[Jessica Hazlitt]

As some of you know I have been having a hard time balancing my primary relationship with being sexually attracted to T. Now, we do use touch in therapy, but it is NEVER inappropriate and has good reason and most importantly is always consciously discussed and reviewed. Understandably my partner finds this a little difficult because he is no longer my only confidant and supporter.

Now about a month ago he went on my lap top through my browser and found a post I had written here about my feelings and fantasies about T. He went mental (in the vernacular sense) but after a long talk and him being referred for individual therapy it was over with. He apologised for snooping and assured me it would never happen again. So yesterday I had a really rough session, after a week of night terrors and seizures as a direct result. I wrote a reply to a thread talking about telling T you love them.

“I've nearly said it quite a few times, but the words always get stuck. For me it's to do with feeling like I'm giving him an opening to hurt me. But I do try to say it in other ways. Today's session ended with us holding hands. I wanted to say I love him, and thank him for being there. As I couldn't speak, I gave him a gentle kiss on the cheek. Unusually it didn't feel awkward or embarrassing, it just seemed right. So I'm pretty sure he knows.”

I was emotionally exhausted by the time I got home so ate and just lay on the sofa trying to process it all. Then I got dressed and left to go to a new volunteer job which I was rather anxious about. Half way there P rand and just yelled down the phone at me. “What do you mean you love him…. AND YOU KISSED HIM!? I had like a twenty minute lecture on being a liar and being untrustworthy and unfaithful. As I neared my job I managed to interrupt him and pointed out firstly and most importantly I have never been unfaithful. In the moment of being vulnerable and on the verge of a seizure, T holding my hands was loving support, and the kiss on the cheek was far from sexual. It was a thanks from my inner-child who needed to be held and just wanted to curl up on his lap, but that would be over-stepping the boundary, so hand holding was a sort of, meeting in the middle. I pointed out to him when I leave my massage therapist (another intimate but professional relationship) we hug and kiss each other on the cheek. This is a rather attractive woman who rubs her hands all over my naked, oily body.

Moreover I sent that post from my phone. So where as last time he just had to open and log into my lap top (which could have been an innocent thing), this time he had to actively search the forums for my latest post. He basically e-stalked me instead of just talking to me. That hurts and really p!sses me off.

My final point was that the only person damaging our relationship by lying and sneaking around the back of the other was him. His excuse was he was worried about me self-harming. I called BS on that. If he had been worried about that he would have asked me face to face as we have done before. I also told him that calling me at that time was purely malicious and I was done talking. I hung up then went to work. When I got home I watched tv in silence. He tried to sit next to me but I said ‘no’. He went to the bedroom to read. When I needed to go to bed I just came in and told him to leave. He spent the night on the sofa. When I got up there was a note on the door (attached below).

I just don’t know what to do. We’ve been together 10 years, but last night proved I can’t trust him. The whole thing makes me wish I saw T sooner. I don’t want him as a friend or partner, I want and need him as my T, now. But now I’ve got to deal with this for a whole week, plus my parents are coming up on Monday. Plus there’s whatever is STILL causing the night terrors.

I don’t have the energy for this…….what do I do?

[SkyscraperMeow]

Honestly, if I were your partner, I would be mad too. I disagree that what's going on between your T and you is acceptable. You see, as much therapy talk is thrown at this, you are physically and emotionally intimate with a man far, far, far beyond the bounds of reasonable therapy.

From this letter, it looks to me like your partner is afraid of losing you and is essentially agreeing to almost anything to keep you. I'd be very, very careful, because most men will run a mile if you attempt this with them. It's a pretty rare guy who would be okay with his partner snuggling with another man in therapy.

I think you run a very real risk of ending up completely alone because you've alienated your partner (possibly broken up with him because you've convinced yourself that there's nothing wrong with a very wrong situation) and eventually this stuff with your T will come to a head and he'll terminate. Snuggling and kissing your therapist will not end well, cannot end well.

Have you thought how this must be killing your partner? How would you feel if he had a female therapist who he cuddled with and loved? Would you actually be okay with that?

You seem really preoccupied with your feelings and what you want and what you need to do and you've managed to make your partner buy into that. But it's pretty obvious that it is wearing thin with him. If he has any kind of spine or self respect, he will eventually bail.

