[ScrewedUpMe]

Hi,

I haven't posted in quite a long time although I do read alot here...

I was just hoping for some input regarding some recent sessions with T...

We have had a few heavy sessions, one in which I told her that when I have an anger episode it makes it very difficult for me to survive it because I get very impulsive...we also talked about my past and difficult childhood issues...at the end of the session T was trying to show me how much she cared about me I think because she said "I love you...you're like a daughter to me". This overwhelmed me, it was more than I could ever hope for her to say to me as she is like a mum to me.

Today at the end of the session she said it's difficult for her because she struggles because she can only see me if I want to come...and that I am like her surrogate daughter...

Although I LOVE to hear these things...I wonder if this is going to make the relationship less professional or whether it's going to make me just want more and more and more from her...I have BPD and am in desperate need of a mother figure...which she has always been to me...

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

SuM

[Petra5ed]

I don't know SuM, I wish my therapist felt and said those things but he hasn't. In fact, he has gone out of his way to say that he wont tell me he loves me.

I can see why you would be concerned and elated at the same time. If it makes you feel better I was concerned and depressed when mine said he would never say he loves me. This sounds like a nice loving platonic relationship to me, but what do I know?

[ScrewedUpMe]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I don't know SuM, I wish my therapist felt and said those things but he hasn't. In fact, he has gone out of his way to say that he wont tell me he loves me.

I can see why you would be concerned and elated at the same time. If it makes you feel better I was concerned and depressed when mine said he would never say he loves me. This sounds like a nice loving platonic relationship to me, but what do I know?

Thanks Petra5ed. I do feel very very lucky as it's more than I could ever have wanted from her. And it is a very mutually caring relationship. Maybe I am worrying about nothing...I guess it just feels too good to be true!

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe

Thanks Petra5ed. I do feel very very lucky as it's more than I could ever have wanted from her. And it is a very mutually caring relationship. Maybe I am worrying about nothing...I guess it just feels too good to be true!

The only downside I can think of to her admission is if it makes it harder for you to disclose in therapy, or maybe even if it makes it harder for you to leave. Maybe with her feeling this way though, even if you do move on you two will stay in touch?

If it feels too good to be true, maybe sit with that feeling a while and bask in it! I know I would

[ScrewedUpMe]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

The only downside I can think of to her admission is if it makes it harder for you to disclose in therapy, or maybe even if it makes it harder for you to leave. Maybe with her feeling this way though, even if you do move on you two will stay in touch?

If it feels too good to be true, maybe sit with that feeling a while and bask in it! I know I would

Yeah I'm pretty sure we would stay in touch if and when we terminate, probably through email updates now and then. I don't think it would make it harder for me to leave as I have felt this way about her for SO long so if anything I think it would make it easier knowing that she felt it for me too

[BayBrony]

The only downside I see is if her saying she struggles if you don't choose to come in could make it harder for you to NOT go if you felt you needed space or something. My T is generally really careful to not "pressure" me in any way in that regard.... But it mostly sounds like a beautiful exchange

[ruh roh]

Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe

Hi,

I haven't posted in quite a long time although I do read alot here...

I was just hoping for some input regarding some recent sessions with T...

We have had a few heavy sessions, one in which I told her that when I have an anger episode it makes it very difficult for me to survive it because I get very impulsive...we also talked about my past and difficult childhood issues...at the end of the session T was trying to show me how much she cared about me I think because she said "I love you...you're like a daughter to me". This overwhelmed me, it was more than I could ever hope for her to say to me as she is like a mum to me.

Today at the end of the session she said it's difficult for her because she struggles because she can only see me if I want to come...and that I am like her surrogate daughter...

Although I LOVE to hear these things...I wonder if this is going to make the relationship less professional or whether it's going to make me just want more and more and more from her...I have BPD and am in desperate need of a mother figure...which she has always been to me...

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

SuM

I would find this concerning--you as a surrogate daughter, and her finding it hard to see you on your terms.

I would also imagine it's took late for you to separate from her, so maybe have a discussion about how to make this not so unsafe for you, because I tend to agree that you will crave more of it and there's no telling how it will go.

[HowDoYouFeelMeow?]

I feel your pain. That sounds exactly like what someone with BPD is longing to hear, but exactly the kind of thing that's not good for them in a therapy setting. Boundaries are hard to learn, and I'm afraid this could make it harder. At least you know you're loved, though!!

