Is your T genuine?

I did want to add that when I was at some of those meetings in which clients were degraded or mocked, there were genuine, confident and no-nonsense therapists who let others know that they didn't like or tolerate such talk and some cut off any such talk, even therapists who weren't "in-charge" or the one's running the meeting.

I've observed therapists who speak-up being mocked or ignored themselves, and more than a few didn't back down in the face of pressure from their colleagues. I've sat in case meetings where the professional leading the meeting was vigilant about not allowing anyone to engage in degrading talk or sarcasm, cynicism or inappropriate humor. So what I'm saying is that I don't mean to paint the entire profession of psychotherapy/psychiatry/psychology with the "ugly" brush. There are very ethical and genuine therapists out there, but what makes me sad is that I wasn't always able to tell who was who.

A few therapists who I thought were highly ethical and genuine actually ended up surprising me by being exactly what I thought they weren't. These were therapists who I thought, from watching them with clients, were well-trained and genuine. I guess what I'm saying is I can't always tell so I can't worry about whether or not my therapist is joking or judging me when I'm not around. I have to believe based on how she treats me in session that she's not doing that and accept that at face value. Otherwise, I'd be tying myself up in a knot and worrying about something I have absolutely NO control over.

**** T if he judges me. I'm FABULOUS.

Haha. But seriously, I think my T's intentions are genuine even when particular comments fail the 'genuine' test so miserably they actually become funny. I remember having the following conversation after apologizing for calling in the midst of a panic attack:

Me: "So, sorry again about that."
T: "If it makes you feel any better, people call me all the time."
Me: "Really? That sounds dreadful."
T: "Oh, you know, It's not a big deal. I...care."

I don't know what it was, he just seemed to lose such conviction in between the "I" and the "care" it was like a balloon deflating. If I were to novelize it, his character would be "Overworked Social worker" and the sentence would be " 'I...care,' he finished lamely."

It was actually oddly comforting to realize he could be such a terrible liar, and somehow the whole thing was incredibly funny. Which, ironically, showed that therapy was working: I never would have been able to laugh if my self-worth had been all wrapped up in this other person's caring and what he supposedly secretly thought of me.

What other people 'secretly think' of you is so completely inaccessible there's something self-obsessed about even worrying about it. How can you assume people 'secretly think' anything at all about you, let alone something positive/negative?

I mean, why would the disheartening thought between the "I" and the "care" have to be about me at all? Why assume it was something like, "Gosh, Argo's such a whiner," when it just as easily (more likely?) could have been, "I'm tired and this chair hurts my ***."

Anyway, just my two cents.

Hey, I resemble this post! My therapy is all about me, and my therapist darn well better be thinking about me ALL the time

Great post, Argo

I have no idea if T is being genuine or not. I don't know what she's thinking. No more than I know what any of you out there are thinking. I don't know T outside of therapy so she's basically a complete stranger that way. There's no way for me to really know if she's genuine or not. T's have a "role" to play. They either play it well or they don't. If they don't, find another T that does...I guess.
What I'm basically saying is that as long as it appears to me, or as long as it feels as if T is being genuine with me, and the therapy relationship is working, then I'm OK.

I thought I had a genuine T but it turns out that I was wrong.

I agree with this. Makes a lot of sense.

Maybe what really matters is if one believes their therapist is genuine (if that type of thing matters to you).

I think to some extent the answer is in the question. Seems to me if one is always wondering is T genuine, it probably means you don't have enough information to know. How can you judge a person's authenticity from a scripted role?

In the outside world you have mutuality and more natural give and take from which to draw conclusions.

I feel my t is very genuine. He's very caring and thoughtful, too.

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I agree with you too, I think good Ts are genuine or try to be. Sometimes they even need to be taught to be genuine, given that the role they need to play as therapists confuses them too and it can be emotionally taxing on a T as well.

But I think it was Carl Rogers and the whole humanistic tradition that brought therapy back to basics of relating as opposed to pure technique (of behaviorism and psychoanalysis), and importance of therapist trying to be genuine and to relate with patients at the most basic human level.

Of course to be genuine, therapists would need to be either compassionate as people or be open to being taught how to be compassionate for others. Which is a reason why not anybody can be a therapist (or surgeon or car mechanic or news anchor...). Or at least not a good one.

If one feels compassion for a someone who is struggling and suffering, which means come to really understand how their life has been difficult and caused them pain, the genuine reaction would be to care.

