[BudFox]

Seems that attachment theory says our brains are social organs wired for attachment. And if a therapy client suffered dysfunctional attachments to primary caretakers, it would not be surprising if they developed strong attachment to, even dependency on, a T who was meeting basic attunement needs and acting as an idealized caretaker.

In the case of premature termination forced by the T, many clients will have trouble letting go and might experience the abandonment as life threatening. They will likely be chastised or blamed for this, and expected to get with the program and go to a new T, even though the process itself created this trap, by offering and then withdrawing support.

This leaves the client in a purgatory or limbo, trapped in an unfinished process. The prior T might refuse further support, and a new T simply does not represent an attachment figure, and might never. You cannot just transfer attachment from one person to another.

The whole process seems set up to trigger attachment/abandonment trauma in vulnerable clients, while at the same time urging clients to assume responsibility for this, whenever a T decides they want to terminate and refer out.

[BudFox]

ps: A related thought… since attachment is apparently characterized by a need for proximity, doesn't attachment in therapy create a trap where the client naturally desires proximity but only gets an hour or two per week?

[CantExplain]

What the therapist seems to be offering is largely a lie.

[healed84]

Interesting.. T and I have talked about termination before and he has always said, that if the idea of termination leaves me feeling abandoned, given up on, then it clearly isn't time to terminate. That the ideal termination is when both client and t feels comfortable doing so. Now, that isn't to say the client won't have some trepidation about it.. But the premature feeling should not be there.

So, even if t is purposely fostering that attachment in a healthy termination its been dealt with and it shouldn't feel bad and be traumatizing.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by healed84

That the ideal termination is when both client and t feels comfortable doing so. Now, that isn't to say the client won't have some trepidation about it.. But the premature feeling should not be there.

Understood. I'm talking about the scenario where the T refuses to continue. Since Ts can terminate at any time for almost any reason, this seems a sort of insanity that is built into the process: induce attachment -> bail out at the time of their choosing -> blame client for losing their mind.

[Freewilled]

I pretty much lost my mind when my T let me know he was moving away....he even gave me 6 months notice (!) It was a really weird reaction that, at the time, felt outside of my control. It's been going through my mind how my T told me he was in it for the long haul early on...but what exactly is a "long haul"? At the end, he was kind of like we've been meeting for 2 years and that's a long time...my long haul was longer than 2 years, I guess.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by BudFox

You cannot just transfer attachment from one person to another.

I guess it feels this way to you? And its true you have only one bio mother and father. And maybe you cant choose how you feel, but you can choose how you act. And sometimes your feelings will follow your actions.

[SkyscraperMeow]

People forget that there was a time before they knew their therapist, a time when they couldn't have imagined feeling so attached. And then, when they get attached to their therapist and something disrupts the work, they think they can never have it again. But they totally could with any other competent therapist.

It's like the loss of any relationship. If your dog dies, does that mean you can never love another dog? Of course not. It might not be precisely the same love, but you will still love it.

Or if you have a kid and then you have another kid.

Is there only one kind of attachment that can only follow one person? No.

OMG. I know the perfect video that makes this point. Pretend it's about therapy:

(If I didn't have you.)

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

People forget that there was a time before they knew their therapist, a time when they couldn't have imagined feeling so attached. And then, when they get attached to their therapist and something disrupts the work, they think they can never have it again. But they totally could with any other competent therapist.

It's like the loss of any relationship. If your dog dies, does that mean you can never love another dog? Of course not. It might not be precisely the same love, but you will still love it.

Or if you have a kid and then you have another kid.

Is there only one kind of attachment that can only follow one person? No.

OMG. I know the perfect video that makes this point. Pretend it's about therapy:

(If I didn't have you.)

That song was unique and kinda funny but true! Thank you. I attached to more than one T so I know it's possible. People remarry after losing a spouse of many years also. I don't know if I will, but I know it's possible. As far as my T, if she doesn't die or move away, I will see her for the rest of my life. If she moves away, I know we would still email. The relationship won't totally disappear. She told me that.

Bud, I agree that premature termination is a nightmare for those of us with attachment issues. Ts have a huge responsibility not to let that happen but of course there is no guarantee. Not in therapy or in real life. All we can do is grieve and move on even when it hurts.

[Hans_Olo]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Seems that attachment theory says our brains are social organs wired for attachment. And if a therapy client suffered dysfunctional attachments to primary caretakers, it would not be surprising if they developed strong attachment to, even dependency on, a T who was meeting basic attunement needs and acting as an idealized caretaker.

In the case of premature termination forced by the T, many clients will have trouble letting go and might experience the abandonment as life threatening. They will likely be chastised or blamed for this, and expected to get with the program and go to a new T, even though the process itself created this trap, by offering and then withdrawing support.

This leaves the client in a purgatory or limbo, trapped in an unfinished process. The prior T might refuse further support, and a new T simply does not represent an attachment figure, and might never. You cannot just transfer attachment from one person to another.

