[rainbow8]

We haven't done EMDR in a couple of years. She says when I talk about her taking things away or leaving me, it sounds like something from the past. I don't remember anyone taking anything away except in the home movies my brother seems to enjoy taking my dolls out of the buggy! I was depressed when my college boyfriend left me but probably my biggest loss was the death of my mother because I depended on her so much. I still have trouble acknowledging that loss. So, unless I come up with someone else (from the past, not the loss of my H) who took something away or left me, I will do it about my Mom. T is going on vacation next week so it will be in two weeks.

Can anyone suggest ideas of what could have been taken away? It's not anything like loss of innocence. With T, it's about taking away what she gave me, like email and hand holding. Of course she's not really taking them away. I asked today if I'm letting her down if I email anyway. She said no. I also asked if she would hold my hand today, and she did. She wants me to be able to hold into the connection to her without needing the contact in between. That would be a secure attachment. That's my goal. It's hard!

[Out There]

I am returning to do more EMDR tomorrow after 8 months. It will be the earlier stuff in my life abandonment and loss of self worth. It does tend to go all over the place with very complex feelings! I hope it will help you with attachment we can have the pre-verbal stuff too.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Out There

I am returning to do more EMDR tomorrow after 8 months. It will be the earlier stuff in my life abandonment and loss of self worth. It does tend to go all over the place with very complex feelings! I hope it will help you with attachment we can have the pre-verbal stuff too.

Thank you. Good luck with your EMDR session! For me, I think it's taking away the connection from T that brings up all the longings. It could be preverbal, from when my mother wasn't there when I was in an incubator for a couple of weeks as a preemie or from when she passed away. I hope doing EMDR again will help me and you too.

[nottrustin]

Just a though. How about people "taking away" your ability to trust because of things they did?

With your T not only did you lose the physical contact that you needed but did it also make you lose some trust in her? Did it make you wonder what else she will do??

For example. Many people including my dad made promises or said one thing to my face and another behind my back. Consequently I have a hard time believing what people say. I look for signs that they are lying. So in essence they took away my ability to trust.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

Just a though. How about people "taking away" your ability to trust because of things they did?

With your T not only did you lose the physical contact that you needed but did it also make you lose some trust in her? Did it make you wonder what else she will do??

For example. Many people including my dad made promises or said one thing to my face and another behind my back. Consequently I have a hard time believing what people say. I look for signs that they are lying. So in essence they took away my ability to trust.

Yes, I did lose some trust in my T at the time but I think it was more about the loss of the connection that felt intolerable. I can't think of anything comparable in my life unless it's preverbal. I always minimize the loss of my mother because I was married and had a child, and was over 30. It's only been in recent years that I grieved her not being here to know her grandchildren and great-grandchildren, and to love and support me. My mother left me but not intentionally. She was a big part of my life, even after I was married.

I always wonder if painful feelings that come up in therapy are truly things from the past surfacing, or therapy events that are independently painful. Some of us are more sensitive than others as well which really muddies things.

IMO therapy isn't particularly stable in the way family or close friends can be in many situations. There is always a threat of being left, by either the therapist moving, ruptures, etc. with no guarantees of future contact. When you add intimacy and love into the mix, I think there are a lot of reasons to be rightfully concerned about being left or having things taken away. i wonder if a part of being human (or maybe an underlying personality trait) is driving this instead of past trauma?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

I always wonder if painful feelings that come up in therapy are truly things from the past surfacing, or therapy events that are independently painful. Some of us are more sensitive than others as well which really muddies things.

IMO therapy isn't particularly stable in the way family or close friends can be in many situations. There is always a threat of being left, by either the therapist moving, ruptures, etc. with no guarantees of future contact. When you add intimacy and love into the mix, I think there are a lot of reasons to be rightfully concerned about being left or having things taken away. i wonder if a part of being human (or maybe an underlying personality trait) is driving this instead of past trauma?