[ScrewedUpMe]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. In a way I think the fact that she seems to want to see me makes me feel more in control of the therapy. I am prone to feeling like I bother people and am not worth their time etc. and luckily I never have to feel like that with T because I know she likes to see me. I think because I have read so much about therapy and how it is 'supposed' to work, that I wondered if I should be concerned about it...

My husband said he wondered whether she was trying to infer that we should stop the therapy and see each other outside of that as friends but that she is unable to suggest it herself... I don't think so though, I think she just blurted it out as she was so concerned about me that day. She is human after all. And that's what I love about her

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe

Thanks everyone for your thoughts. In a way I think the fact that she seems to want to see me makes me feel more in control of the therapy. I am prone to feeling like I bother people and am not worth their time etc. and luckily I never have to feel like that with T because I know she likes to see me. I think because I have read so much about therapy and how it is 'supposed' to work, that I wondered if I should be concerned about it...

My husband said he wondered whether she was trying to infer that we should stop the therapy and see each other outside of that as friends but that she is unable to suggest it herself... I don't think so though, I think she just blurted it out as she was so concerned about me that day. She is human after all. And that's what I love about her

I think I have read too much about how therapy is supposed to work as well! I remember when my therapist first hugged me and I wondered if he was putting moves on me, and it took some rationalizing and finding others who are hugged before I realized sometimes a hug is just a hug.

If she said she loved you in month 2 of therapy that might be a red flag to me, but if it was something genuine and non-sexual I don't see a harm.

[ScrewedUpMe]

Originally Posted by Petra5ed

I think I have read too much about how therapy is supposed to work as well! I remember when my therapist first hugged me and I wondered if he was putting moves on me, and it took some rationalizing and finding others who are hugged before I realized sometimes a hug is just a hug.

If she said she loved you in month 2 of therapy that might be a red flag to me, but if it was something genuine and non-sexual I don't see a harm.

Part of me wishes I had never read all the 'rules' around therapy so I could be myself more without worrying about crossing boundaries etc. but at the same time I know it's good to be aware of things.

I've been seeing T for a whole 10 years now...not every week as it's been less in the last 3 years since she moved away but it's only now after 10 years that she has said that she loves me and she only started hugging me at the end of every session in the last year or so. I think it's because we don't see each other as often. And the hugs do feel SO good!

[Petra5ed]

Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe

Part of me wishes I had never read all the 'rules' around therapy so I could be myself more without worrying about crossing boundaries etc. but at the same time I know it's good to be aware of things.

I've been seeing T for a whole 10 years now...not every week as it's been less in the last 3 years since she moved away but it's only now after 10 years that she has said that she loves me and she only started hugging me at the end of every session in the last year or so. I think it's because we don't see each other as often. And the hugs do feel SO good!

Thanks for that. I've been with mine for 4 years. I'm starting to wish I haven't read on here about all the therapists who say they love their clients, as being unloved is clearly a raw nerve with me.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I don't know. Love is a weighted word imo. It's not something that people say on accident...usually.

I also have BPD and need clear firm boundaries. For my mental health, it's more important than being loved. There are a lot of things more important than love (i.e. respect).

This is just my opinion, but I think it was unprofessional and not healthy for your T to say she loves you. It crosses boundaries and creates dependency/attachment. And if you have the common "fear of abandonment" that people with BPD have, this will make it harder. It's like a doctor giving a diabetic full sugar candies.

My ex-T said things that inferred that she loved me: "I want you to feel safe and loved when with me" and "My concern comes from a place of love". We even talked about love a lot. But she still abandoned me.

Idk. I guess if the relationship/love doesn't hurt you or make you worse, then it's a good thing. Just from my experience (not just with ex-T) and from the stories on here, it's a "red flag".

[Cinnamon_Stick]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

This is just my opinion, but I think it was unprofessional and not healthy for your T to say she loves you. It crosses boundaries and creates dependency/attachment. And if you have the common "fear of abandonment" that people with BPD have, this will make it harder. It's like a doctor giving a diabetic full sugar candies.

This is what I was thinking. Love can be very dangerous in therapy. The therapist can leave at any time for any reason and ending with a T will happen to everyone and then that "love" isn't really there in most cases. Just be careful.

