I think this is an interesting article.

Stanley Siegel, LCSW - Achieving Failure: "The Patient Who Cured His Therapist" - Psychology Tomorrow MagazinePsychology Tomorrow Magazine

[stopdog]

It was interesting. I despised the author as much as the woman therapist.

Originally Posted by stopdog

It was interesting. I despised the author as much as the woman therapist.

LOL.

I see what you're saying. I loathe the arrogance many of them have. Not saying that is what you mean, but the writer was, in my opinion, arrogant.

Very interesting. And I'm not sure how I feel about this part

"(That alone struck me as ominous – and it still does, whenever I ponder the implicit dangers of the artificial sanctity of the patient-therapist relationship. How wise are we, as patients, to entrust so subjective a science to the interpretive view of one practitioner, let alone to ensure, through a nearly sacramental secrecy, that his performance will go forever unexamined?)"

I think it really bugs me.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by puzzle_bug1987

LOL.

I see what you're saying. I loathe the arrogance many of them have. Not saying that is what you mean, but the writer was, in my opinion, arrogant.

Oh yes - arrogance with respect to the author is, in my opinion, an understatement.

[CantExplain]

I wanted to cure Madame T but she wouldn't let me.

I actually enjoyed the article. Thanks for posting it. And yes, I do agree that the author was a bit full of himself, but what I did appreciate about the article is that the author did something that I would like any therapist I'm seeing to do on a regular basis--meet me where I am. I HATE when therapists listen for a few minutes and then immediately jump in attempting to "change" someone. Jeesh, but that's arrogant. I liked how he sat with the guy and really listened and contemplated why the man might be responding in the way he did. His contemplation lead him to realize that the guy wasn't studdering, or squirming in discomfort during the silences; the man was genuinely comfortable sitting and considering his responses--he was comfortable in his own skin, not something many of us, therapist's included, feel during silences. I give the therapist a lot of credit for holding back, sitting with the client and really considering on a deep level what the man's silences could mean. He actually recognized that the client didn't need to change one darn thing about himself, instead, he realized the girlfriend and the other therapist were the ones with a problem.

I think it does point out how dangerous therapy can be with an unskilled therapist who has little self-awareness or self-control. Too many therapists go in with preconceived notions about what's wrong with a client. And too many are too full of themselves to realize that what happens in the room is created by two people, not just the client.

I also liked his creativity when he suggested that the client "treat" his therapist. I have to give credit to his therapist when she went into the room and actually followed through with the experiment. Not too many professionals are willing to take off their cloak and expose themselves like this and I include all professions, not just therapists! People are usually uncomfortable and not willing to step out of their cloak of professionalism in the manner she did. Granted, I don't think it's something most would do unless they were in a situation like the one she was in--she'd asked for the consultation expecting for all to agree with her assessment of the client or she wanted satisfaction in stumping the expert, but then when she found that things weren't going the way she expected, she perhaps went along with the experiment because her colleagues were watching. I can't see most therapists doing this on their own, but that's the pessimist in me.

[unaluna]

jaybird

Geez its like a truman capote conference all up in here. Could people BE any more cynical?! i enjoyed the article also.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by unaluna

jaybird

Geez its like a truman capote conference all up in here. Could people BE any more cynical?! i enjoyed the article also.

What? I enjoyed the article even though I found all the therapists arrogant and condescending. What is cynical about that?

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

What? I enjoyed the article even though I found all the therapists arrogant and condescending. What is cynical about that?

Google the definition of cynical. Im not using it wrong, as far as i can tell.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Google the definition of cynical. Im not using it wrong, as far as i can tell.

I am fine with the definition of cynical - I just don't understand why acknowledging how arrogant the therapist was as being it. The guy who wrote it, in my opinion, was an asshole in his whole attitude towards the endeavor. That is not cynicism - that is just reading the way the guy wrote it.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I am fine with the definition of cynical - I just don't understand why acknowledgine arrogant the therapist was as being it. The guy who wrote it, in my opinion, was an asshole in his whole attitude towards the endeavor. That is not cynicism - that is just reading the way the guy wrote it.

