[CantExplain]

Four things therapists ought to tell you up front but (in my experience) never do:
1. How long it is going to take.
2. How much it is going to hurt.
3. The likelihood of failure.
4. How many of your problems will remain after you're finished.

If, say, a plastic surgeon failed to tell you these things, you could sue them to kingdom come.

[AllHeart]

I don't get how they could possibly even know??

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

I don't get how they could possibly even know??

Yes - they do know:
10 Secrets Your Therapist Won?t Tell You | World of Psychology

10 More Things Your Therapist Won?t Tell You | World of Psychology

I don't agree with the parts where this guy whines about not being understood or being not rich etc, but they very much deliberately (and I think with malice aforethought) do not tell clients a lot of things it would be very useful to know.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

I don't get how they could possibly even know??

Experience. Also, their professional organisation should keep statistics. (Does it?)

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Experience. Also, their professional organisation should keep statistics. (Does it?)

But we are not are statistic, or a previous client. We are individuals with unique requirements and goals.

[AllHeart]

#1 on the 10 Secrets article StopDog posted:

"Most therapists honestly believe they can help most people with most problems. However, until you get in there and start working with a therapist, a therapist can’t really predict whether they’ll be able to help you or not. Most therapists believe they can help anyone who comes to them with a specific problem they’re trained or experienced to handle. However, every single individual is unique and there are few reliable predictors of any given therapist’s success with any given client."

Each individual is unique. Specific to the OP's question, there is no way a T could answer those questions up front unless they are one hell of a clairvoyant, or, have robots for clients.

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Four things therapists ought to tell you up front but (in my experience) never do:
1. How long it is going to take.
2. How much it is going to hurt.
3. The likelihood of failure.
4. How many of your problems will remain after you're finished.

If, say, a plastic surgeon failed to tell you these things, you could sue them to kingdom come.

There is no way any therapist could have with any amount of accuracy or specificity told me these things. The most they could have done is say, 1. "This could take a long time, but that isn't necessarily true for everyone. 2. "This is a painful process" (but honestly, do people actually go into therapy thinking delving into your issues and history won't be painful?) 3. "This may or may not be helpful" (for me, being told I would be likely to fail would have been discouraging and completely inaccurate; my therapy was quite successful; I am glad I did not get that message) 4. I'm not sure about this one. My therapy has been successfully concluded, and I don't have too many problems that remain significant anymore that I worked on in therapy.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

But we are not are statistic, or a previous client. We are individuals with unique requirements and goals.

They can still tell us that it MIGHT take a very long time and that it WILL PROBABLY hurt a great deal and that it MIGHT fail and that there will CERTAINLY be issues left over at the end.

I didn't even get that. Did you?

Originally Posted by CantExplain

They can still tell us that it MIGHT take a very long time and that it WILL PROBABLY hurt a great deal and that it MIGHT fail and that there will CERTAINLY be issues left over at the end.

I didn't even get that. Did you?

I don't know that I really questioned any of those things. I knew my issues were complicated and figured it would take a pretty long time; I didn't have myself on a time-table. I knew it would hurt; I was already hurting; hurt was not a surprise--it was a daily part of my life, so that honestly wouldn't have scared me any more than I was already scared. I already felt like a failure; therapy was the first thing I did that I felt was pretty sure to be a step in the right direction, and it was. I wasn't worried about failing therapy; I was just worried about not surviving life. We all have issues throughout life. The issues I dealt with in therapy really have been very much resolved, and when residual things crop up, they really aren't much of an issue anymore because I am much more able to deal with them in healthy ways.

Looking back my T did say "Even if we are sitting here in 20 years, it is ok."

[wotchermuggle]

If you walked into your first therapy session and your therapist said...

I don't know how long it will take to help you and I can't say if you'll get hurt more in the process. The whole thing could be a failure and you might walk away with all the same problems you came with.

Who in their right mind would stay when given the most pessimistic account of what could happen? We need someone to be the positive person in our lives to give us hope.

[Chummy]

My T and I have talked a bit about some of those things. I don't think this was told at my intake or in my first session with T. I was so almost sure that I couldn't be helped, so we talked about it. My T was honest. She said that if I don't try, then I won't get ''better'', but if I try then there is at least a chance and I can't say I'm hopeless until I've tried all things that can help me. She said it won't be easy (so it could and probably would hurt) and she also said it could take a long time. And also that I probably won't ever be ''problem'' free. I'll probably always have some anxiety with social situations.

I'm glad my T is sort of honest. If she would only be positive, then I won't believe her. I already knew all this, that it won't be easy and short. I wish previous T's would have been honest about therapy and everthing. They kind of made me believe that it was all my fault and that I was a failure.

