[peaches100]

It's one of those days when I'm feeling quite cynical about the therapy relationship. . .yeah, cynical and frustrated I get this way sometimes, and it usually doesn't last. But this is going to sound mighty negative, so I caution anybody who doesn't want to have doubts creep in to their minds about their own relationship with their t's, it may be best not to read this. I do not want to trigger anybody or undermine their confidence in their t's. This is my opinion only. I could be wrong. Let those who are strong enough to consider these words and withstand any discomfort it causes read on. . .

I've been in therapy for 10+ years, a long time I know. Too long, embarrassing really. But I guess it shows the extent of my problems. Unfortunately, one of my biggest problems is related to becoming attached to people who at best, are emotionally unavailable and can't reciprocate my feelings of love and attachment OR I become attached to people who use the relationship in a way that exploits me or serves some need they have. This sets up a dynamic where I become very attached to the person and the relationship I have with them, while they are not attached to me personally, but to what they gain by means of the relationship with me. It's not really about "me," because they would form a similar relationship with anybody else who could produce the same need, goal, or result for them.

As an example, my neighbor who tricked me into believing he genuinely loved me, in order to SA me. Or the friend who volunteered to help me during my depression, not because she loved me, but because she was passionate about "women's issues," and her own unresolved feelings about her own divorce drove her to get too personally involved in the marital disputes of others. In both of these situations, the person who formed a "relationship" with me was not interested in me as a person, but in what creating the illusion of a relationship would do for them. They could just as easily create a "relationship" with anybody else in my situation who was vulnerable in the same way I was. The "relationship" was not a relationship, it was a means to an end, and it was not "personal" in the way I was fooled into thinking it was.

OK - so having gone through multiple scenarios like this in my lifetime, I finally have a breakdown and enter psychotherapy to find help.

You can probably imagine the struggle I've had when it comes to trusting my therapist or believing that she has a genuine interest in, affection for, or attachment to me. I've been fooled too many times in my life by people who used kind words and performed so-called caring acts. I've resisted letting my heart get involved with my t, or letting myself feel too close or like I need her in my life. I have burst any balloons of hope that have risen in me that our relationship is anything other than a business relationship in which she dispenses information and skills to help my life in exchange for a fee.

But guess what? Because of my deep attachment wounds, I still have a part of me that wants to hope, believe, that maybe this time, there is someone who truly is capable of loving and caring about me the way my mom never could. And DAMN IT! Try as hard as I may, I can't extinguish that pie-in-the-sky hope! Even though, deep down in my heart, I know that eventually, if I ride that exhilarating balloon ride, I am going to come crashing down. And every time I attach to someone and come crashing down, I am more deeply damaged than before.

So. . .at the beginning, therapy starts out well. My t seems to genuinely be concerned about me situation and want to help me. She seems compassionate about my pain, and seems to understand my situation. As I talk to her about it, she listens carefully and makes relevant replies that show me she is tuned into what I'm saying. She assesses my problems and we come up with a workable plan for therapy. For awhile, I feel a sense of relief and, could it be, even a tiny spark of joy? Each time I feel it arise, I try to extinguish it. I can't afford to get attached to someone again who can't reciprocate my loving feelings. But as she shows compassion and kindness, it gets more and more difficult not to become emotionally tied up in the relationship and begin entertaining false hopes.

What I don't realize at the time (or perhaps don't want to realize) is that the therapy relationship itself isn't really a personal relationship either. It is more like a "vehicle for change." The therapy relationship is a contrived business relationship that is formed in order to make a patient feel loved and cared for, so that this contrived relationship can be used to foster necessary changes in the patient's life. For the patient with attachment problems who comes to therapy, it DOES seem to hold promise of finally being the relationship where the patient can be truly known and loved. But for the therapist, the therapy relationship is more of a "tool" they use to produce a healing result.

I'm not doubting that for many patients, it is helpful and maybe even a lifeline in times of crisis. But there still seems to be an element of pretend, or of dishonesty, in the way the therapy relationship is constructed. After all, how can an actual genuine relationship of love and trust develop inside the rigid framework of therapy? It is a relationship that takes place only on a certain day, at a certain time of day, in a certain place, for a certain fee. It is a relationship in which the past and present experiences of the patient converge in some undefinable symbolic place and then disappear when the therapy hour is over. It does not take very long for the attached but astute patient to realize something is amiss. This is not a "relationship" as they have come to view relationships.

