searching for a new T following bad therapy

What is it about a life coach or therapist that qualifies them to help a person achieve life goals? Why couldn't the client advise the coach on life goals?

I have a relative who sees a life coach. He has trouble making decisions so he outsources part of that process to some guy who is apparently an expert in such things. Seems to me the primary unexamined assumption is that the coach has earned the right to give life advice simply by virtue of using the title "life coach".

People who employ a life coach go there because they are looking for advice and guidance. The life coach has earned the "right" by virtue of being employed for that purpose.

A life coach is not the same thing as a therapist by the way, particularly when it comes to educational credentials. Pretty much anyone can hang out their life coach sign from what I understand. No particular degree or licensing required as far as I know. (Anyone know differently?)

If you don't believe in anyone being able to give you advice, then you wouldn't be hiring a life coach. I'm not really understanding your point in saying a client could give the life coach or therapist advice. Yeah,maybe I guess, but the life coach or therapist doesn't hire you to give them advice. And as client, if you don't want advice, then you need to communicate that to the therapist or life coach.

Offended as a client? I'm offended, as a client, by those assumptions. I don't see that my pointing them out is offensive though. I'm calling out the biz, not clients. I think most people are more capable and more competent than they think, and the biz likes that, and will exploit it. Not maliciously, but it's an implicit message in much of the marketing (examples below).

"new skills, increased self-awareness, insight, help create the life you want"

"increase personal insight and change behaviors or beliefs"

"help you live your life to your fullest potential"

I hear you. That is closer to what I have looked for in therapy. So for you is it an intellectual process then, of T transferring knowledge? I have acquired a pretty decent chunk of knowledge about psychology and trauma, but hasn't helped beyond intellectual understanding, which is not healing for me.

I still think majority of T's do see themselves as a class apart and obligated to give advice. I have never met one (out of 25 or so I have talked to or worked with) who did not demonstrate this in some way.

I did a consult with one last year who seemed pretty good and on the level. Acknowledged up front the power imbalance and the danger of it. She was not pushy or controlling. But twenty minutes after meeting me she had already slipped in some life advice -- I said I was considering separating from my significant other and she said "oh don't do that". And so it begins...

I'm neither offended by these assumptions or by your pointing them out (did I give that impression? Didn't mean to).

I can see why others would be offended by these assumptions, and I can also see where pointing them out would ruffle some feathers.

Well, therapy is a business and therapists do need to pay the bills. In pre therapy times, people with conflicts would seek the advice of a wise elder or religious authority. Since most Western societies have moved in a more secular direction, the field of therapy emerged as a way of people getting this kind of help without personal or religious bias. BudFox, I understand your skepticism about the field, given your experiences, but I do hope you are not setting yourself up for disappointment at the same time. Going into therapy with clear goals and informing the therapist about your own boundaries (ie, not giving direct advice) would be a good starting point.

Been thinking about this. As one who has been through damaging therapy, i feel like i am continually up against a system that will defend itself aggressively against attempts to look too closely at its inner workings and assumptions.

So when i talk to therapists about my prior therapy and the harm done, they will first attempt to make it about me. Failing that they will suggest my therapist might have messed up a bit, with the implication that it was an isolated incident. At this point things are a bit uneasy but still functional. But if i make any assertion about systemic problems, there is suddenly defensiveness, hostility, awkward silence, or they become aloof. I have faced hostility here on PC as well.

A system that is healthy should invite scrutiny. But instead it seems to resent too much honesty from the client, preferring to maintain shared delusions (in my experience). The client is expected to practice ruthless self honesty and self awareness but dont expect that to be reciprocated (in my experience).

And so the clients who've had the worst outcomes have to worry about ruffling feathers rarher than getting some much needed honesty. Makes me sick to my stomach.

So youre morgan spurlock and psychotherapy is mcdonalds. Or michael moore vs general motors. Or karl marx vs capitalism? Im not saying youre not. Just saying if youre serious about this, youre probably not the first. So who are you trying to convince? Who are your existing allies? Where are you going with this?

I am an existing ally.
Does it matter if someone is not the first? Don't people deserve the information of both good and bad to make decisions?

I heard something once; you probably couldn't use it with a t but it sure would be amazing, real and eye-opening. The question is: What are your issues? I asked my t and he told me.

Just saying that if you are not the first, there are resources out there for you. Its a good thing.

Not to force an “I am Spartacus” moment here or anything, but I’d like to consider myself an existing ally, too.

I’m sorry you are facing such hostility. You have already been ****ed over by one therapist and don’t deserve to be ****ed over again by a wider system that wants to write you off as some clownish activist with an axe to grind.

No, what I am talking about is nothing like life coaching and involves skills used by trained therapists. They are more rooted in existential theory of psychology an client centered approaches. I am not a fan of a therapist acting as parent/ client as child. To me Ts who claim to be able to heal with any techniques based on this are full of BS and likely use smoke and mirrors. That is why they can't explain what they are doing- they don't really know.

Where I go to school the assumption is not that the T holds some higher power or greater insight into their clients. It is widely acknowledged that clients are the holder of that information. One of my first and favorite professors told is that first and foremost we are NOT healers and to please wipe that notion out of out heads. Surgeons heal, therapists do not. I know the field itself may promote this, and I do see it as a problem. The Ts I've met who think this way tend to be arrogant, blame clients and use other behaviors I've heard on here. Those are people I stay far away from when I look for a T, and I would advise others to do the same. I really think that kind of therapy is risky territory for anyone in a vulnerable state to be in.

Not to knock the local allies, but i was thinking bigger picture. If there is indeed a systemic failure, then is there a system already in place looking at it? Jeffrey Masson comes to mind, off the top of my head. We always said at work, dont reinvent the wheel.

Why do i have to be going somewhere with this?

BTW you sound like a life coach.

Thanks re: the ally thing. I'm not looking for allies necessarily and certainly not sympathy. It's just simple venting. If nobody responds no big deal.

It was actually several therapists involved in the getting screwed over. Thats the point. I've found that therapists are happy to take on nearly any issue the client presents, except for prior harmful therapy. Mention that and their face darkens, there is hand wringing, uncomfortable silence, and then the real magic show begins -- a gaslighting extravaganza.

ps. I think you called me a clownish activist indirectly.

Okay, i'll shut up. But i cant not watch

Yes I do think some people see therapists as a sort of wise elder type. I can see making the comparison, but I totally reject it. You do not become a wise elder or wise anything by studying psych theory in school. I'm sure there are some therapists who possess this sort of wisdom, but how many?

The disappointment is in the rear view mirror. I have no plans to go into therapy right now. But I'm wondering in what way I might be setting myself up for further disappointment if I did? Not sure what you mean.

I am rarely all that bothered by anything that is said here, but I find this truly offensive. Why are you here?

Youre standing in the middle of the room, shouting. A support room. But you say you dont want support. Okay then.

Shouting? Where did I say I don't want support? Anyway, you're not giving support, you're apparently here for your own amusement and to try to be clever. FYI, it's getting old.

Whatever. You see harm where none was intended.

This thread is being closed for administrative review.