Why Therapy?

Yes, yes, yes.

I think meds should be dead last, if on the list at all. Therapy I dunno, maybe near the bottom. I understand that acute and emergency cases require different thinking.

What makes sense to me as a possible first step is comprehensive assessment of physiological issues. Find out what the body needs! Mineral deficiencies, hormone issues, digestive issues, chronic inflammatory and infectious disease, and more. Also structural work, body work, trauma interventions like EMDR.

“Many mental hospitals are living museums of undiscovered bodily disease.”
FMR Walshe, MD

What I'd like to see is a wiser approach to everything needed for mental health. With depression practically a global epidemic we need to look at root causes. I live alone (not wholly voluntarily) and deal with social isolation. If I lived in another culture this would not be a root cause of anxiety and depression because I would be integrated into a close-knit multi-generational society. This is a social disease, as far as I am concerned. But I need to dig myself out. Don't underestimate that brains need brains. It's a powerful concept, very powerful, my friend. I enjoyed your comments.

Totally agree. I guess i contradicted myself a bit, but with the physiological stuff there can sometimes be simple low hanging fruit, things that can make a world of difference in mood and nervous system function. Get the thyroid working right, or supplement with magnesium, for example. Though sometimes it can be more complex. I was dx'd with Lyme disease which can cause chronic inflammation of the brain and depression is very common.

But yes for sure, in the case of depression, i agree it is largely a social disease. I am fairly isolated also. Yea we are meant to be with the tribe, not living alone in little boxes and staring at screens. And more generally modern culture is alienating and distressing and leaves you dead inside if you don't counteract it.

Lyme disease is so debilitating. I wonder, does one finally overcome it? I don't know. I only know of one person who had it and she suffers from a host of problems including depression, addiction, anxiety, poor health etc.

This social isolation thing is my low hanging fruit. It is so counter to who I am. It is creating a false persona. When I talk to people about it they say things like, "I would love to live alone," or "I lived alone. It was great," and who knows for how long? For a year or two, okay. But as a way of life it sucks. I was in the Peace Corps in the South Pacific and lived in a rural village. They had a rule. No one lives alone. They felt if a person lived alone it would make them more vulnerable to demons and ghosts wandering around looking for a psychic home. Tribal wisdom at work.

I think I've covered all the holistic health things...but I think it takes time for the body to re-adjust. Coming on PC and having to relate what I am doing, and hearing others share, has helped. Cyperspace is not the ideal community, but I think, for now, it helps. Well, actually, in a way, the cyperspace community is pretty cool.

I agree yet disagree.

Some disorders such as PTSD....I don't believe you're going to heal unless you get outside therapeutic help. PTSD minds are stuck in the past and really do need outside intervention to get "un-stuck". I do believe other disorders are the same. In this sense, I don't think therapy should be at the bottom. Well, "talk" therapy, yes, as I see that crap as pretty useless. Unless you're processing or learning skills, you're just paying for a pseudo-friend.

I do agree that physiological needs should be near the top of the list. My moods were off the charts. Seriously, OFF....THE....CHARTS! When I say I've done it all....its not much of an exaggeration. I've run the gamut on medications (excluding the older tricyclics and stopping with new meds introduced after 2010), I've done so many different kinds of therapy that I could probably open my own therapy practice as I'm not exaggerating when i say that I know more than many therapists (as most specialize in one to two modalities or are simply generalists).

So anyway, after all this treatment....after improving a TON....my moods were STILL crazy! People would tell me that I needed more drugs or more therapy. I knew they were wrong. (Gut feeling....my intuition is never wrong.) I also suffered from INSANE food cravings....a google search later, and I decided to try l-glutamine (a non-essential amino acid...."non-essential" being a total misnomber b/c if you don't have enough, your digestive system and/or moods can be horrible) because it is known for killing cravings. Well, after a day, the cravings were GONE! (A miracle considering I'm a long term binger.) The miraculous thing is that after two weeks of supplementation, I achieved a state of calm that I haven't felt in sooooo many years. My moods aren't perfect (b/c hey, I still have PTSD), but they are so much more manageable.