Congratulations! I'm glad that you were one of the lucky ones that was delivered into the hands of a therapist that can use the L. word to their clients. I understand clearly, that not everyone wants a therapist like that or needs one like that.

Please, don't feel you don't have the right to hear her say, I love you, because of a label that was assigned to you, and she and you need to act the parts. So many hide behind labels, and become limited by said label that allegedly charts a singular path to healing, or no healing, because they were officially tagged, and feel that they are burdened with an albatross around their neck forever more.

IMHO — Feel all the feelings that come with your therapist words, and then deal with yourself under her guidance to learn how to accept them. Working with her certainly beats a faceless forum. And, remember those words will may NOT bond you to a physical presence with your therapist like a marriage till death do you part. Life happens for you and her. It doesn't have to come with feeling abandonment.

It sounds like you have a therapist that is willing to work with you in the here and now. Endings are usually sad when it involves good things. But, please don't think YOU can't deal with it because of a certain label, or from the sad/angry feelings that some on forums have been left with. If you work with your therapist now and intermittently, if the time comes your recovery will be much quicker.

Embrace what she said, and work with your therapist to hold onto them so that you can build a stronger foundation, and not wither away because life happens; good or bad.

Good luck to you.

[musinglizzy]

My T's loving behavior, and use of the word love, is what ultimately damaged us for what I'm afraid is forever. Over a year later I'm still seeing her, but we aren't really doing therapy, more like rupture repair. Because she gave it, then abruptly took it away.

I'm happy for you. Enjoy it while it lasts, hopefully it does. But just be prepared to, at some point, needing to hold on to the memories if your T decides to stop. I don't want to scare you. I just wanted to share how damaging this was for me, and still is, over a year later.

[laxer12]

I would LOVE to hear my T say that but I know (and I'm pretty sure she knows too) that it would not be helpful for me in the long-run. I get too attached to people and it makes it extremely difficult for me to say goodbye, and if I had the choice with someone like that, I probably never would.

When I get attached, I sometimes struggle with boundaries and T knows that. It would probably not be in her best interest, nor mine, to say she loved me (I'm not sure if she actually does or not).

I think some people can handle being told that and others may struggle with it. It's a nice thing to hear/know either way. I hope it doesn't negatively impact your relationship at all. You seem to be aware enough to notice how it might impact you.

[dancinglady]

Originally Posted by ScrewedUpMe

Hi,

I haven't posted in quite a long time although I do read alot here...

I was just hoping for some input regarding some recent sessions with T...

We have had a few heavy sessions, one in which I told her that when I have an anger episode it makes it very difficult for me to survive it because I get very impulsive...we also talked about my past and difficult childhood issues...at the end of the session T was trying to show me how much she cared about me I think because she said "I love you...you're like a daughter to me". This overwhelmed me, it was more than I could ever hope for her to say to me as she is like a mum to me.

Today at the end of the session she said it's difficult for her because she struggles because she can only see me if I want to come...and that I am like her surrogate daughter...

Although I LOVE to hear these things...I wonder if this is going to make the relationship less professional or whether it's going to make me just want more and more and more from her...I have BPD and am in desperate need of a mother figure...which she has always been to me...

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks,

SuM

Be extremely careful. This may be what you want to hear but she is a professional who could fire you in a heartbeat and not look back. I had this experience twice. You legally can't have a relationship with her when you terminate. She would lose her license.

Again I know this feels good but WATCH OUT. If you were to do something she did not like again she would Terminate you fast. They never look back and then they just find another vulnerable person like you to start over with. She may have already done that and you are now the new victim!!!!!

[ScarletPimpernel]

Originally Posted by dancinglady

Be extremely careful. This may be what you want to hear but she is a professional who could fire you in a heartbeat and not look back. I had this experience twice. You legally can't have a relationship with her when you terminate. She would lose her license.

Again I know this feels good but WATCH OUT. If you were to do something she did not like again she would Terminate you fast. They never look back and then they just find another vulnerable person like you to start over with. She may have already done that and you are now the new victim!!!!!

Last time I checked, here in the US, it is legal to have a friendship with your T after termination. Think they removed the wait time. However, there is still a limit (think 7 years) for a sexual relationship.