Maybe instead of thinking about how hard done by you are and how hard your life is, you should look at what kind of partner you're being, because right now, I think that 'unfaithful' is actually a pretty good description.

I could not agree less with the previous poster. Your life, your therapy, NONE of your partner's business. I have no advice about what to do, but your partner is completely out of line here and to be honest I think his behaviour is borderline abusive. Online stalking/prying on your personal life is one sign of emotional abuse.

I would not hold hands with my T or kiss him on the cheek, but that's just me. We need different things from therapy. And again, even if your behaviour had been inappropriate (which I don't think it is) it would be none of your partner's business.

[doyoutrustme]

Can you bring your partner to session with you?

[Jessica Hazlitt]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

.

Ok. I am going to take this one bit at a time.

Honestly, if I were your partner, I would be mad too. I disagree that what's going on between your T and you is acceptable. You see, as much therapy talk is thrown at this, you are physically and emotionally intimate with a man far, far, far beyond the bounds of reasonable therapy.

I said I understood why he was upset when it kicked off the first time but after explaining it to him adult to adult he understood. What me and T are doing is acceptable. We have fixed boundaries that yes, maybe set a little further back than some, but are none the less fixed. My T has a supervisor who knows what we do, AND because I see him through a charity the board there are well aware of the way we do things. This also means we see each other in a building full of other people so it’s not like I go and “snuggle” up with him in his home.

From this letter, it looks to me like your partner is afraid of losing you and is essentially agreeing to almost anything to keep you. I'd be very, very careful, because most men will run a mile if you attempt this with them. It's a pretty rare guy who would be okay with his partner snuggling with another man in therapy.


I know that that’s his fear, because he knows how hurt I was last time he betrayed my trust. He would not do anything to keep me either. If I slept with T he would be off. Also at no point did I say anything about snuggling up. Me ant T are very explicit that the touch is not about sitting cuddling for the hour. It’s been proven to help in countless ways with the process and help prevent dissociation -> seizures.

I think you run a very real risk of ending up completely alone because you've alienated your partner (possibly broken up with him because you've convinced yourself that there's nothing wrong with a very wrong situation) and eventually this stuff with your T will come to a head and he'll terminate. Snuggling and kissing your therapist will not end well, cannot end well.

I really hate that you refer to it as a ‘very wrong’ situation. Love is a very important part of therapy, not sex or being in love, just warm, caring love. I didn’t passionately kiss T. It was a hug and kiss on the cheek that I do countless times a day with certain colleagues, customers, basically people who have made my day a little brighter. I once asked T what he would do if I did kiss him passionately on the face, and if it would mean termination. After much thought he said that he would resist (non-violently), and would rather talk about it than run away from the situation. He said it would only result in termination if he participated.


Have you thought how this must be killing your partner? How would you feel if he had a female therapist who he cuddled with and loved? Would you actually be okay with that?

Firstly, I only ever started going to therapy for my P. I went through years of horrific CBT before finally finding my current T who actually treats me like a person. He does have a therapist, a female one and if he came home and said he had kissed her (in the way I kissed mine) I would be fine. I would be happy if he felt that sort of love too, although his parents are lovely so I’m guessing its not something new to him. I also know that there a people we both know who he finds sexually attractive, who he’s hugged and cuddled. But he’s not in love with them so it’s ok. Same as me and T.


You seem really preoccupied with your feelings and what you want and what you need to do and you've managed to make your partner buy into that. But it's pretty obvious that it is wearing thin with him. If he has any kind of spine or self respect, he will eventually bail.

Maybe instead of thinking about how hard done by you are and how hard your life is, you should look at what kind of partner you're being, because right now, I think that 'unfaithful' is actually a pretty good description.

The whole point of me going to psychotherapy was to become in touch with my feelings and to realise that they are just as valid and as important as anyone else’s, because all my life I’ve had people saying I should focus on ‘the other’ and not ‘the self’. So if that’s how it’s coming across then say what you want about me and T, but it must be working. I think for anyone to leave a relationship of any length because their partner finds another person attractive is rather childish. He would be leaving out of fear rather than anything real.
I am being far from unfaithful. I don’t have sexual contact with T. If it was anything else then why would I have openly told P about it in the first place? Me and T have absolutely no out of session contact. He has a partner. I do everything at home as I have always done and me and Ps sex life is on the up. Excluding my poor health my contribution to the relationship is probably better than ever as I am able to express myself, even if it’s not always about ‘nice’ stuff.