Another google search later and I learned that l-glutamine has been recommended for over 45 years to those who have addiction issues.... I found a book in the local used book store from the 1970's that discussed amino acid supplementation. Awesome book....Sadly, I haven't been able to find as much info online about the importance of l-glutamine in regards to general health. (Now it seems to be primarily pushed as a body building supplement.) I *seriously* LOL'ed when I read a line in the book that said something along the lines of how this little supplement could "fix" the moods of millions. Yeah, this tiny little supplement that nobody knows anything about!

Doctors want to push all kinds of drugs. My mood has improved more with this little amino acid than with anything else. Don't get me wrong, I other meds have been helpful, but I'm simply amazed at how well this little amino acid works.

(Sorry if you've read about me yammering on about it before....I truly do think it can work wonders for others since its worked wonders for me!)

And I know there will be many groans, but going gluten-free worked wonders for me. No, I am not "one of those" as I went gluten free before the craze, and yes, I do have horrible physical reactions when I get glutened. (Its not just a "I don't feel as well" sort of thing.) Oh, but my one tangential gripe is all of those "studies" they do to determine if gluten really does have a negative effect on people or if its in their heads. Uhm, these studies are flawed. People like *me*.....people who have such bad skin reactions (many painful cysts all over my body).....well, we'd never sign up for those studies! We're not masochists! Those studies are self-selecting and the only people who sign up for them would be people who have little to no gluten reaction in the first place. My point in saying all of this is that going gluten free really can help, and don't believe all of the negative studies. You'll never know if you have a gluten problem unless you do a detox.

But, yeah.......the power of living a healthy lifestyle can't be underestimated! Drug companies have doctors in their hip pockets, so doctors rather prescribe drugs rather than say "HEY, GET HEALTHY!" Follow the money trail.... Getting healthy the natural way doesn't make anyone rich. Certain supplements aren't cheap, but they're a drop in the bucket when compared to medication costs.

Disclaimer.....there are indeed certain mental conditions which need medication. I am not advocating that everyone drop their prescription drugs. I know that many people need them. However, I fully believe that everyone can benefit from living a healthy lifestyle.....it may not mean being able to get off of medication completely, but it may mean a reduction in those drug amounts.

I've gone off on one helluva tangent. I do that when I'm tired. LOL.

Good Work! BANANAS for Doc Banana~

This reminds me of my last visit with my primary care doc. I brought all the vitamins, supplements, herbals I was taking to show her. She looked at what I had and scoffed! She then pulled out her prescription pad and wrote me a prescription for an SSRI. She commented that doing the SSRI would be cheaper. Should that REALLY be a deciding factor??? As well as FALSE. Because an SSRI is a daily pill that must be taken, while certain herbals are taken as needed. I have a lot more control now that I'm off the SSRI and back to my own regime. She really shook my confidence. Well, for me to go in with a presenting problem of anxiety took a lot of courage and I trusted she would listen. HA.

I have PTSD and have been working with someone I found online for two years. That, and a lot of personal work, reading, and research has helped. I am certain the anxiety and depression are an outcrop of the PTSD. I feel like I am on a healing path. My heart goes out to you, because PTSD is a hard nut.

Love your Christmas portrait, Doc Nanas.!

I started counseling recently and see absolutely no way it will help me. I talk so little, she ended our second session early. I think it can be beneficial to those who are able or want to talk.

I would not let the therapist end an appointment early regardless of whether I was talking or not. The fee is the same so if I want to sit in silence - I expect the therapist to sit there quietly with me unless she is planning on prorating the fee. In my opinion, it is not up to the therapist to decide to change the amount of time I contracted for just because it is not going the way the therapist wants.

ChipperMonkey: By PTSD do you mean early childhood trauma, or so called developmental trauma, as opposed to some type of shock trauma that came later in life? I appear to be suffering from this also, multiple sources, and I know what you mean about needing outside intervention, but I just don't know that would be. Maybe you are referring to things like EMDR?