The whole process seems set up to trigger attachment/abandonment trauma in vulnerable clients, while at the same time urging clients to assume responsibility for this, whenever a T decides they want to terminate and refer out.

Your post makes a lot of sense in the light of my present situation. Being dumped by a therapist hurts a lot. However, I don't believe it's impossible to transfer attachment to another person. Maybe, "transfer" isn't the right word, but I believe it's possible to grow trust and attachment anew.

[wheeler]

Budfox, I have lived this and are still processing it today, some 20 years later. It's has been a long a complicated road for me. I was terminated by a therapist about 15 years ago. She was someone I saw off and on for about 10 years. I certainly learned a lot and grew with her but her termination of my therapy hurt me in so many ways, and I'm still reliving to some extent now.

Fast forward to about 5 years ago I finally was able to connect with a therapist who helped me worked through a lot more lingering and nagging crap from experience with my first T. Unfortunately this T just ended our work about 2 months ago. Different circumstances but still unexpected and I have been spiraling ever since. However, oddly, not as bad as my first experience, and I know there are a lot of reasons for that. One of them is the help I've been getting from yet another therapist.

It's all been very complication, confusing, exhausting...etc, but I think I keep growing and learning....in between being overwhelmed of course!

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by SkyscraperMeow

People forget that there was a time before they knew their therapist, a time when they couldn't have imagined feeling so attached. And then, when they get attached to their therapist and something disrupts the work, they think they can never have it again. But they totally could with any other competent therapist.

It's like the loss of any relationship. If your dog dies, does that mean you can never love another dog? Of course not. It might not be precisely the same love, but you will still love it.

Or if you have a kid and then you have another kid.

Is there only one kind of attachment that can only follow one person? No.

OMG. I know the perfect video that makes this point. Pretend it's about therapy:

I never felt any sort of attachment to any of the several Ts I worked with prior to the one in question. And the several that I have tried since, same thing. Many of the latter I did not stick with long enough to form attachment, but thats because they did not want to continue, or i found them unlikable, or too expensive, and because I no longer trust the process like I did before and my threshold for tolerating bulls**t or incompetence or wasted time is very low.

The point is not whether attachment to another T is possible, it's whether it's likely and how many months or years might it take. And if one T can drop you in the midst of intense and life altering attachment and dependence, against your will, and cut off all contact, perhaps it might be foolish to attempt this with another one. And perhaps also the prudent client asks what this says about the basic process.

I liked the video. Pretty clever and funny. But as for the larger issue at hand here, I do not find it funny at all.

Also, a therapy relationship is not the same as marriage, or a pet, etc. Not even close.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Hans_Olo

Your post makes a lot of sense in the light of my present situation. Being dumped by a therapist hurts a lot. However, I don't believe it's impossible to transfer attachment to another person. Maybe, "transfer" isn't the right word, but I believe it's possible to grow trust and attachment anew.

Agree. I'm not saying you cannot have an attachment to another T. I'm questioning the basic process and the assumption that powerful attachment/dependence can be severed at any time if the T wishes it so, and the client just needs to "move on" and find some other T.

Seems a very dangerous scenario. Especially if the depth of the psychological and emotional injury, and the betrayal, is such that the client just cannot or will not try again. How many are out there in this situation?

Christ, I cannot even find a T who has the guts to properly acknowledge the harm done by ex T. Instead they are subtly piling on in many cases. And that is an instant deal breaker for me.

[magicalprince]

I feel like the main issue with therapy is that it's unnatural. It is trying to serve two purposes but refuses to guarantee either one.

A) therapy can be an informational thing, where a therapist can look at your relationships and give you advice on how to change your patterns, teach skills etc.

B) therapy can become a practice relationship itself. THIS is where problems crop up. It is not a natural relationship so what is it practice for? It also is not a true parenting relationship because money is paid to equalize the attention they provide so it can't last. If it would last without money, it would not remain a therapy relationship, it would feel wrong to be one.

I think B) is just too complex and demanding for most therapists to manage. But therapy is allowed to be that when it's convenient without having actually committed to offering it.

[BudFox]

magicalprince: Indeed, it is not natural. And seems you are also suggesting it is often ambiguous and nebulous. Therapist websites use words like "transformation", "healing", "empowerment" to market their product, but what exactly is the product? Even when i ask them, it's usually not clear.

The biz promises a lot and idealizes itself. Clearly it can help some people, but (getting back to my point with this thread)… hidden within the very nature of it is the potential to abandon and traumatize those who can least afford to be abandoned and traumatized. And because denial of this is necessary for self-preservation, the client also gets blamed.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Also, a therapy relationship is not the same as marriage, or a pet, etc. Not even close.