I wonder about that too, but I also trust my T when she says it feels to her like it's more than the present, that it feels like something from my past. It's true that she did take the two best things about therapy away: holding hands and email. But she explained why, and never totally took away emailing her. That was a mutual decision.

She kind of messed up about the hand holding but was honest later on that it was "her stuff." After her SE training, she said it could be part of my therapy anytime.

So, in any case, there's the "why are emailing and holding her hand" so important to me? What came first, the chicken or the egg? Why do I feel so terrible when I don't have the connection with her that I want? It's a pattern not just with her. So, it's worthy of exploring. EMDR got me to some important places, so I'll see what happens. If it gets me to T took away things and no one else, that's important too.

[Waterbear]

This may already have been what was being discussed but if you had never felt a connection with anyone else before and you feel like you are losing the connection with her it could be that it is not a previous incident of things bring taken away but a previous loss of something that you should have had but never did. I hope that makes sense. It would explain it coming from an early place but not an actual taking away of something. I am sorry though, that I can't remember your past relationships with 'primary care givers'.

Interesting you say your were dependent on your mother. Perhaps loss of an interdependent self is your biggest loss. Dunno.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I wonder about that too, but I also trust my T when she says it feels to her like it's more than the present, that it feels like something from my past. It's true that she did take the two best things about therapy away: holding hands and email. But she explained why, and never totally took away emailing her. That was a mutual decision.

She kind of messed up about the hand holding but was honest later on that it was "her stuff." After her SE training, she said it could be part of my therapy anytime.

So, in any case, there's the "why are emailing and holding her hand" so important to me? What came first, the chicken or the egg? Why do I feel so terrible when I don't have the connection with her that I want? It's a pattern not just with her. So, it's worthy of exploring. EMDR got me to some important places, so I'll see what happens. If it gets me to T took away things and no one else, that's important too.

Rainbow, this could be more, but I think you love holding her hand and emailing because it feels good. You feel cared for and safe, which is totally normal. Except you're different from most of us because you've been brave enough to ask for it and discuss it.

I hear so much love come through your posts. I think it would be such a shame to make a pathology out of it and 'treat' it. My biggest wish for you is that you could get this feeling from someone in an unpaid, unprofessional role.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Waterbear

This may already have been what was being discussed but if you had never felt a connection with anyone else before and you feel like you are losing the connection with her it could be that it is not a previous incident of things bring taken away but a previous loss of something that you should have had but never did. I hope that makes sense. It would explain it coming from an early place but not an actual taking away of something. I am sorry though, that I can't remember your past relationships with 'primary care givers'.

Thanks, Waterbear. I know I was loved by my Mom and Dad, but the attachment was probably the preoccupied kind, I think, because of my Mom's anxiety. So I think I missed security. You're right. That's something I never had because I "took on" my Mom's personality. Life is a disaster waiting to happen! Car and plane crashes, disease, crime. I don't know how I got this far, seriously. T gives me security and I don't want that taken away. I have to write this down in my journal for my next session.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Interesting you say your were dependent on your mother. Perhaps loss of an interdependent self is your biggest loss. Dunno.

Thanks, Mouse. It's more like I never totally even had a Self!

Originally Posted by FallingFreely

Rainbow, this could be more, but I think you love holding her hand and emailing because it feels good. You feel cared for and safe, which is totally normal. Except you're different from most of us because you've been brave enough to ask for it and discuss it.

I hear so much love come through your posts. I think it would be such a shame to make a pathology out of it and 'treat' it. My biggest wish for you is that you could get this feeling from someone in an unpaid, unprofessional role.

FF, that's exactly what my T wishes for me! Thank you! I recently had a "date" with a man for the first time since my H passed, and the first time in over 40 years. It didn't work out, and maybe it's too soon, but that's what I'm looking for in my T, I agree. Well, I'm also looking for a Mom in my T. I didn't have the loving feelings with my H, though I had security. I kind of like being independent for right now but I want a partner to satisfy some of those needs.