I read on these forums more heartbreak and messed up relationships and ruptures without repair, than those whose therapist used the L. word. Please be careful when you attach cause and effect. My mother spend my whole life telling me if you do this, then this will happen... If you don't do this, that will happen...so I spent many years in turmoil, and not doing much in the mist of great opportunities. I always heard about the negative. Why trust "it" if it was just going to be taken away from me? Why believe my therapist when I couldn't trust my own parents? Why would I trust someone taking my money? I had to start somewhere, even if I was used to doomsday... That's why the placebo effect works as well and better than many medication

[dancinglady]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

Last time I checked, here in the US, it is legal to have a friendship with your T after termination. Think they removed the wait time. However, there is still a limit (think 7 years) for a sexual relationship.

Not in VA where I am located. It is in the law at the Dept of Health Professionals.

[LonesomeTonight]

Originally Posted by dancinglady

Not in VA where I am located. It is in the law at the Dept of Health Professionals.

I think it depends on whether you're talking law (like they could be arrested--which I think is the case for sexual relations in some states, but don't really see how it could be for platonic friendships) or professional licensing board. I thought the standard waiting period for any sort of relationship--friendship or romantic--was at least 2 years, at least for licensed psychologists. But my T is a clinical social worker, and she told me that for social workers (clinical or non), you're ethically *never* supposed to befriend (or have other relations with) a former client, even if it's like 10 years later. So I think it really depends.

Originally Posted by dancinglady

Not in VA where I am located. It is in the law at the Dept of Health Professionals.

"This is from Virginia for psychologist:

Part VI. Standards of Practice; Unprofessional Conduct; Disciplinary Actions; Reinstatement.
18VAC125-20-150. Standards of practice.

8. Not engage in sexual intimacies or a romantic relationship with a student, supervisee, resident, therapy patient, client, or those included in collateral therapeutic services (such as a parent, spouse, or significant other) while providing professional services. For at least five years after cessation or termination of professional services, not engage in sexual intimacies or a romantic relationship with a therapy patient, client, or those included in collateral therapeutic services. Consent to, initiation of, or participation in sexual behavior or romantic involvement with a psychologist does not change the exploitative nature of the conduct nor lift the prohibition. Since sexual or romantic relationships are potentially exploitative, psychologists shall bear the burden of demonstrating that there has been no exploitation;"

The professional associations sometimes do have different rules/codes with longer friendship codes, but I have never seen in any US state laws where friendship or sexual relationships are forbidden when a certain time has passed. The American Pschiatric Association codes do forbid sex into perpetuity, others may forbid it, and still others have set 5 year wait. Again, friendship is not forbidden to my knowledge.

But , the OP I believe was talking about a cup of coffee down the road, not sex.

[Fuzzybear]

[ScrewedUpMe]

Originally Posted by Walkedthatroad

Congratulations! I'm glad that you were one of the lucky ones that was delivered into the hands of a therapist that can use the L. word to their clients. I understand clearly, that not everyone wants a therapist like that or needs one like that.

Please, don't feel you don't have the right to hear her say, I love you, because of a label that was assigned to you, and she and you need to act the parts. So many hide behind labels, and become limited by said label that allegedly charts a singular path to healing, or no healing, because they were officially tagged, and feel that they are burdened with an albatross around their neck forever more.

IMHO — Feel all the feelings that come with your therapist words, and then deal with yourself under her guidance to learn how to accept them. Working with her certainly beats a faceless forum. And, remember those words will may NOT bond you to a physical presence with your therapist like a marriage till death do you part. Life happens for you and her. It doesn't have to come with feeling abandonment.

It sounds like you have a therapist that is willing to work with you in the here and now. Endings are usually sad when it involves good things. But, please don't think YOU can't deal with it because of a certain label, or from the sad/angry feelings that some on forums have been left with. If you work with your therapist now and intermittently, if the time comes your recovery will be much quicker.

Embrace what she said, and work with your therapist to hold onto them so that you can build a stronger foundation, and not wither away because life happens; good or bad.

Good luck to you.

Wow, thank you so much, what a wonderful, insightful post. I really appreciate that. My T is very human and I don't think she could hide it even if she wanted to. Her genuine caring shines through and that makes me feel really good. And you're right about the label thing really...I myself get bogged down with the label and what is supposed to not be good for 'people like me' but your post has really made me question that. So I thank you for that!