I think the therapy relationship is similar to a romantic relationship when there are attachment issues involved. Losing a spouse can be traumatic for anyone, but for someone with attachment issues that trauma is magnified. The same can be said for a therapist. Just like a T seems to terminate therapy just when the client feels most vulnerable, a spouse often leaves a partner under similar circumstances. That doesn't usually stop them from leaving and getting on with their life, however. And unless a therapist (or anyone, really) has attachment issues of their own, I honestly don't think they get it- not at all. It can be understood in the context of behaviors or symptoms, but not on an empathetic level.

[stopdog]

For what it is worth - I see one who is clueless about those of us who are not all attachy.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by Lauliza

And unless a therapist (or anyone, really) has attachment issues of their own, I honestly don't think they get it- not at all. It can be understood in the context of behaviors or symptoms, but not on an empathetic level.

I imagine that's true. But a therapist is paid to understand well enough that they don't inflict damage on someone who cant absorb it. If this happens with any regularity, then the whole thing is a fraud or worse. It's like institutionalized torture.

As for the therapist/spouse comparison, seems the uneven disclosure and vulnerability in therapy changes EVERYTHING. With this power differential comes the potential for emotional and psychological dependence. I know of no other human relationship where one person is playing a role in exchange for payment, while disguising their true self.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by wheeler

Budfox, I have lived this and are still processing it today, some 20 years later. It's has been a long a complicated road for me. I was terminated by a therapist about 15 years ago. She was someone I saw off and on for about 10 years. I certainly learned a lot and grew with her but her termination of my therapy hurt me in so many ways, and I'm still reliving to some extent now.

All I can say is sorry you've gone thru that, and also shocked at the incredibly long timespans you mention. Wow.

[ChipperMonkey]

I have attachment issues.

I don't trust. Period. (People.)

I learned to trust the process, not the therapist.

Processes carry, therapists do not.

Originally Posted by ChipperMonkey

I have attachment issues.

I don't trust. Period. (People.)

I learned to trust the process, not the therapist.

Processes carry, therapists do not.

I think there is some truth to that actually but I'd probably say it differently. I do trust people and do trust my therapists; however, my therapy always stayed very focused on me and my issues and the process/skills/work I needed to acquire so that I could move forward in life without a therapist eventually. That was always the goal and direction of focus.

It seems that when the process turns into being all about the therapist and the relationship with the therapist that the process gets so muddled and contentious and off-center. Apparently there are therapists and therapy modalities that seem to make the focus about the therapist almost much moreso than the client which seems backwards to me. I know some say that the relationship thing is healing, but for many it seems to just open up a horrible can of worms that never gets contained again.

I don't know if that is intentional (seems to be in some cases), and if so, it seems so often to end up badly for so many people. All I know is that, for me, keeping the focus on me and my goals/skills, etc. seemed to prevent problems in that area maybe, but on the other hand, I might just be the kind of client who doesn't tend toward the issues that seem to get muddied up in transference, etc. I always have had strong relationships with my therapists, but they were always in the context of therapy and I always understood their professional limitations.

I don't know. I feel badly for people who get so caught up in their therapist that they seem to get lost in that whole relationship thing; seems like so much additional pain that you would think could somehow be avoided. It's sad to read these kinds of outcomes.

[stopdog]

I have never met a therapist who could explain what "the process" meant. I certainly have no way of trusting it.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have never met a therapist who could explain what "the process" meant. I certainly have no way of trusting it.

You've said that many times before and I've always found that baffling. My therapists were always able to define for me exactly where they saw I needed help/change/work. They could tell me what they believed I would need to learn and/or do to get to those points, and they actively and pretty deliberately geared their approaches and our discussions towards those goals. I always knew why they were doing what they were doing. Maybe because they were more behaviorally oriented rather than psychodynamic perhaps? Not sure. None of them were straight any particular modality, but they did lean toward the behavioral. Maybe that's the difference? I know you detest behavior therapies though; I get that.

[stopdog]

Behavorial is not for me.

[AncientMelody]

Originally Posted by BudFox

Seems that attachment theory says our brains are social organs wired for attachment. And if a therapy client suffered dysfunctional attachments to primary caretakers, it would not be surprising if they developed strong attachment to, even dependency on, a T who was meeting basic attunement needs and acting as an idealized caretaker.

In the case of premature termination forced by the T, many clients will have trouble letting go and might experience the abandonment as life threatening. They will likely be chastised or blamed for this, and expected to get with the program and go to a new T, even though the process itself created this trap, by offering and then withdrawing support.

This leaves the client in a purgatory or limbo, trapped in an unfinished process. The prior T might refuse further support, and a new T simply does not represent an attachment figure, and might never. You cannot just transfer attachment from one person to another.

The whole process seems set up to trigger attachment/abandonment trauma in vulnerable clients, while at the same time urging clients to assume responsibility for this, whenever a T decides they want to terminate and refer out.

Thank goodness my psychiatrist doesn't follow this mode of therapy It does sound incredibly painful from hearing others' experiences here. I' sorry you went through that.