Your T/doctor/psychiatrist isn´t nice to you because he/she NEEDS you!

I can't speak for everyone, but at the end of the day, I go home and think about what I can do to help my clients better. Then I have to force myself to think about other things because I will get burned out and become useless if I don't stop obsessing over my clients.

Edited because I realize saying this probably doesn't help you. You are just looking for the help you need and not getting it and that really sucks :-(

You sound like a very kind and caring T, I mean it, not being sarcastic or anything. Perhaps you work in your own practise where you have more flexibility and time to care for your clients in comparison to public mental health care?

I think my psychiatrist perhaps think about me and other patients but in a different way than you describe. I think she is more of irritated that I stand up for what I need and that I tell her when I feel badly treated. Within public health care it´s up to the management to decide what care is given to whom and by that I don´t think a T or a psychiatrist care that much about specific clients.

I have met with both, T:s who themselves weren´t caring and other staff who just tell me there aren´t enough finances to give me the care I need.

I'm still a student in internship. It's hard as a T because if you want to work with clients who don't have a lot of means, you usually get stuck taking public money and then there is an institution breathing down your back saying what you can and can't provide. It's something harsh about a capitalist economy more than individual T's.

Some individual T's aren't caring people though. Or some of them are just burned out...

Yes that is true. But for me anyway it was nothing to do with feeling obligated or even any conscious process. T and I were enmeshed in complex ways, presumably involving old wounds on both sides.

If a female T is offering mirroring that is maternal in kind, and you lacked that in childhood, you might do anything to sustain it. Even giving up your autonomy, your judgement, your voice, etc. Even behaving in a way that meets T's own needs over yours at times. Because the T holds great power, it is maybe not so difficult for them to assert their needs into the process, especially if they are not aware of it, and especially if the client is vulnerable and in a dependent state.

I believe that, that most Ts are nice people. But as a client I am still left with a significant level of confusion about what is real and not in a therapeutic relationship.

I think it is natural for a client to want to understand why a T is being nice or caring. And if you lack sufficient info to know that, it's a bit dangerous to just proceed on blind faith.

My main T last year was nice and caring, but in part because she was heavily invested in the outcome. In order to protect myself I needed to know that. But I did not figure it out till months later and then damage was already done.

As someone said: "how can clients really know to whom they are talking?".

You have to ask. This process can help you become a person who has very intimate conversations with other people. I think its like a secret society out there. Like being rich or good looking. Not kidding!

But whether asking helps or not will depend upon the veracity of a therapist - the thing people are saying is the unknown factor. Very few therapists, I hazard to guess, will tell a client they do not care about or dislike that client if asked - regardless of how the therapist really feels.

The question in our therapy we are trying to answer is not how does the t feel, but how does the client feel? If our ambition is how the t feels, we are barking up the wrong tree and no longer doing our own therapy. Not sure what is going on then.

I know that is what everyone says, but is that always healthy -- to have one person in an intimate relationship revealing little or nothing, and with a general prohibition about even asking?

I think this borders on psychological manipulation. The T's behavior (and the process) induces strong feelings in the client, the client naturally wants to know "what is going on", but the T withholds and dodges. And then the client is made to feel wrong for wanting normal feedback. Some call this gaslighting or crazy-making.

This is where having a math / science background helps. You go back at look at your assumptions and exactly what the problem is that you are trying to solve. For example, why are the ts feelings important to you? Maybe because you try to accommodate yourself to the other person too much. You are afraid to state your opinion. (This was actually me!)

Then what was the point of asking?
"Quote:Originally Posted by BudFox View Post

As someone said: "how can clients really know to whom they are talking?".
You have to ask."

I don't disagree with the idea it does not matter what the therapist thinks or feels - but I then see absolutely no point in asking them.

Exactly - it is insane behavior on their part and they (and others) further blame clients for objecting or questioning it.

It IS psychological manipulation.

It's not psychological manipulation to be "normal" nice to a client though. I think there should be clarification on what's really being discussed here. I was under the impression that Sarah was discussing basic kind regard for a patient in the context of the visit. Not crossing boundaries which is an entirely different matter. Which are we discussing at this point?

I have to say I have never found the therapists to be kind. Sometimes they are not actively unkind - but I haven't found them especially warm or inviting or kind either.

TBH though stopdog, would you recognize it if you saw it? It seems like most expressions of kindness from service workers are that you're darn near offended that your personal space is invaded. And that's certainly your prerogative, but it makes it difficult to be "warm" if someone wants you to keep your distance.

I would recognize it. I don't deal with many service workers of this sort other than professionally - but certainly I know when I think someone is kind or not. I don't find it kind to invade my space. I don't go to them for kindness - but people seem to find them so. I just do not. I am not saying I am upset at not finding kindness from a therapist - just that I haven't ever experienced them being so. I do find kindness from other people. It, to me, seems like the version of therapist kindness is a bit like the guillotine - perhaps not as awful as having one's head chopped off with a sword or having a botched hanging, but one still has one's head chopped off. I don't want my head chopped off at all and the therapist version, while possibly less unkind than being hacked with a sword, still does not equate kindness.

Mine is definitely kind, warm and inviting.

IF others find them so, I am not going to interfere. I don't, but it does not mean that someone else won't.