As they feel more attached to the therapist, they want to tap into what feels like a loving, caring relationship by contacting them outside sessions, bringing them gifts, or admitting feelings of love. But any attempts to tap into that caring relationship via text message or phone call outside the specified hour is overtly denied or covertly discouraged. If the patient has had a very difficult time opening up and sharing their feelings, to be told by the t, "I'd rather you didn't contact me outside the therapy hour" can really hurt.

In addition, expressions of affection and attachment made by the patient are not reciprocated by the therapist. When the patient has an extremely difficult time in a therapy session, the therapist often doesn't actively try to comfort the patient. They don't phone or email afterwards to find out if the patient is OK. Emails messages between caring friends often contain an "opening" and "closing" statement, such as "Dear So-and-So" and "Love So-and-So," or even "With warm thoughts." But emails from the t lack are stark in their lack of such personal statements of affection.

Thankfully, in the therapy relationship, if the therapist is a good one, they are doing this with an honest intention of helping the patient, and not getting some kind of a feather in their ego cap. They really do want to help the patient feel better. But in creating a false sense of intimacy and caring, they elicit powerful needs from the patient that come from past unmet childhood needs. It can be devastating for a patient to confront such buried painful needs in therapy, only to realize that, in a way similar to their childhood, the therapist does not intend to meet those needs.

Instead, the goal seems to be that the therapist rips off the scab to the wounds, where they then bleed profusely, while the therapist makes no attempt to stop the bleeding or apply a bandage. Rather, they tell the patient, "There are bandages in this drawer, which you can use to stop the bleeding." Or they may advise, "You might consider purchasing a knee pad and use it when you roller blade to prevent getting such a wound in the first place." But skills, advice, and tools are different than love and caring. Skills, advice, and tools are things the therapist "offers," but love and caring are things that people "share and feel."

If the therapist's goal is to use the relationship as a tool to enact desired changes in a patient's life. . .but the patient's goal or need IS the therapy relationship itself. . .such dynamics can become deeply entrenched patterns that repeat in therapy and lead to further suffering for the patient, rather than healing.

[unaluna]

I dont know if this applies to you, but what made the difference for me was - i actually had to take the ts advice and get rid of the person in my life that was making life unbearable for me. I couldnt have my cake and eat it too.

This might open a whole new can of worms - does seeing a t mean you MUST leave your spouse Or your family of origin? We have examples on pc where that is NOT true, but if it is true - should we shoot the messenger??,

[atisketatasket]

I am in almost total agreement with you about the basic nature of the therapeutic relationship. It is a business relationship with a few potentially nasty (as well as helpful) twists. One of mine even told me last week that I needed to be more attached for it to work - she even admitted, unsolicited, to practicing the right-brain stuff stopdog often mentions. I am not sure where the line between "help" and "manipulation" is in therapy anymore.

I'm not saying this to bash therapists or therapy, I know plenty of people who have found it helpful and even I find it helpful, unattached as I am. But it's a conundrum.

All that said, I am a little confused about your last paragraph. Why is the patient's goal or need the therapy relationship itself? Do you mean it becomes that way or that a patient actually enters therapy with that goal in mind?

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by peaches100

What I don't realize at the time (or perhaps don't want to realize) is that the therapy relationship itself isn't really a personal relationship either. It is more like a "vehicle for change." The therapy relationship is a contrived business relationship that is formed in order to make a patient feel loved and cared for, so that this contrived relationship can be used to foster necessary changes in the patient's life. For the patient with attachment problems who comes to therapy, it DOES seem to hold promise of finally being the relationship where the patient can be truly known and loved. But for the therapist, the therapy relationship is more of a "tool" they use to produce a healing result.

I'm not doubting that for many patients, it is helpful and maybe even a lifeline in times of crisis. But there still seems to be an element of pretend, or of dishonesty, in the way the therapy relationship is constructed. After all, how can an actual genuine relationship of love and trust develop inside the rigid framework of therapy? It is a relationship that takes place only on a certain day, at a certain time of day, in a certain place, for a certain fee. It is a relationship in which the past and present experiences of the patient converge in some undefinable symbolic place and then disappear when the therapy hour is over. It does not take very long for the attached but astute patient to realize something is amiss. This is not a "relationship" as they have come to view relationships.

As they feel more attached to the therapist, they want to tap into what feels like a loving, caring relationship by contacting them outside sessions, bringing them gifts, or admitting feelings of love. But any attempts to tap into that caring relationship via text message or phone call outside the specified hour is overtly denied or covertly discouraged. If the patient has had a very difficult time opening up and sharing their feelings, to be told by the t, "I'd rather you didn't contact me outside the therapy hour" can really hurt.

