[SarahSweden]

Now I´ve talked to my T about our relationship as many told me to do and I´m glad I did it, that I got the courage to do so. The result was not that uplifting though, more of another reason to end this therapy as well.

I told my T I feel rejected at the end when she sometimes just leaves for her desk and hardly says goodbye. Sometimes she has followed me to the door and when I explained this inconsistency makes me wonder she told me she does this to frustrate me!

She means such behaviour brings my problems forward, that I for example feel rejected, but for me this just tells me she can´t be trusted. Or what am I supposed to believe?

I also told her I don´t like when she takes notes all the time and she agreed this can be a way of loosing a bit of contact during session but she kept taking notes although she made a little more eye contact than before.

Overall I felt she listened and understood but she kept explaining herself and her theoretical beliefs and that she won´t change to make me feel better.

I think this will just be another therapy failure, I waited for several months to get to see this T and now there´s no other at this facility.

I would rather a therapist be upfront rather than try to induce frustration in a client. That is strange and disconcerting. I hope you can find some way to gain peace and healing in your life but this therapist might not be the way.

This ts methods worry me, like puzzle bug says I would rather a t be upfront too.

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My therapist would just type everything i said into the computer... and nod, agree with me, confirm what i said and at the end said see you next time. They all seem to do it these days to type the notes so they don't forget while talking to you cause they have back to back clients. It may seem distracting but if it works for them to stay current then so be it. I know the feeling but it is the way the world is today, everyone is so busy taking notes you do feel ignored in a way... tc and blessings

I would never take notes during a session. I find it very rude and gives the message that your are distracted and not available. Notes are for after a session.

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[divine1966]

It might be ok to take a bit of notes but not non stop! How rude.

My t never takes notes when I am there yet remembers everything and she is in mid
60s and is booked solid all day. How is this t can't remember anything?

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[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by omegalamed

My therapist would just type everything i said into the computer... and nod, agree with me, confirm what i said and at the end said see you next time. They all seem to do it these days to type the notes so they don't forget while talking to you cause they have back to back clients. It may seem distracting but if it works for them to stay current then so be it. I know the feeling but it is the way the world is today, everyone is so busy taking notes you do feel ignored in a way... tc and blessings

I have never had a therapist do this. I wouldn't even call it therapy. It would be like talking to someone ghostwriting your autobiography, not helping you. Do you find this method helpful?

OP, consciously frustrating the client seems like another way to say "playing mind games" to me.

[unaluna]

I have talked to my t about this common technique of theirs. I told current t it doesnt wok with me, because i am at the end of my rope and i do not need MORE frustration. I got enough of that from my family. I need a non-crazy person to talk to. I dont need to be "tested" to see what the real me is like. The real me is this close to screaming and not stopping - why exactly do they want to frustrate me? THEN you can get down to the business of, what help do you need.

My t will push me sometimes, but being so inconsistent and frustrating you on purpose? That would be maddening to me. I'm sorry you're dealing with that. I rarely notice my t taking notes, she must do it but is very unobtrusive about it, she remembers everything.... it's amazing... so she must be taking more notes than I notice. My sessions usuallyk feel very natural and conversational.

Hey SarahSweden,

In the object relations perspective, frustration just means that you are not getting your needs met (eg, need for approval; need for reassurance, etc). You have talked about not 'feeling' things in therapy in the past, like it wasn't 'doing' anything. Well, this will certainly make you feel things and feel like it is doing things! It might actually catapult you to the past, where you will feel your childhood feelings. That's what happened to me but happens to others as well. I think the degree of unmet needs correlates with the degree of transference intensity. Part of her job is to make sure it isn't too intense.

I don't know what to say about the note taking, except that it could be more temporary while she is doing an assessment. Consider not throwing the towel in just yet. Can you give it a try? Two positive things here-she explained to you what she was doing. That doesn't seem to be the usual. She's upfront, direct, seems more honest. Second, it sounds like she can talk about the relationship without it affecting her. in other words, you can spend each and every session discussing things like you said here: "I told my T I feel rejected at the end when she sometimes just leaves for her desk and hardly says goodbye." That's the kind of stuff I talk about with my therapist a lot, and it has helped me in many ways.

What she is doing may also creates a huge space between her and you, where you can feel your feelings really intensely and learn about your true self. Every little bitty emotion is magnified. No, it's not for everyone, but she sounds like one of the safer types of therapist to me. Non-reactive, can talk about your negative feelings towards her, take your anger and not flinch. This is good. One word of caution-if therapy is like this all the time, that would not be good. But it might just be like this at the beginning to draw out your emotions. Then you will form a bond.

Of course, no one can make substantial conclusions from a few threads and posts, but these are my thoughts. Sending you some encouragement. I hope you give it a try.

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I think this will just be another therapy failure, I waited for several months to get to see this T and now there´s no other at this facility.

This is the only facility that you are able to see, right? Is there only one T, and that is the one you see? Hmmmm...quite a quandry, I agree. I am not sure what I'd do in this situation.