[Jessica Hazlitt]

Originally Posted by Mastodon

I could not agree less with the previous poster. Your life, your therapy, NONE of your partner's business. I have no advice about what to do, but your partner is completely out of line here and to be honest I think his behaviour is borderline abusive. Online stalking/prying on your personal life is one sign of emotional abuse.

I would not hold hands with my T or kiss him on the cheek, but that's just me. We need different things from therapy. And again, even if your behaviour had been inappropriate (which I don't think it is) it would be none of your partner's business.

Thanks. Yeah I know the touch thing is unusual, but like the hand holding is something that happens only if I'm on the verge of a seizure. the active holding keeps my mind focused. As such it only happens during really rough sessions.

My main problem is my only support network is T and usually P (who is also my best friend) so I just dunno where to go. My family are all f/up (hence the therapy) .... urgh.

[Jessica Hazlitt]

Originally Posted by doyoutrustme

Can you bring your partner to session with you?

I asked about this a while back but T didn't think it would be good to bring people into our safe place. Instead my T got another T to answer Ps concerns (that way there was no doubt that it was honest answers) and after that the lady T decided P needed therapy. Something I said to him after the first time he kicked off was, to me, his reaction showed that he has underlying issues. Turns out this was true. I'm glad he has a T and really hope he can have as an effective relationship with her as I have with my T (even if that involves touch, hugs and love).

[musinglizzy]

Originally Posted by doyoutrustme

Can you bring your partner to session with you?

That's a really good idea. I think you ought to try that. I can understand your partner feeling threatened. I really can. That doesn't make his actions right, but he surely seems to feel remorse, and is trying to make it up to you. That was a sweet letter.

[missbella]

It breaks my heart when I see a therapy relationship breaking up a real one. Therapy is role-playing. I would hope that a goal of a therapy relationship would be to enhance the actual one, not to undermine it.

My sympathies also are with your partner. What you describe sounds every bit with like an emotional affair. Your energies, loyalties and intimacy all seems tilted toward the therapist. (There's quite a bit of reading on that topic.) You mean, if you put yourself in your partner's shoes, you'd be hunky-dory if roles were reversed?

Therapists can have huge vanity and bask in the adoration. But it's paid, time limited and role playing. You mean, if you blow up your real life for this paid relationship, you'd be gloriously satisfied? Because that's the course you seem to be on.

Different people,different day, but I saw an extremely warm,extremely devoted relationship blown apart seemingly to give a busy-body therapist something to do. (This is a friend in my real life.) Therapist and client pulled him in for a session, ganged up and hen-pecked him. The marriage and very cheerful, loyal husband was fault-finded to death. I was silently neutral and the friend threw me out of her life as well.

[missbella]

deleted......

[Parva]

Originally Posted by Jessica Hazlitt

Thanks. Yeah I know the touch thing is unusual, but like the hand holding is something that happens only if I'm on the verge of a seizure. the active holding keeps my mind focused. As such it only happens during really rough sessions.

My main problem is my only support network is T and usually P (who is also my best friend) so I just dunno where to go. My family are all f/up (hence the therapy) .... urgh.

It's not unusual. It's what you need. We all need to be in therapy, or...we wouldn't be there. If you need to hold hands to survive another day, then hold hands. Hug if you need to. Simple human affection can be healing in it's own way.

[stopdog]

As a practical matter, I would start protecting my computer/phone/other devices with a password so that no one else could use it or get to my browsing history or writings etc. Second I might see about a couples therapist. Therapy can threaten personal relationships even without any erotic transference. I believe one should able to fantasize and write about the fantasy all they want and it is no one else's business, not even a partner.

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by missbella

It breaks my heart when I see a therapy relationship breaking up a real one. Therapy is role-playing. I would hope that a goal of a therapy relationship would be to enhance the actual one, not to undermine it.

My sympathies also are with your partner. What you describe sounds every bit with like an emotional affair. Your energies, loyalties and intimacy all seems tilted toward the therapist. (There's quite a bit of reading on that topic.) You mean, if you put yourself in your partner's shoes, you'd be hunky-dory if roles were reversed?