Thats what cynical means - believing the attitude is in the other person. I looked it up - you had me thinking i was using it wrong. I thought you were calling my bluff!.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Google the definition of cynical. Im not using it wrong, as far as i can tell.

Don't you know SD's a Diogenist at heart? Always looking for the honest therapist? (i.e., SD's a true Cynic)

[stopdog]

Ah but in the case the attitude is in the other person - it is not cynical when it is true.
I don't mind being called cynical when I am being and I often am (a cynical nihilist)- but here the guy is obviously and without shame being an arrogant asshole.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Ah but in the case the attitude is in the other person - it is not cynical if it is true.

That "if" is bigger than my bloomers!

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by unaluna

That "if" is bigger than my bloomers!

Nothing is bigger than your bloomers.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by unaluna

That "if" is bigger than my bloomers!

It is not cynicism when it is true.

[rainbow8]

I liked the article and I didn't think the author was arrogant. I was impressed that the client's T went along with him and agreed to be the client, though. I wish I could be my T's T in my session one time. It would be interesting!

[velcro003]

Originally Posted by stopdog

It is not cynicism when it is true.

according to who's truth?

i agree he was a bit full of it....but just playing devil's advocate here

[here today]

Originally Posted by unaluna

jaybird

Geez its like a truman capote conference all up in here. Could people BE any more cynical?! i enjoyed the article also.

What's wrong with being cynical? This ^ sounds like a value judgment to me.

However, I googled "cynical" and don't find Stopdog's earlier comments cynical. Here's the first thing that came up on my Google page:

distrusting or disparaging the motives of others; like or characteristic of a cynic. 2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, especially by actions that exploit the scruples of others. 3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.

Stopdog said that she despised the therapists and found the author of the article to be arrogant. Despising someone and finding them arrogant doesn't seem to me to fit the definition of cynical. I can find people arrogant without totally disparaging their motives. Arrogance could just be a characteristic of their being, not their motives in a particular situation.

The article was very intriguing, not entirely in an enjoyable way to me. But very worthwhile to read.

[unaluna]

Here today - thanks for posting the def. I wasnt singling out stopdog, it was more the negative chorus of voices. I just didnt hear the arrogance. But i have been told in the past that i am too sympathetic towards men.

Google Page: distrusting or disparaging the motives of others; like or characteristic of a cynic. 2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, especially by actions that exploit the scruples of others. 3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.

I can only speak for myself, but I proudly consider myself to be a complete cynic. I am often cynical (ie. distrusting and/or disparaging) when looking at people's motives, especially therapists, physicians, lawyers, politicians, teachers and religious leaders. It doesn't mean that I can't be around them or forge friendships with them, but I am totally suspicious and "cynical" of their motives in all situations. I don't think that's a terrible thing to be. And I also freely admit that I am often accused of being unsympathetic when it comes to men (the exact opposite of you, Unaluna).

That said, I like how the consultant therapist handled the situation. Yeah, he was a bit of an arrogant whatever, but he was thoughtful and willing to try something unconventional and different. In my book, that earned him more points than his arrogant self-admiration. Someone like that would be fun to do therapy with because I could be off-the-wall and he'd respond in kind.

[stopdog]

I thought ex-hankster was just teasing with me (even though she meant it - I took it as playing).
For me - his arrogant self-admiration is more than I could tolerate. I have never been accused of being too sympathetic to men (or therapists of any gender for that matter)

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by here today

Arrogance could just be a characteristic of their being, not their motives in a particular situation.

The article was very intriguing, not entirely in an enjoyable way to me. But very worthwhile to read.

I agree.

[here today]

I sent my T a copy of this this week. She is going to a conference where she said that she might get some good ideas. But it seems like this may be the best one. We'll see.

I, for one, would like to help "cure" the profession as a whole. They haven't asked for a consultation, though. Still, I'll bet many of us who have been hurt would be willing to try to help prevent more harm, if anybody was interested.