[atisketatasket]

Actually, 1, 3, and 4 on the original list seem susceptible to statistics to me. If not by professional organization, then individual therapists should have a sense based in experience. 2 is too subjective.

Researchers could get into it: Do studies of randomly selected clients, give them exit interviews, follow up every six months for the next few years, etc.

This thread has made me realize that one of my No. 1's good points is that she did in fact tell me it was going to hurt pretty early on, second or third session at the latest.

I wish mine had said:

"You will probably fall in love with me, because this will be the only relationship you will ever have where you will feel unconditionally cared about and validated. I will trigger unmet needs in you, and you may forget this is a professional relationship. After you fall in love with me, you will eventually need to leave me, and I will never have any contact with you again. And by the way, even though you will fall in love with me, I will never fall in love with you because you are just my job. I see and have seen hundreds of others, so our relationship is not special. I may not remember you after termination."

[unaluna]

Didnt they tell you change was up to you? Doesnt everybody know the lightbulb joke? I didnt understand it at first - probably not for several years - but eventually ya gotta see: its not "them", its you. Its me. Its not the rest of the world that has to do something differently in order for me to not be miserable.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Didnt they tell you change was up to you? Doesnt everybody know the lightbulb joke? I didnt understand it at first - probably not for several years - but eventually ya gotta see: its not "them", its you. Its me. Its not the rest of the world that has to do something differently in order for me to not be miserable.

Now here's an interesting philosophical conundrum. The last sentence, of course, is absolutely right.

But...isn't this another excuse a therapist could use? "The patient didn't want to change enough, hence she stayed with me for 10 years, went through a lot of pain, I didn't really help her, and she still has issues. Clearly she did not want to change enough."

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Now here's an interesting philosophical conundrum. The last sentence, of course, is absolutely right.

But...isn't this another excuse a therapist could use? "The patient didn't want to change enough, hence she stayed with me for 10 years, went through a lot of pain, I didn't really help her, and she still has issues. Clearly she did not want to change enough."

Thats why i see a philosopher!

But i am more interested in what the client is saying to himself, about himself, as well as what the t is saying about herself to herself. I dont think its valid to speculate on what each person is saying about what the other is thinking - i mean, how could they possibly know? That exercise strikes me as putting the responsibility for change on the other person. Each person can only do what they are responsible for.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by wotchermuggle

If you walked into your first therapy session and your therapist said...

I don't know how long it will take to help you and I can't say if you'll get hurt more in the process. The whole thing could be a failure and you might walk away with all the same problems you came with.

Who in their right mind would stay when given the most pessimistic account of what could happen? We need someone to be the positive person in our lives to give us hope.

Actually - I would do and did do a lot better once I got the therapist to admit this.
I think it is funny to start out with those guys deliberately lying to clients and people here saying they want such a thing.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Didnt they tell you change was up to you? Doesnt everybody know the lightbulb joke? I didnt understand it at first - probably not for several years - but eventually ya gotta see: its not "them", its you. Its me. Its not the rest of the world that has to do something differently in order for me to not be miserable.

But not everyone has this as their issue. And surely for what they get paid - the therapist does have some responsibility or does something. I thought I was one of the few who believes they just sit there and think about what they are cooking for dinner.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

But not everyone has this as their issue. And surely for what they get paid - the therapist does have some responsibility or does something. I thought I was one of the few who believes they just sit there and think about what they are cooking for dinner.

I think the t facilitates change. But the client actually has to change. The t is like a meeting facilitator; the meeting is among me, myself and i! The facilitator says carp like whoa wait a minute - did me hear what myself just said? Only subtlely.

[atisketatasket]

SD vs. unaluna!

[stopdog]

The poster formerly known as hankster is someone I like but almost never do we agree or approach things the same way - especially not around therapy. It is like I am a mac and she is a pc.

[Salmon77]

Add me to those who say the therapist can't possibly know how long it'll take, how much it'll hurt, or what problems you'll still have afterward. Even if s/he made a prediction depending on your presenting issues, new issues will come to light, new problems will crop up in your life, change might happen more quickly or more slowly...

My therapist made some general statements that the work is hard and that it sometimes takes years. No promises or anything.

[stopdog]

It is not a matter of them knowing precisely how much or how long - just that they very often fail to give serious warnings at all.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by stopdog

It is not a matter of them knowing precisely how much or how long - just that they very often fail to give serious warnings at all.

See, I agree with this. An experienced therapist should have some sense about this. I don't think the OP was asking for precision. Just warnings.

Although now that I think about it, both of mine mention in their contracts that therapy may be quite lengthy and may not solve the problems presented. That may be as good as a client can hope for.