Therapists can have huge vanity and bask in the adoration. But it's paid, time limited and role playing. You mean, if you blow up your real life for this paid relationship, you'd be gloriously satisfied? Because that's the course you seem to be on.

I completely agree. I understand the lying and sneaking around is unacceptable, but I also completely understand your partner's concern, jealousy and anger. Seems like an unfortunate situation here.

[Jessica Hazlitt]

Originally Posted by Parva

It's not unusual. It's what you need. We all need to be in therapy, or...we wouldn't be there. If you need to hold hands to survive another day, then hold hands. Hug if you need to. Simple human affection can be healing in it's own way.

THANKYOU!!!

Every-time I post something...ANYTHING in which I mention touch it always descends into a barrage of 'that's wrong' 'unethical' etc etc etc.

If there were no boundaries I would go in and sit on his knee and curl up in his arms like a scared child. But there are boundaries that we both respect. T has rarely (if ever) instigates touch. By meeting me in the middle like holding my hand he is letting me know I'm accepted and is regognising my need, but it also acts like a barrier, non-aggressive restraint. If he is holding my hand I cant put my arm around him to hug him or anything else that might feel like 'a next step'. This we discuss, the hand holding we discuss.

I am so glad that someone else gets it and sees it as the therapeutic tool that it is. Your post means a lot to me.

[Jessica Hazlitt]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

I completely agree. I understand the lying and sneaking around is unacceptable, but I also completely understand your partner's concern, jealousy and anger. Seems like an unfortunate situation here.

I also understand his concern, but when it first happened we talked about it for like 2 days straight. He said he understood and promised me he would never betray my trust again, as I said I would never his. I explained it to him in terms of the difference between thinking and doing. I may think about meeting T outside session and sleeping with him, but I never would. However Ps actions are active doing. Just thinking about e-stalking me or logging onto my personal devices in a sneaky way is one thing. He could have told me he wanted to do that but decided to ask me upfront instead. That I would have respected and been totally open with him, as I have always been But he didn't. He went behind by back.

The annoying thing about the situation here is that being in touch with my feelings and being open and honest (what I went to therapy to achieve) has severely bitten me in the arse. I hope now P has a T he will be able to understand it a bit better.

[Jessica Hazlitt]

Originally Posted by missbella

It breaks my heart when I see a therapy relationship breaking up a real one. Therapy is role-playing. I would hope that a goal of a therapy relationship would be to enhance the actual one, not to undermine it.

My sympathies also are with your partner. What you describe sounds every bit with like an emotional affair. Your energies, loyalties and intimacy all seems tilted toward the therapist. (There's quite a bit of reading on that topic.) You mean, if you put yourself in your partner's shoes, you'd be hunky-dory if roles were reversed?

Therapists can have huge vanity and bask in the adoration. But it's paid, time limited and role playing. You mean, if you blow up your real life for this paid relationship, you'd be gloriously satisfied? Because that's the course you seem to be on.

Different people,different day, but I saw an extremely warm,extremely devoted relationship blown apart seemingly to give a busy-body therapist something to do. (This is a friend in my real life.) Therapist and client pulled him in for a session, ganged up and hen-pecked him. The marriage and very cheerful, loyal husband was fault-finded to death. I was silently neutral and the friend threw me out of her life as well.

Please read other posts, I can't say it enough. I'm not IN love with my therapist. I know its a professional relationship, we do have fixed boundaries, we always talk about the touch we do do and that which we would like to.
etc etc.....not going over it all again.

[BayBrony]

I think his behavior is ridiculous.
I'm a gay woman with a female therapist. I'd be appalled if my wife reacted like this. I love my T deeply, just like I love other people in my life deeply. An emotionally heal thy partner does not view every other intimate relationship as a threat. A kiss on the cheek is not "kissing someone else". I kiss my best friend on the cheek every time I see her. In front of my wife even.
It's ridiculous for him to react that way. You can love him and your T.
I don't understand the "emotional affair" stuff...The whole POINT of therapy is to.shate your deepest thoughts and feelings. Who else would you share that with????