Interesting about L-glutamine. I know of this as a remedy for healing the lining of the gut, as in Leaky Gut Syndrome. And since the gut is the "second brain" and the seat of much of neurotransmitter production (not to mention the immune system), makes sense that working on the gut could affect behavior. Heal the gut, heal the brain, etc.

And gluten intolerance is sometimes id'd as the cause of leaky gut. And not surprisingly gluten intolerance is associated with "mental illness".

This is not medicine. This is clinical pharmacology. Or perhaps drug pushing is a more honest description. Fundamentally its not much different from pushing street drugs. But it's dressed up to look respectable, with the formalized ritual of the Rx, the backing of the whole medical apparatus, the suggestion of rigorously researched evidence-based treatment (often a lie), the Dr with their lab coat and shiny machines, etc.

Most people think an SSRI is "fixing" something and is therefore legit medicine. It's actually introducing a chemical imbalance. If doctors were honest about this, and said: take this because it will tweak your brain chemistry and you might feel different or better for a while, but it fixes nothing, and oh by the way I am Rx'ing this because my training doesn't equip me to do much else, and the system discourages me from suggesting other interventions… at least that would be honest.

Excuse the rant...

I know people who are back to full health or pretty close, after being dx'd with Lyme. Its confusing because testing, diagnosis, definition it's all fluid and controversial. Its also used as a catch all, and sometimes the drivers of disease are things like mold exposure, heavy toxin load, gut parasites, root canals, even trauma or emotional stuff rather than the Lyme bugs.

I relate about the false persona thing. Isolation has distorted my whole identity. Intresting about the tribal rule/wisdom and demons. Makes a lot of sense.

Will you marry me?

This is really interesting. I will have to research this a bit more because it fascinates me. I fear small insect life on all levels. I have to move to a new rental in the new year (mine being too expensive) and I happened upon the whole bedbug thing and it has triggered major anxiety in me. I don't know how prevalent it is but two of the main hotels in my town got tagged, one is being sued for $100,000! Unless they kill the bugs with heat, it's back to chemicals and I fear being exposed. I must love to worry. Bed bugs!

Re: PTSD The person I found online and who I have been working with for two years believes that we put ourselves in the position of being traumatized in later life (by way of weak personal boundaries etc.) because of unhealed childhood wounds, false beliefs, faulty parenting which could have been so called benign neglect etc. This healer believes that once we dig out the original faulty beliefs and reset them to fit our mature self - relief will come. We need to work on firming up boundaries, healing codependency issues and addictions, self care, nutrition etc. This person was told by medical professionals that she was "broken" and would need to be on antidepressants and antipsychotics for life. She refused all conventional medical intervention. Her model is that it's not good enough to be a survivor with victim mentality, one needs to learn the lessons life has presented, take personal responsibility for one's happiness, and become a thriver. She also believes the "gut" is where transformation happens.

Sure, why not.

Pretty much everything you said makes sense to me, or echoes things I have experienced or read about.

How do we reset the original faulty beliefs though? I can recognize mine but they are so ingrained as to be a reflex. And does this person you are working with believe that a healer or therapist should practice some sort of "reparenting" in order to heal early PTSD? Does she mean the gut figuratively or literally?

................

She believes that we (as mature adults) need to reparent ourselves by getting in touch with our inner different age identities. Self healing is done on an emotional level using imagery and tracking.

For instance, if I have a faulty belief that I am weak and unable to cope I write down all the reasons why I may have formed that belief. That may be a boss telling me I lacked confidence, or as a teenager a teacher telling me I sucked at gym, or as a child my parents or siblings treating me like a weak little frightened wuss who could be easily manipulated.

I then write down what I believe is the truth..for instance, that I have inner strength to cope, and continue to grow stronger in response to life's experiences. This might be distilled into a simple sentence such as , "I am strong enough for life."

I then note the gap between these two beliefs...the thoughts I formed under the influence of the outside world, and what I know to be the authentic truth. If it's a big gap...then I see it is an area I really need to heal.