Originally Posted by omegalamed

My therapist would just type everything i said into the computer... and nod, agree with me, confirm what i said and at the end said see you next time. They all seem to do it these days to type the notes so they don't forget while talking to you cause they have back to back clients. It may seem distracting but if it works for them to stay current then so be it. I know the feeling but it is the way the world is today, everyone is so busy taking notes you do feel ignored in a way... tc and blessings

I was seeing my regular doctor for psychiatric meds, and once I got this nurse who took me to the room, turned her back to me, opened her laptop and proceeded to run down the list of my "symptoms" of my depression....she NEVER looked at me once, and I was so confused why someone I had never met was asking me such personal details, with no apparent care...and was my doctor even there that day?! It was all extremely anxious-making, and I was so worked up when my doctor came in, that I blurted all that out. I have never seen that nurse again, and even though the nurses still ask me very personal questions that I wish ONLY my doctor would ask, they do it much more personable. My long rant is to show how AWFUL this therapist is!! UGH.

Originally Posted by divine1966

It might be ok to take a bit of notes but not non stop! How rude.

My t never takes notes when I am there yet remembers everything and she is in mid
60s and is booked solid all day. How is this t can't remember anything?

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My T sees clients back to back...as in she opens the door and says goodbye to her previous client, and then says "Velcro, come back!" Her memory is ridiculous. I think I've said my cat's name to her about twice, but if she ever talks about him, she uses his name. She must write stuff down at some point....I just don't know when. It is crazy to me, especially because I have a terrible memory.

[divine1966]

It's crazy to me too. Totally crazy. I only see my t now for check ups. I have seen my t at Christmas time and now again this week. I mentioned some casual things last time and she brought it up this week (random things like name of my fiancée's sister or date for my nephews wedding). I talk about a lot of things I don't know how she could remember. I don't know when she writes as she has no break in between.

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[Luce]

Good on you for having the courage to talk to her about it. It sounds like you got some valuable feedback... not really the feedback you were wanting, but it seems like it was valuable nonetheless.

I briefly saw one therapist who took notes the entire time. She had very little verbal input, she just really nodded and wrote. I hated it. it felt very cold and informal and I didn't get anything out of it.
I didn't stay with her very long... pretty much just long enough to figure out I definitely didn't want to pay for what she was offering.

[SarahSweden]

My former T never took notes but as this current T is within public health care she has a larger number of patients and not that much time between sessions. But I find it inacceptable though as it keeps us from getting a good contact during session and I´ve also mentioned it to her but she didn´t bother that much.

Originally Posted by divine1966

It might be ok to take a bit of notes but not non stop! How rude.

My t never takes notes when I am there yet remembers everything and she is in mid
60s and is booked solid all day. How is this t can't remember anything?

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[SarahSweden]

I already despise this T and I would never be able to work with her. You gave me interesting information about the object relations and I now understand more about her tactics.

I also read quite a lot about this and frustrating a client in a conscious manner demands there is a strong relationship. I´ve just seen her about 10 times and she has never shown she wants a good relationship between us.

Sure it brings up feelings but at the same time a huge portion of distrust and that totally erased the possibility to work with her. As she consciously changes her way of saying goodbye, that is sometimes following me to the door and sometimes not, makes me just realise she will manipulate me in other ways to.

I won´t be able to know if she´s authentic in what she says or means or if it´s part of her method and a way of getting reactions from me. By that there is no trust either.

Originally Posted by ex vivo

Hey SarahSweden,

In the object relations perspective, frustration just means that you are not getting your needs met (eg, need for approval; need for reassurance, etc). You have talked about not 'feeling' things in therapy in the past, like it wasn't 'doing' anything. Well, this will certainly make you feel things and feel like it is doing things! It might actually catapult you to the past, where you will feel your childhood feelings. That's what happened to me but happens to others as well. I think the degree of unmet needs correlates with the degree of transference intensity. Part of her job is to make sure it isn't too intense.

I don't know what to say about the note taking, except that it could be more temporary while she is doing an assessment. Consider not throwing the towel in just yet. Can you give it a try? Two positive things here-she explained to you what she was doing. That doesn't seem to be the usual. She's upfront, direct, seems more honest. Second, it sounds like she can talk about the relationship without it affecting her. in other words, you can spend each and every session discussing things like you said here: "I told my T I feel rejected at the end when she sometimes just leaves for her desk and hardly says goodbye." That's the kind of stuff I talk about with my therapist a lot, and it has helped me in many ways.

What she is doing may also creates a huge space between her and you, where you can feel your feelings really intensely and learn about your true self. Every little bitty emotion is magnified. No, it's not for everyone, but she sounds like one of the safer types of therapist to me. Non-reactive, can talk about your negative feelings towards her, take your anger and not flinch. This is good. One word of caution-if therapy is like this all the time, that would not be good. But it might just be like this at the beginning to draw out your emotions. Then you will form a bond.

Of course, no one can make substantial conclusions from a few threads and posts, but these are my thoughts. Sending you some encouragement. I hope you give it a try.