In addition, expressions of affection and attachment made by the patient are not reciprocated by the therapist. When the patient has an extremely difficult time in a therapy session, the therapist often doesn't actively try to comfort the patient. They don't phone or email afterwards to find out if the patient is OK. Emails messages between caring friends often contain an "opening" and "closing" statement, such as "Dear So-and-So" and "Love So-and-So," or even "With warm thoughts." But emails from the t lack are stark in their lack of such personal statements of affection.

Thankfully, in the therapy relationship, if the therapist is a good one, they are doing this with an honest intention of helping the patient, and not getting some kind of a feather in their ego cap. They really do want to help the patient feel better. But in creating a false sense of intimacy and caring, they elicit powerful needs from the patient that come from past unmet childhood needs. It can be devastating for a patient to confront such buried painful needs in therapy, only to realize that, in a way similar to their childhood, the therapist does not intend to meet those needs.

Instead, the goal seems to be that the therapist rips off the scab to the wounds, where they then bleed profusely, while the therapist makes no attempt to stop the bleeding or apply a bandage. Rather, they tell the patient, "There are bandages in this drawer, which you can use to stop the bleeding." Or they may advise, "You might consider purchasing a knee pad and use it when you roller blade to prevent getting such a wound in the first place." But skills, advice, and tools are different than love and caring. Skills, advice, and tools are things the therapist "offers," but love and caring are things that people "share and feel."

If the therapist's goal is to use the relationship as a tool to enact desired changes in a patient's life. . .but the patient's goal or need IS the therapy relationship itself. . .such dynamics can become deeply entrenched patterns that repeat in therapy and lead to further suffering for the patient, rather than healing.

I just want to state that in my therapeutic relationship, some of those things you say aren't allowed or are discouraged do occur. Each therapeutic relationship and partnership is unique I think and some therapists are able to be much more giving than others. And that I experience my therapy as bounded, but certainly not false! I'm so glad to have a sincere interaction with my therapist. Our disagreements are some proof of that, lol, she's not there to simply appease me, to be just a construct, though she is there to help and does.

And what happens for me during therapy definitely doesn't disappear when the session is over.

I'm sorry you're having such a long, tough go through therapy. I understand from many posts, some very similar to yours, that the constraints of therapy make it untenable for some people, understandably. I wonder if for you, after giving it a long, earnest effort it sounds like, if other ways of approaching life's challenges might be more healing and helpful?

I know a relatively small subset of the population chooses therapy and some other subsets find what they need in spirituality, in support groups, in medication, in self-help, in creating a diverse community (like volunteering or joining meetups or other ways) or in some combination of those and other things-- and that if something seems so deeply flawed to a person... perhaps another avenue might be more productive? I love therapy and find it deeply helpful, compelling, rewarding, also challenging and painful, but it isn't one size fits all.

P.S. You mention this might be a temporary feeling you're having, so I wonder... if you do intend to stay in or return to therapy- can you share all of this with your therapist. I find it deeply revealing and helpful, if not easy, when I've shared such things.

[SkyscraperMeow]

From what I can tell, peaches, you may just be seeing the wrong kind of therapist. While some operate the way you have described, plenty do not. I would never, ever, ever see a therapist who refused all forms of contact after the session. Though I too, struggle with therapy at times, my therapist is prepared to help me outside the set session times if it seems needed. Some people's therapists offer all different kinds of support outside session time too.

I completely relate to your experience of feeling as though people only form relationships with you because they suit some practical means. And I totally understand how that wound is made worse in some ways by therapy because it seems to replicate that all over again.

Maybe it's time to consider a different kind of therapy, or a different kind of social support?

[divine1966]

I entered therapy for exact same reason as you. Attraction to unavailable people and desire to break the cycle ( also secondary issue of overspending and anxiety over finances)

But I didn't expect my t to love me or form true relationship with me. I had no plans to feel closeness to t. Maybe because I never knew it's possible of needed? I needed somebody knowledgable to help me figure out why I am attracted to such people how can I recognize when it happens ( sooner than years later) and what qualities I should be looking for.

Could you work on personal relationship issues and not be attached to t?