[LonesomeTonight]

I've been there, so I understand. It's tough. My H has struggled at times with the transference I feel for our marriage counselor, which now is mostly paternal, but at first seemed mostly erotic. When I first told MC of my feelings back in March, I went to an individual session with him to discuss it. This was cleared with H first, and apparently H went online (not on here) to search for reasons why I might want an individual session. The main things he found were that I was having an affair with someone and wanted to tell MC to figure out what to do or that I had feelings and/or transference for MC. After the individual session, I got lunch with H. MC had suggested ways I could share with H the basics of what we'd talked about without actually saying I had transference. So I started by telling H that MC and I had talked about my need to feel safe and secure. I started saying something else, and H was like, "So you had feelings for him and wanted to talk to him about them." And I was like...um...yeah.

H did his best to be understanding. It helped H that we had a joint session the following Monday--definitely one of the most awkward therapy sessions of my life! But, without breaching my confidentiality (asking my permission before he'd mention certain things and keeping the erotic part out of the discussion), MC helped explain what transference was to H and how it didn't mean that I no longer had feelings for H or that I wanted to be with MC instead of him. MC also emphasized that I was not romantically pursuing him, that he wasn't pursuing me, that nothing would or could happen between us. MC said he knew that H might understand all that intellectually, but not necessarily emotionally/in his gut. MC said if he was in H's situation, he might feel hurt or threatened too (as I said, this was a horribly awkward session). So I think hearing MC explain it really helped H to understand and feel less threatened.

It's not like everything was smooth sailing since then, though. A couple times, I'd try to be open with H about what I was feeling regarding MC, and H would seem OK with it, then maybe a week or so later tell me how it really stung/upset him. And then at one point, I confessed to MC that I loved him (at this point, had realized it was mostly paternal feelings, not romantic/erotic). We ended up discussing that in session too. Things were mostly OK (that was a couple months ago). Then there was the 3 a.m. text I sent to MC a couple weekend ago where I talked about feeling lonely and wishing I could hear his voice. Ended up showing H the text, and we talked about it in session. It started a discussion in session on how I often didn't feel comfortable opening up to H. There were some painful moments there, including one point when H said he thought I was inching towards the door in our relationship. But then it led to more discussion about issues that I had, rather than just stuff about him. So it was ultimately a good discussion.

So I second a suggestion on here that you try some couples counseling. I was initially going to say you should take P to a session with you, but that might be a bad idea. If he sees how you and T interact, it could make him feel less threatened, but it also might make him more threatened. He also might be like, "What do you see in him?" So I think that might be too risky.

I think the reason that H was open to listening to MC about my feelings was that we'd already been seeing him for a year, and H liked and trusted him. If it was just my T he'd never met, and then I invited him in for a session, he'd probably react a bit differently. So I think you should pursue couples counseling with an outside person, even if just for a few sessions to work through what you're feeling and to help your P understand about transference and how therapist-client relationships can be very intimate but not actually be a threat to a romantic relationship. Plus to address the trust issues. I also think it's good your P is seeing a therapist of his own--my H had never been in therapy before, so I don't think he has the understanding of how intense the relationship with a T can be (I've seen my share of T's off and on).

I hope everything works out for you and P. He might just need a little time to process what's going on, too...

[atisketatasket]

It's like the break-up of my first marriage. He started snooping into my email and Skype accounts - he was convinced I was talking about him behind his back with my friends and family. So that part was wrong, and it's a trust-breaker for sure. (Also a good lesson in using passwords.)

That said, to some extent I agree with those who are saying that it is not a partner's business what goes on in therapy - but I would say that applies only to what is TALKED about in therapy. The instant touch and erotic transference enter the picture, I would want to know as a partner, whether the therapist is the same sex or not. Because it does affect the relationship. I am unclear as to whether you told him or whether he found out from PC, but if it's the latter, that was not a good way to find out.

I have seen a few friends have emotional affairs. This does look like one. You don't have to be IN love to have one.

I agree with the suggestion about couples counseling.

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[stopdog]

For some, emotional affair is what therapy is about (I don't really think it is the right term but I am using it as it seems familiar as a concept). I don't think it is wrong. It may not be how I use therapy, but I don't think it is wrong if it is.

[guilloche]

Jessica...