I get into a meditative state (could be just stretched out on bed with eyes closed, phone and TV turned off) and using my imagination root out and send off these faulty beliefs. Just let go of them. It's best to try to feel where they are lodged. Some people find a pain in the stomach when they do this, others feel a tightening in the chest, etc. One imagines the false belief in any way that comes up -- could be words floating off into space, or heat rising out of the body. Whatever. It's pretty personal. Can imagine a whirlwind that carries painful beliefs up and out of the top of the head and off into space. (This sounds crazy but it is actually pretty consistent with certain ancient shamanistic rituals. Hamm.)

After letting go of the garbage thoughts/false beliefs, one inserts the new belief such as, "I am strong enough. I am capable enough." and just rests with it. This process has to be done many times. It's time consuming. It requires setting time alone, away from TV, reading, family, work, hobbies and other distractions. It could require 7 to 12 hours a week. Most people aren't willing to put in the time and work.

But it makes sense that if one is reprogramming one's beliefs there is going to be a lot of resistance, because the "self" (the ego) wants the status quo to be kept, even if the stories are wrong.

People who consistently do the work start to see behavioral shifts. That's an indication one is successfully creating change deep inside and getting rid of the crappy untruths. It's like tearing off that outer crusty layer that makes us feel ugly and undeserving. Most people who are successful experience a softening of their personalities. They aren't as defensive because they feel "more real" and authentic. A big plus is people report that abusive people no longer "show up" in their life. It's like the vampires and energy suckers instinctively know this is a healthy person who is not willing to donate their lifeblood. People start doing things they have never done before like upleveling their careers, leaving toxic relationships, getting in shape, and getting healthy. Many who were isolated come out of their shells and feel safe doing all kinds of new things. People who are mildly to severely agoraphobic can cure it...although this particular thing takes a lot of time to change.

Personal responsibility is the key to this healer's work. We have to accept that abuse/trauma happened to us, but that it does not have to forever negatively inform us. We can turn it on its head and say, "I am going to use this wake up call, no matter how devastating, to my advantage." That's empowering and I think this person (she's not a trained psychologist or a professional medical anything) who came up with this is amazing. She used her native intelligence and common sense to walk away from abuse not only free, but empowered. She sees no advantage in being a forever victim.

Of course, a lot of people can't handle the responsibility and commitment of this intense self-work. The "self" wants to keep the stories of abuse alive because that's the "status quo" - so to go deep into the self and refute its reality is kind of like going to war with the wounded self.

Sorry for the length of this.

PS By gut she means the emotional center of the self which is not in the brain, and which is now being scientifically proved to be true. Anyone who has ever been forced to take an SSRI knows for certain that whatever that SSRI is doing, it's first doing it in the gut, and not the brain. The beliefs about abuse are formed in the emotional center and then interpreted and cognitively translated by the brain/mind, don't you agree? Beliefs are formed in the gut, and are primitive, and symbolic. I guess this person's model could be said to be informed by Jungian psychology.

This healer believes in supporting this work through healthy diet, vitamins, supplements, getting rid of addictions to alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, toxic relationships etc. She believes if we have a weak body we will be more vulnerable to future abuse. This fact alone got met to clean up my lifestyle in a major way, and I think of itself this is empowering. How many therapists talk to patients about lifestyle? Years ago I was in therapy for 18 months with a psychiatrist while battling a "secret" drinking problem. He knew about it and just brushed it off as insignificant. I finally quit him and went to AA and got straightened out. ( I don't think I ever was an alcoholic but the great thing about AA is that if you are a problem drinker all you have to do is go there and say you don't want to drink. It worked. Beautifully. I loved the people I met there. After another 18 months I quit AA and never again had a problem with alcohol. I now drink socially.) To this day I marvel at the incompetence of that shrink. I would say it was bordering on harmful treatment -- ignoring an obvious behavioral red flag while droning on with his cerebral talk, talk, talk.