I don't think therapy is fake relationship but it's different than real life relationships. It's not business relationship for me per se but it's similar to my relationship with my gyn. I trust him to provide the best care he can. I totally trust his advice and opinion. I have some gyn issues so it is important to have good gyn. I know him for many years. But I don't think of him loving me or attaching to me. It's kind of like it.

My t does great job helping me find the way to healthy relationships. But with other people not with her.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rainbow8]

Peaches, I'm sorry you are feeling so negative about therapy. When I was seeing my first T, I wrote an essay that I called The Transference Web. It was about the same subject as your thread. I attached strongly to her but never got the chance to detach slowly. I understand your feelings 100%.

It seems like you are forgetting that your T does let you email her, or were you generalizing? I also think that she would be more of the person you want her to be but you don't let her. She would hug you or hold your hand but you're afraid that would make you more dependent. It's also not true that Ts are only there for clients in the hour and when they get paid.

I don't know if my T is unusual. Perhaps she is. More and more she is giving me what I want and need from her, but she says she is not crossing boundaries. She doesn't say "I love you" but she signs her emails "love". She sends me links to articles she thinks I might like. She came to my H's funeral and to my house. She is acting more like a friend/mother to me and when I question her she admits she is nice! Yet she's totally professional. I know we aren't friends but I know our relationship is NOT just for the hour. It's not reciprocal but it's mutual, if that makes any sense. I told her yesterday that I don't have to make up anything about her, or want more, because she's giving it to me! I don't know why I didn't feel that way all the time with her. Or maybe she changed as she got to know me better.

I wish I knew the answer for you. I always suggest seeing another T, even if just for a consultation. Would you ever consider doing that? Not talking about the past anymore may be the answer. What does your T think would help you? I know you've talked about it with her. Besides trying SE? I want you to feel good! I hope you can figure out, with T's help, what's best for you!!

[Bipolar Warrior]

Divine, I was just like you in that I went into therapy with no expectations of attachment. For two years I thought very little about it, but then things took a different turn.

My private therapist, who I have been seeing for over two and a half years, is someone I feel no particular attachment to. I like her, she's a lovely person, but I haven't attached to her. My university therapist (mentor), a woman I have known for seven months, is now a person who I love to a somewhat troubling extent. Having been in therapy for two years already when the university assigned me to her, I thought I knew what I was going into, but I was wrong, because this time I was met by a completely different person.

In the beginning she sort of scared me, but I realised that the reason why she scared me was how well she seemed to be able to read me, like she could see right through me or something. She was forcing me to look at things I had suppressed for years, because she wasn't having any of my crap. I cannot lie to her, not even a little, because she knows.

However, she is also very kind, and loving, which scares me even more, because I am not someone who attaches easily. That's why I didn't think attachment in therapy was going to be a problem at all, but this woman is relentless. She just won't stop saying all these loving and nurturing things that make me despair and recoil, and now, due to her persistence, there is a small pathetic part of me that really needs it. I say pathetic because that is what it feels like to me.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it really depends on the therapist - the person - you are seeing, and how you connect with each other. I have struggled with the "should I or should I not continue to see this person I am now overly attached to?" question, in fact I still do, but every time I reach the same conclusion: this woman helps me. Yeah, sure, I am stupidly attached to her, but so what? The most important thing is that she has made me aware of my harmful scripts and my unsustainable self-bullying, and that she continues to point out things I really need to hear.

Peaches, I can really relate to some of the things you are saying. Therapy is very hard, and sometimes confusing, and what it comes down to is whether the help you are receiving is worth the inner struggle it has created due to feeling that the relationship is "wrong". Only you can determine that. Like some of the others have said, you could consider seeing a different therapist, maybe try a different style of therapy, until you find the right fit. There are many options. It does sound like you need to find someone who can help you work through your attachment issues, including your attachment to them, and I'm sure you can find that person, if you are willing to look. It will take time and be frustrating as hell, but hopefully it will be worth it.

Good luck!

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by hankster

I dont know if this applies to you, but what made the difference for me was - i actually had to take the ts advice and get rid of the person in my life that was making life unbearable for me. I couldnt have my cake and eat it too.

This might open a whole new can of worms - does seeing a t mean you MUST leave your spouse Or your family of origin? We have examples on pc where that is NOT true, but if it is true - should we shoot the messenger??,

Hi Hankster,

I must have explained this wrong. My t didn't suggest that I leave my husband. It was a former friend of mine who offered to help me with my depression (sort of took on a "therapist" role, which was a disaster)! Anyway, it was this former friend who wanted me to leave my husband. My t thinks my husband is good for me, just a little bit too protective perhaps. (He's a troubleshooter type and tends to take too much responsibility for fixing my problems, when he really only needs to be supportive, not try so hard to solve it!)