Some people don't realize that to be genuine is also beneficial to the therapist who feels more connected with the patient. It's sort of like going to a friend who is struggling and you tear up. In that moment you are connecting with your friend. Which is different from turning away from it, which the friend would find uncaring and also the person themselves more distant from their friend in their hour of need.

For people who are afraid of emotions, of course, it might give them some sort of comfort to think all therapists are faking it. Because that's what they would do, they imagine, in similar circumstances, to protect themselves, from a patient or friend or neighbor or classmate's suffering.

If it works for someone - that is all that matters as far as I can see it. I believe the ones I see are not genuine. It works for me. If they are secretly genuine - it has no bearing on me as long as they keep on hiding it from me. Which they do well at the moment. From my professional and in my real life experience - I have actively seen therapists not be genuine and be fairly open about their lack of it as long as they were not around clients. The reason I find it better to have a therapist who is not genuine has nothing at all to do with how I relate to real people in my life nor from a fear of emotion.

If others find believing theirs are genuine - have at it. Those of us who find comfort in their lack of genuinity are not in any way stopping the belief in nor the actuality of (should it be real) genuineness in therapists in general nor of any specific one them.

That sounds a lot like training to be an actor. Just sayin...

But what if (to paraphrase Ferenczi) the T has so many difficulties of their own that they cannot realistically truly care about the client's, or perhaps even listen in a genuine way? Or what if the T just does not like the client? Or what if the T knows they need to express compassion but they are just not feeling it? In all these scenarios should they nevertheless act the part of compassionate caregiver?

At what point do these various twists and turns strangle the authenticity out of the relationship?

I thought my main T was genuine. I suppose she was in some ways. But largely it was genuineness in the context of a very particular role she was playing. When I tried to change my role and hence hers, she did not like it and became someone quite different. I was deceived by her initial acting job and by my own neediness and desperation.

I think that's ok. You don't know what your T was thinking, but they're only human. It sounds like, no matter how they really felt at that moment, they were there for you. Being there for you shows they did care. In some way you connected personally.

I don't ask my T if she cares or anything like that. I know she cares enough to see me, virtually for free. I know she wants to help. If she wants to tell me she cares she will. I desperately want someone to care, but it is what it is. Some things I wouldn't ask because I wouldn't, other things I don't ask because I want to hear them and I want it to be real. I may never hear them, but I can't put her on the spot. (If it were my GF, wife, or best buddy I might ask.)

I think you already know that even if your T has never said "I care" overtly, her actions show that she does. Even if you never ask your T if she cares, I think you should talk about desperately wanting someone to care--what does it mean to you? Why does it feel like something you're missing?

Anyway, I think it's good you believe your T is pretty good about being genuine and that you know she wants to help. That gnawing little insecurity that "What if so-and-so secretly thinks I'm a tool?" yeah, I think everybody can relate, with other people even if not with their T. It takes work not to worry about. If it bothers you in other areas of your life (I was once PLAGUED by it, and it still worries me from time to time) I'd encourage you to talk about that, too.

Take care!

PS: and, yeah, I thought it was okay, too. My T does seem to care, even if, for whatever reason, he sort of failed to say it out loud

Just a question about this part: Are you saying that therapists can't be genuine because of the nature of therapy, which as you sort of imply, best it can do is provide "genuineness in the context of a very particular role"?

If so, do you see this limitation as something unique to psychotherapy or every professional role in our whole society?

I feel like my T is genuine. I can see expressions on her face from time to time, and she tells me stories about her life sometimes -- her vacations, her husband, her kids, other clients in similar situations (of course following HIPAA, and half the time the stories are from years ago anyway since she's been in practice so long). And while she does these things, I don't think she ever crosses ethical/professional boundaries.

I think my T is pretty genuine. I've worked with her long enough, and in varied enough situations that I tend to believe what she says. It doesn't necessarily stop me from questioning her, or keep me from looking for reassurances from her, but I take what she presents at face value. We are able to disagree about things while talking them over in a mature, adult manner. If there are things she believes I am wrong about, she confronts me, and the same from my end.

Yes something like that. Seems a therapist can be genuine in some sense, but given that therapist self-disclosure and transparency are considered inappropriate, isn't it by definition a partial or quasi-authenticity? Or maybe the main question is -- to what extent can the client even know to whom they are talking?

Seems like it applies to others too, doctors would be an obvious one. But therapy to me is entirely different because of the intense intimacy, the level of client exposure and vulnerability, and the fact that psychological and emotional material is the main thing being exchanged.