Sorry for the length.

You've got to be ready for it.

There are many participants in the forum who take psych meds; they can't all be bad. Making blanket statements about psychiatry is a slippery slope. SSRIs are in a different category than schedule substances. They are not a one size fits all solution.

I think it depends on the individual as to what works. Talk therapy was awful for me when I had therapists who did not know what they were doing; however, I've made incredible progress with the therapist I see now and it's all talk...the difference is that she knows what she's doing. I find behavioral, skills based therapy and techniques to be formulaic and ineffective--and at times damaging. The deeper work with a therapist who can handle trauma without causing more has been perfect for me. Again, it just depends on the person.

Psychiatric care is an open field, like theoretical physics. They don't even know how these meds work. The doc is telling me "I will give you this SSRI to increase the serotonin..." Hell, they don't really know if that is what is happening. It's best if people speak out because this is a field where so much is built on loose sand. (Biased clinical trials etc.) I know more than one person with bipolar who has opted to go off meds, and used holistic methods. This surprised me. They stay stable for a year, maybe two, and then maybe need the meds again. They feel more in control and they have told me they fell better about themselves, even if they need the meds for another future year. They begin to see their treatment as more flexible. There is nothing wrong with questioning any and all the methods used in this field because psychiatry itself is a bit of a modern slippery slope. Meds control certain symptoms, yes, but often with side effects that made them intolerable. And what about lifestyle? It is a know fact that half the people who smoke tobacco have mental health issues. It is just taken for granted that well, smoking is a stress reducer so let's be slack about it. It's taken for granted that oh well, people with mental health issues just need to smoke. That's insane. Lifestyle counts and smoking is known to increase anxiety long-term, not decrease it. So why medicate for anxiety, or even psychosis but not attend to the lifestyle basics? It's baffling. As long as the discussions are respectful I don't see why all treatments and modalities can't be challenged. Psychiatric methodology is not sacred or set in stone. This meds game is so very new, relatively speaking, I think it is good that people speak about their experiences on all levels. People here on PC have suggested meds then I go online and find that sometimes over 150 side effects are listed for a particular medication. That's baffling. If people don't talk there is no feedback loop and the industry needs feedback. I will keep talking but will respectfully tone it down.

DechanDawa: Very intriguing stuff. Does this practice you are doing have a name? Most therapy and psychology stuff I have read insists that healing from trauma or core emotional wounds requires another person, in the form of a therapist. The social brain thing, plus the influence of a (theoretically) grounded person's presence to help with emotional and nervous system regulation.

That does sound like a lot of work but might be worth it. Big problem for me is that i have tried so many things without success that I'd be telling myself it won't work before even starting.

I feel like i need to re-engage with the T who devastated and re-traumatized me last year, because I need that tangible link to all the suffering in order to work it out.

Intresteing about the gut stuff. Does seem to be the seat of so much stuff, second brain. An ND I saw called it the "center of the wheel" health wise.

Well, this person has made guided meditations so I can access them because I paid to download them. She also does Skype and phone consults. I had a pretty intense email exchange while I was getting the hang of her program. But basically she feels that the person can do their own work because she did, and many others do. What is also interesting is some people cycle through all this rapidly and make big changes in a very short period of time. I think you said it all when you talked about belief. If you believe in something then its more likely to work. I personally am not interested in all the extensive stuff about nurturing the child within. I want to become functional right here, right now, and as soon as possible. Two years working on this is a bit too long. I have explained what I took from this program, and didn't go into what I left.

I will never again do therapy. I personally am not going to trust anyone with my trauma issues. Because, well, that's why trauma happened to me, because I don't have a good sense of trust and seem to trust the wrong people. I'm working on trusting myself. Interesting that you want to go back and re-engage with that T. I wouldn't be one for doing that but then, that's because I have trust issues, haha. Well, maybe this is your way to be self directed in your healing and this is just all good, isn't it? This is how you have decided to do it. Belief, my friend, you just gotta believe. Good Luck. Happy Healing to us all.