Now when it comes to my family of origin, my t does not view them as having been blatantly abusive. She does think that they were emotionally neglectful, that my dad was very critical and psychologically abusive when he drank. She also says my mom has narcissistic qualities.

But part of the problem was also that I was born very sensitive and needed parents who were much more involved and nurturing with me, more involved in my life, and not just left to raise myself and figure everything out on my own. I was different than my older sister and needed to be treated differently. But my parents didn't know anything about child raising.

My t said my parents and I were just "a very bad fit." She has not urged me to cut contact with them, but she has talked to me a lot about not being so easy to take the blame onto myself for being the "black sheep" of my family and my parents not showing the sort of loving interest in me that many parents do. It has been really hard for me to understand that the problem could potentially be with them, instead of me. I have always felt deep down that there was something very wrong or flawed about me if my parents didn't seem to love me. I mean, it just seems weird. . .usually parent-child bonding goes deep, especially between mother and daughter. But it just never happened with my mom and I, and even less with my dad and I.

[Sannah]

Hi Peaches,

A person can choose to be around people who are self absorbed & won't notice them. A person can do this because they have low self worth & don't want to be seen. When a person feels bad about themselves, being noticed is painful. I don't know if you have low self worth or not, just sharing an idea. A fear of intimacy can cause a person to choose unavailable people too.

This fits with your mom. If she is narcissistic this is what you are used to & you just might be following the pattern.

Good luck to you figuring this out.

[CantExplain]

I would have welcomed being told which drawer the bandages were in. Madame T didn't teach me any skills.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I dont know if this applies to you, but what made the difference for me was - i actually had to take the ts advice and get rid of the person in my life that was making life unbearable for me. I couldnt have my cake and eat it too.

This might open a whole new can of worms - does seeing a t mean you MUST leave your spouse Or your family of origin? We have examples on pc where that is NOT true, but if it is true - should we shoot the messenger??,

Hi Unaluna,

I probably was confusing in my message. My t doesn't want me to leave my husband. It was a former friend of mine who did. My h and I did have some serious problems early on, but we both went to individual therapy for several years, and it helped greatly!

My t would never tell me not to see my family of origin, but I think she wants me to be able to spend time with them without being triggered because of the dynamics of the past, where I have always been viewed as the black sheep of the family.

It's hard to change family dynamics that have been in place for decades. Once a person has fixed in their mind what they think somebody else is like, it seems impossible to shift them from that viewpoint. So my biggest challenge is how to spend time with my parents when they come to town without getting those automatic feelings of being "not good enough."

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I am in almost total agreement with you about the basic nature of the therapeutic relationship. It is a business relationship with a few potentially nasty (as well as helpful) twists. One of mine even told me last week that I needed to be more attached for it to work - she even admitted, unsolicited, to practicing the right-brain stuff stopdog often mentions. I am not sure where the line between "help" and "manipulation" is in therapy anymore.

I'm not saying this to bash therapists or therapy, I know plenty of people who have found it helpful and even I find it helpful, unattached as I am. But it's a conundrum.

All that said, I am a little confused about your last paragraph. Why is the patient's goal or need the therapy relationship itself? Do you mean it becomes that way or that a patient actually enters therapy with that goal in mind?

Hi Atisketatasket,

LOVE your name!!!!

You asked a good question. I don't think that everybody who seeks therapy is in need of an emotionally close therapeutic relationship. Many people go to therapy to get help with a specific goal like quitting smoking or finding a job, etc. They may just need a t who is a good listener who can understand what your goal is and your needs are, and then brainstorm with you to find workable solutions or steps you can take to meet your goal.

Other people come to therapy with deep abandonment wounds from childhood, especially those who had problematic relationships with their parents where they were neglected, abused, or for some other reason the parents were just unable to bond with the child to the degree that was needed for them to develop a healthy sense of self and make all the necessary developmental steps that are needed for a child to grow up and become a relatively self-confident, independent adult who can meet their own emotional needs. Patients like that often need the therapy relationship itself to help them learn some very basic skills that should have been learned in childhood.