So, is he currently still seeing his own therapist? It sounds like he needs to be, from what he wrote. The idea that he was getting a lot of his self-esteem from being the sole person in your life that you could depend on is something that he might need help working through. Honestly, to me, his letter sounds like he's quite invested in being THE caregiver, and that's why you confiding in a therapist is so hard on him.

What he did was wrong. But, it sounds like he's owning that in the letter. Is that the sense that you're getting in person? Or, is this typical behavior for him - to do something like this, then apology profusely?

If it's a pattern, I'd probably bring that into therapy and think about whether that's a relationship you want to continue. If it's NOT a pattern, I think you can figure out a way to go forward from this.

But, definitely, look at putting passwords or other security measures on your accounts. I think this is something that's going to be hard for him to resist, and it's better to make it impossible for him to snoop, rather than asking him to exercise the willpower to not do it. Kind of like not leaving cookies in the house when someone is trying to diet!

For the record, I don't think you're doing anything wrong in your therapy either. The kissing is not part of my culture, my friends don't greet each other wish kisses, but it sounds like that's normal for you and your social group, and it sounds non-sexual. As you said, it's not leading up to any passionate moments, and it's more childlike. I, personally, think the hand holding sounds wonderful and supportive and calming. I'd probably freak out if my therapist tried that with me and become less grounded, but I can see how it can be helpful, and if it's stopping you from having seizures (!), then I don't think it's a bad thing at all.

Perhaps one thing you and your partner could discuss is... how you being in therapy actually enhances your relationship with him? Because, I'm guessing it does? For example, do you find yourself more open and willing to share, more able to be compassionate, more loving, more willing to try new things?

Good luck and I hope you're able to work all this out...

[Jessica Hazlitt]

The love me and T have is more like a blend of child to parent, that between good friends, that of colleagues .... I really don't feel like its an emotional affair. Until P started acting disrespectfully towards me, he was still my primary confident, but his recent actions have forced me away in that sense. I don't think of T constantly or have that sense of wanting to hoard his love. I think it's great that he has this with other clients, and am sure he offers some touch to whoever needs it (as an oppose to whoever wants it).

T and I have been using touch (at the same level) for over a year and a half. I told P about it from the very beginning. In fact P was with me the first time I saw T (who was then just a stranger in a street near our friend) when I said I thought he was hot. (Before ppl kick off I didn't then pick T as I was attracted to him, I hadn't even applied for therapy then. I didn't even know T was a T. I was randomly allocated 1 of 90 Ts through a charity,and it just happened to be him. If I had wanted to change it was going to take another 6 months, by which time we had developed a very strong working relationship, and the attraction didn't affect us).

Couples counseling may be an option later on. I want to give P time to experience personal therapy so he has a more stable foundation to work on as a couple. I have reset all my passwords, but unfortunately like I said he searched the forum on his PC. Extra creepy. Can't believe I'm having to do this.

[Petra5ed]

I think his note was really sweet. Everyone makes mistakes. It's got to be hard for him from a jealousy standpoint to know how you feel about your therapist.

You have a great guy there. I cant imagine my husband ever opening up and writing me a note like that. My husband is oblivious to my feelings for my therapist. I even told him once that I felt closer to my therapist than anyone else on Earth, and his response was to mumble something like "that's good." LOL, ironic isn't it. You are mad your husband is jealous and snooping, and I am hurt beyond words that mine isn't and could care less!!

[divine1966]

I think that snooping is wrong on every level. You can write private things and he doesn't need to know it.

But I can only speak for myself here. I would hope that therapy helps me to build and improve better healthier relationships and friendships in our every day life ( or other aspects of our life). And it does that for me. I am finally with healthier man having healthier relationship and my t played role in it.

I kind of worry that your therapy is making your real life relationship worse not better? I wonder if you two benefit from couples therapy? Not with your t of course but the one that specializes in marriage and couples etc have you two talked about couples therapy? How much do you value your partner and your life together?

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[nottrustin]

You mention that you're relationship is like that of a parent/child, friends and colleagues and that you kiss kiss all these people on a daily basis as will as customers. I get all that. However how many of these people are you sexually attracted to? For ME that is THE difference. Yes there are people hug even of a different sex. However I wouldn't if I was sexually attracted to them. I would never do something with another person I felt I had to hide from my husband.