[SarahSweden]

Yes, at this facility there is only this T and there are no cooperations between facilities and you don´t get any referalls. You´re on your own if you decide there is no match between you and a T.

Originally Posted by velcro003

This is the only facility that you are able to see, right? Is there only one T, and that is the one you see? Hmmmm...quite a quandry, I agree. I am not sure what I'd do in this situation.

I was seeing my regular doctor for psychiatric meds, and once I got this nurse who took me to the room, turned her back to me, opened her laptop and proceeded to run down the list of my "symptoms" of my depression....she NEVER looked at me once, and I was so confused why someone I had never met was asking me such personal details, with no apparent care...and was my doctor even there that day?! It was all extremely anxious-making, and I was so worked up when my doctor came in, that I blurted all that out. I have never seen that nurse again, and even though the nurses still ask me very personal questions that I wish ONLY my doctor would ask, they do it much more personable. My long rant is to show how AWFUL this therapist is!! UGH.

My T sees clients back to back...as in she opens the door and says goodbye to her previous client, and then says "Velcro, come back!" Her memory is ridiculous. I think I've said my cat's name to her about twice, but if she ever talks about him, she uses his name. She must write stuff down at some point....I just don't know when. It is crazy to me, especially because I have a terrible memory.

[Pennster]

Is it some kind of Gestalt thing, Sarah? I do recall reading something about intentionally frustrating the client once but I don't recall where. I have never experienced it from a therapist and I think it seems like a tough thing to experience from a new therapist in particular. And I feel like it would be something that could potentially be unsafe when someone is dealing with a background with a lot of trauma. I imagine it would be a helpful technique for some and harmful for others, and I'd hope a therapist would put a lot of thought into figuring out how to use it judiciously in any case.

I feel for you. This sounds very uncomfortable.

[SarahSweden]

It´s unbelievable how some T:s are allowed to practise, just taking notes and nod is nothing near real therapy. Good you had the opportunity to seek another T.

Originally Posted by Luce

Good on you for having the courage to talk to her about it. It sounds like you got some valuable feedback... not really the feedback you were wanting, but it seems like it was valuable nonetheless.

I briefly saw one therapist who took notes the entire time. She had very little verbal input, she just really nodded and wrote. I hated it. it felt very cold and informal and I didn't get anything out of it.
I didn't stay with her very long... pretty much just long enough to figure out I definitely didn't want to pay for what she was offering.

[SarahSweden]

No, it´s a traditional psychodynamic therapy with a psychoanalytical orientation. I think my T values her theoretical belief more than listening to a client and try to be a bit adaptive.

Originally Posted by Pennster

Is it some kind of Gestalt thing, Sarah? I do recall reading something about intentionally frustrating the client once but I don't recall where. I have never experienced it from a therapist and I think it seems like a tough thing to experience from a new therapist in particular. And I feel like it would be something that could potentially be unsafe when someone is dealing with a background with a lot of trauma. I imagine it would be a helpful technique for some and harmful for others, and I'd hope a therapist would put a lot of thought into figuring out how to use it judiciously in any case.

I feel for you. This sounds very uncomfortable.

I'm confused how being cold to a client, then analyzing the resulting duress is therapeutic?

Maybe I'm missing the point of therapy, but I have a philosophical objection to a therapist recreating unhealthy dynamics just to observe what a client could have told them from the start. Seems controlling and hurtful. This type of behavior wouldn't be helpful to me and would undermine my trust in the consistency of my therapist.

I like that she admitted what she was doing though...

[JaneTennison1]

I never understand how frustrating a client on purpose provokes healing and not just the urge to tell the T to shove it./ Ugh. I'm sorry for this Sarah, can you ask for a refer within the clinic or get on a waiting list while you see this T? At least you'd have something while you wait.

[divine1966]

Sorry but no freaking way I'd remain with therapist who deliberately tries to frustrate me! Wtf. Like there is not enough frustration in life?

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[Pennster]

Yes, I keep thinking about this one. My therapist really actively works to form alliances with the more helpful dimensions of myself, so we are both working on strengthening the productive, constructive, positive thoughts that can lead me to working more on the activities and goals I want to move toward. I realize it's a totally different mode of working, but it would be very painful to think that my therapist and I were not on the same page.

[divine1966]

I wonder if it is done to teach a client to be assertive. That is a backwards way though. I could see if it was a role play and a t was upfront about it. Like " I pretend to be and do XYZ and now how would you react?". I do it with my students at times as role playing is a common technique when they can safely practice asserting themselves or managing some situations they have hard time managing. But that cannot be done properly if one isn't up front. It just isn't safe!

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Originally Posted by divine1966

I wonder if it is done to teach a client to be assertive. That is a backwards way though. I could see if it was a role play and a t was upfront about it. Like " I pretend to be and do XYZ and now how would you react?". I do it with my students at times as role playing is a common technique when they can safely practice asserting themselves or managing some situations they have hard time managing. But that cannot be done properly if one isn't up front. It just isn't safe!

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Right!

We are all adults here - and anything other than transparency is dangerous game playing IMO.