I'm the second kind of patient.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Leah123

I just want to state that in my therapeutic relationship, some of those things you say aren't allowed or are discouraged do occur. Each therapeutic relationship and partnership is unique I think and some therapists are able to be much more giving than others. And that I experience my therapy as bounded, but certainly not false! I'm so glad to have a sincere interaction with my therapist. Our disagreements are some proof of that, lol, she's not there to simply appease me, to be just a construct, though she is there to help and does.

And what happens for me during therapy definitely doesn't disappear when the session is over.

I'm sorry you're having such a long, tough go through therapy. I understand from many posts, some very similar to yours, that the constraints of therapy make it untenable for some people, understandably. I wonder if for you, after giving it a long, earnest effort it sounds like, if other ways of approaching life's challenges might be more healing and helpful?

I know a relatively small subset of the population chooses therapy and some other subsets find what they need in spirituality, in support groups, in medication, in self-help, in creating a diverse community (like volunteering or joining meetups or other ways) or in some combination of those and other things-- and that if something seems so deeply flawed to a person... perhaps another avenue might be more productive? I love therapy and find it deeply helpful, compelling, rewarding, also challenging and painful, but it isn't one size fits all.

P.S. You mention this might be a temporary feeling you're having, so I wonder... if you do intend to stay in or return to therapy- can you share all of this with your therapist. I find it deeply revealing and helpful, if not easy, when I've shared such things.

Hi Leah,

Thanks for giving such a thoughtful, detailed reply!

I ended up talking to my t about my concerns on my session last week (see the thread "Therapy (Un)Rant." I feel much better since we talked about this. She said she is not discouraging closeness or attachment. She said in some things, she has simply been following my lead concerning how much attachment I am comfortable with. (It is true that I usually act rather dismissive about attachment, even though I strongly want it.) I never ask for a hug or for her to sit closer, and when she has offered me something like that, I have usually refused. I actually have a huge fear of attaching because I have been through so many damaging relationship endings. But at the same time, I need to know that my t cares and that she is OK with me feeling attached or moving closer to her emotionally if and when I feel comfortable with it.

So it is probably not fair for me to blame my t for seeming to discourage closeness. There were just times when it "seemed" that way, such as how she handled email messages and some other things. But she insists that she isn't trying to push me away at all.

To be honest, I don't really NEED my t to change her approach at all. All I really NEEDED was reassurance that she is not intentionally trying to push me away, or "give me hints" that I shouldn't feel close to her, etc.

I've always been terrified of taking that step and then being pushed away, which would crush me. I think my attachment style is "disorganized," which is one of the hardest to overcome.

[peaches100]

Leah,

I also meant to thank you for your other alternative suggestions for me that may help me find the sense of connection I am looking for. I'm very involved in my congregation activities, but I have been slow in getting to know people there because I just switched to this congregation about 6 months ago. Even though I'm pretty sure people would call me kind and nice, I'm very wishy-washy about getting close to anybody, for fear of being hurt. So I think that, although people find me nice, they also sense that I have a wall up. I hope to reach out bit by bit to get to know some of them.

Also, my t bought a book about journaling for emotional wellness, which she is going to show me this week on my session. I think that would be a good fit for me, in connection with healing, because I've always been a writer of some kind, whether it be poetry, journals, or in my secular work as a technical writer. I used to journal quite a lot, but I stopped 2-3 years ago (not sure why) and just haven't returned to it. Maybe this book my t got will help me get back into my writing in a way that will speed up my healing.

[peaches100]

Thanks Skyscrapermeow,

I've thought several times about changing t's, but each time, I have felt unable to change because I feel so attached to this one. I would rank my t as being more on the "conservative" side than the "liberal" side when it comes to therapeutic boundaries. When I first began seeing her, I had asked her "Is it OK if I feel close to you?" and she had said, "Yes, as long as you don't expect to receive the same in return." You can probably imagined how much that hurt!! Also early in my therapy with her, I had expressed a wish many times for her to hug me or offer some kind of physical comfort when we would do EMDR or other therapy work that put me into way too big of an emotional spin. I have PTSD and have to manage therapy work in small bits or I get triggered and dissociate. So for a long time, our work would overwhelm me emotionally, and my t would not offer physical comfort because of my past history with SA. It was the basis for several arguments because I would then tell her that if she could not comfort me when things got too painful, then I did not want to do work at that level that could leave me feeling retraumatized.