My T thinks my pattern runs deep. Other Ts said I didn't get my needs met by my mother in the right way. I was diagnosed with BPD by all my Ts and a pdoc. I can't just discount my history though my current T doesn't believe in labeling people. She just wants me to feel better and not need her. Basically what you're saying.

[rainbow8]

Waterbear, I've been thinking more about what you posted. I do think what I don't want taken away is the security I never had. My T gives me that security which induces a calmness in me. The feeling I get when I hold her hand is like that. If I never felt that from my mother, it makes sense why it feels so good now.

But my T already knows the above, and still thinks someone took something away or left me. I will have to discuss it with her before we do the EMDR. This is why I wish I could email her and ask now, but I know it's something to discuss in my session instead. EMDR can lead to insights, so I'm glad T wants to try if again with me.

[Waterbear]

It can be hard exploring the past, with no memory of events. That is where I am struggling right now. Would it hurt to try it anyway, it may bring back things for you?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Waterbear

It can be hard exploring the past, with no memory of events. That is where I am struggling right now. Would it hurt to try it anyway, it may bring back things for you?

My session is tomorrow. I want to tell T some of the comments from this thread before we do EMDR. I agree that SHE took something away that was traumatic but I don't want to start an argument with her about that. I think the only EMDR subject makes sense is my screaming hysterically in the car all the way home from my session when she wanted me to stop emailing and to set a therapy termination date. I was frantic! I don't remember any losses in my early life that caused such hysterics. So maybe T will say we could do it on those feelings that I must have felt as an infant in the incubator. Does that make sense or not?

I think it's something from the past triggered by T's threat of taking away my security. Maybe I never had security. T gave it to me, and the possibility of losing that security was devastating to me. I can't see doing EMDR about my Mom's death because that doesn't go back far enough. I can't bring up feelings like I can about screaming in my car because doing so was so unlike me and weird.

I don't think my T will want to hear that SHE caused the trauma, though it is clear that it goes back to some earlier trauma. Thoughts, anyone?

[unaluna]

How about your not talking when you were little?

[Rive.]

I think it's something from the past triggered by T's threat of taking away my security

I tend to agree. If you were that distressed (i.e. the screaming), it might reflect a deeper, younger, hurt. It may have happened at a pre-verbal stage and what with infantile amnesia, is no longer a conscious memory.

As such, i think it would make sense to bring up an episode you were conscious of (screaming in the car) rather than one with no explicit conscious awareness (incubator).

I agree re not blaming her but believe it would be worth mentioning the sense of acute loss you felt that time & how it resonated at such a core level. There must(?) be something at the root of it all. Well, maybe....maybe not. Might be worth exploring *if* EMDR won't cause undue - or additional - distress in your life.

[sugahorse1]

Rainbow - from what I can pick up in your posts, your story is exactly like mine. Including the incubator, not being close to mom, feeling comfort from T....
Know you are not alone - It actually feels good for me to know there is someone else out there struggling like I am too.

[Out There]

Originally Posted by Rive.

I tend to agree. If you were that distressed (i.e. the screaming), it might reflect a deeper, younger, hurt. It may have happened at a pre-verbal stage and what with infantile amnesia, is no longer a conscious memory.

As such, i think it would make sense to bring up an episode you were conscious of (screaming in the car) rather than one with no explicit conscious awareness (incubator).

I agree re not blaming her but believe it would be worth mentioning the sense of acute loss you felt that time & how it resonated at such a core level. There must(?) be something at the root of it all. Well, maybe....maybe not. Might be worth exploring *if* EMDR won't cause undue - or additional - distress in your life.

I would be inclined to target the conscious episode of screaming in the car and see what this brings up. I did a recent target at my session and it goes a way back. Hugs Rainbow , it's difficult I know

[kecanoe]

Originally Posted by Out There

I would be inclined to target the conscious episode of screaming in the car and see what this brings up. I did a recent target at my session and it goes a way back. Hugs Rainbow , it's difficult I know

I also have used recent events as starting points for EMDR and have been surprised where they led me. I hope it went/goes well for you, Rainbow