Over the years, my t says she has learned a lot more about attachment issues and has changed her viewpoint on some things. I think one of those things is physical comfort. But I have a terrible time when I want to ask for a hug, because I remember all those arguments we used to have about it. It's hard for me to feel like it's OK now, even though she says so. Deep down, I feel like she doesn't really want to, and I have just made her feel guilty or something. I don't want her to offer anything she doesn't truly want to, and I don't want to feel as though I had to argue or manipulate to get it. So we are at that stage where I just can't seem to ask, even though she says it's OK.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I entered therapy for exact same reason as you. Attraction to unavailable people and desire to break the cycle ( also secondary issue of overspending and anxiety over finances)

But I didn't expect my t to love me or form true relationship with me. I had no plans to feel closeness to t. Maybe because I never knew it's possible of needed? I needed somebody knowledgable to help me figure out why I am attracted to such people how can I recognize when it happens ( sooner than years later) and what qualities I should be looking for.

Could you work on personal relationship issues and not be attached to t?

I don't think therapy is fake relationship but it's different than real life relationships. It's not business relationship for me per se but it's similar to my relationship with my gyn. I trust him to provide the best care he can. I totally trust his advice and opinion. I have some gyn issues so it is important to have good gyn. I know him for many years. But I don't think of him loving me or attaching to me. It's kind of like it.

My t does great job helping me find the way to healthy relationships. But with other people not with her.

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Hi Divine1966,

I'm glad you didn't feel the need to have a close loving relationship with your t. I think that therapy is much easier, quicker, and less painful when that is not needed. I didn't know I needed it when I first went to therapy after suffering a severe clinical depression. But it had actually been the ending of an attachment relationship that had caused my breakdown, and as we worked in therapy, we realized that I have had numerous experiences of emotional neglect, separations from my mom when I was an infant, rejection by my dad, SA by a neighbor I'd become emotionally attached to, etc. For me, attachment and abandonment issues are the biggest issues I have. So like my t said, "Because the damage was done in the context of relationships, the healing also needs to be by means of a relationship," meaning the therapy one.

It just has been so hard for me to understand this type of relationship, as it doesn't follow any template I've ever known for a relationship. The t relationship is different. It feels intense and close, yet it has many boundaries. More than anything, I just want to understand what it is, what to expect, and not expect, so that I don't end up getting hurt again. It feels weird to me that I've been seeing my t so long and yet I still have times when I feel afraid of her reaction or fear her rejection. Most of it is unfounded and based on my past, not on anything she is doing. But the fear is REAL.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Peaches, I'm sorry you are feeling so negative about therapy. When I was seeing my first T, I wrote an essay that I called The Transference Web. It was about the same subject as your thread. I attached strongly to her but never got the chance to detach slowly. I understand your feelings 100%.

It seems like you are forgetting that your T does let you email her, or were you generalizing? I also think that she would be more of the person you want her to be but you don't let her. She would hug you or hold your hand but you're afraid that would make you more dependent. It's also not true that Ts are only there for clients in the hour and when they get paid.

I don't know if my T is unusual. Perhaps she is. More and more she is giving me what I want and need from her, but she says she is not crossing boundaries. She doesn't say "I love you" but she signs her emails "love". She sends me links to articles she thinks I might like. She came to my H's funeral and to my house. She is acting more like a friend/mother to me and when I question her she admits she is nice! Yet she's totally professional. I know we aren't friends but I know our relationship is NOT just for the hour. It's not reciprocal but it's mutual, if that makes any sense. I told her yesterday that I don't have to make up anything about her, or want more, because she's giving it to me! I don't know why I didn't feel that way all the time with her. Or maybe she changed as she got to know me better.

I wish I knew the answer for you. I always suggest seeing another T, even if just for a consultation. Would you ever consider doing that? Not talking about the past anymore may be the answer. What does your T think would help you? I know you've talked about it with her. Besides trying SE? I want you to feel good! I hope you can figure out, with T's help, what's best for you!!

Hi Rainbow,

I SO appreciate your reply. You know me well, so I trust your observations.

You're right that I am probably not seeing things clearly. It is possible that I am so afraid of feeling attached and getting hurt, that I am on guard 100% of the time, looking for any slight clue that my t wants to push me away or reject me. It could also be that I am projecting my conflicts about attachment onto her.

I know she will let me email, but as you know, we have gone through times when she has told me she didn't want me to do it so often, or say so much, or expect a response right away, etc. It began to feel like if there were that many rules about it, then she must not really want me to do it at all, and that I shouldn't. I also found it hard to limit my email to 1 per week, especially when the session would stir up so much, and it was difficult to put it all away between sessions.

I'm so glad that your relationship with your t has blossomed into something that feels healthy and comfortable. She seems to be concerned about what is best for you, and at times, she has changed the rules. But now, it seems like the two of you have found the right level of closeness. I've observed that when your t gives you the closeness you seek, you feel less of an intense need for it. It truly sounds like you've started being able to "take in" her caring and carry it around inside when she is not with you.

It's great that she has been so supportive during this very difficult time for you, with your husband's illness and recent passing.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Bipolar Warrior

Divine, I was just like you in that I went into therapy with no expectations of attachment. For two years I thought very little about it, but then things took a different turn.

My private therapist, who I have been seeing for over two and a half years, is someone I feel no particular attachment to. I like her, she's a lovely person, but I haven't attached to her. My university therapist (mentor), a woman I have known for seven months, is now a person who I love to a somewhat troubling extent. Having been in therapy for two years already when the university assigned me to her, I thought I knew what I was going into, but I was wrong, because this time I was met by a completely different person.

In the beginning she sort of scared me, but I realised that the reason why she scared me was how well she seemed to be able to read me, like she could see right through me or something. She was forcing me to look at things I had suppressed for years, because she wasn't having any of my crap. I cannot lie to her, not even a little, because she knows.

However, she is also very kind, and loving, which scares me even more, because I am not someone who attaches easily. That's why I didn't think attachment in therapy was going to be a problem at all, but this woman is relentless. She just won't stop saying all these loving and nurturing things that make me despair and recoil, and now, due to her persistence, there is a small pathetic part of me that really needs it. I say pathetic because that is what it feels like to me.

I guess what I am trying to say is that it really depends on the therapist - the person - you are seeing, and how you connect with each other. I have struggled with the "should I or should I not continue to see this person I am now overly attached to?" question, in fact I still do, but every time I reach the same conclusion: this woman helps me. Yeah, sure, I am stupidly attached to her, but so what? The most important thing is that she has made me aware of my harmful scripts and my unsustainable self-bullying, and that she continues to point out things I really need to hear.

Peaches, I can really relate to some of the things you are saying. Therapy is very hard, and sometimes confusing, and what it comes down to is whether the help you are receiving is worth the inner struggle it has created due to feeling that the relationship is "wrong". Only you can determine that. Like some of the others have said, you could consider seeing a different therapist, maybe try a different style of therapy, until you find the right fit. There are many options. It does sound like you need to find someone who can help you work through your attachment issues, including your attachment to them, and I'm sure you can find that person, if you are willing to look. It will take time and be frustrating as hell, but hopefully it will be worth it.

Good luck!

Hi Bipolar Warrier,

I can relate to a HUGE degree the struggle you mention here:

However, she is also very kind, and loving, which scares me even more, because I am not someone who attaches easily.

I am the same way. When I'm afraid that my t wants to push me away, I feel a terrible sense of anxiety, even fear. But when she is too nice to me, then I feel myself wanting to attach - and THAT scares me! So I pull back. It's an awful place to be in. I feel sorry for my t often because I know it must be difficult for her to know how to respond when I feel such internal conflict about it.

I'm glad your university therapist seems to understand you well, so that she knows when to push you a little bit to face something. But it doesn't sound as if she is too pushy at all either!

I've felt that sensation you had where it has seemed like a person could "look right through me." To me, it feels good but also scary. It's good because after so many decades of feeling invisible, it's different to actually feel seen and heard! But the scary part is maintaining any sort of eye contact when we're discussing something I find scary or shameful. At those times, it is hard for me to look in her eyes or let her look in mine.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Hi Peaches,

A person can choose to be around people who are self absorbed & won't notice them. A person can do this because they have low self worth & don't want to be seen. When a person feels bad about themselves, being noticed is painful. I don't know if you have low self worth or not, just sharing an idea. A fear of intimacy can cause a person to choose unavailable people too.

This fits with your mom. If she is narcissistic this is what you are used to & you just might be following the pattern.

Good luck to you figuring this out.

Hey, Sannah!!!

LONG TIME, NO SEE!!

You hit the nail on the head. I do suffer from low self-esteem. It's something that I am working on. On the one hand, being invisible helps me to not get hurt because nobody even notices me to start with. And if they don't notice me, I won't get attached, and they can't hurt or reject me either.

On the other hand, like you said, being seen can be painful. . .for me, it's about letting anybody see the many vulnerabilities I have hidden behind armored walls as a way to stay safe. And to risk being seen is to risk being hurt or rejected.