[rainbow8]

For those who think my T wants to keep me dependent, here is her response to my emails describing my feelings after my session. She's right but now I feel more rejected than ever. The reality will cure me or kill me I think. I am back to crying because she hurts me!

"Yes... It's been a busy week. I hope you're feeling more settled and my hope is that you'll start doing more of that without emailing me about your feelings so quickly. The more you can sit with some of the triggers and sort through it and get yourself back on track....the better and healthier for you. I'll see you next Tuesday at 2. I hope you have a good weekend. The weather is supposed to be nice."

I hate that she didn't even acknowledge what the problem was. We've talked about her triggering me before but I never saw her dressed like that before. I've got to talk about how to accept that she's just my T!!! The week after next I go out-of-town for a week. I just want to cry and grieve more but I have to go somewhere now. A condolence call. I'm in the right mood. Sad for all who suffer any losses. It's almost a year since my H passed. Maybe some of my feelings are mixed up with that grief.

[unaluna]

Again, whats the fantasy? Do you play them out to their logical conclusion? Another of mine was grocery shopping on saturday with t. Then i thought, hes gonna let the dogs sit in the front and i have to sit in the back! Its like, wth is THAT about? Its not really about how he loves his dogs. Its about my feeling that i always come last in importance. And why do i feel that.

Its embarrassing as heck to admit i had this grocery shopping fantasy. And it took a while to figure it out. But its not about forcing t to marry me so we can go grocery shopping and finally fulfill my destiny or fantasy of NOT being last. Its just, OH! its about not being valued. Are there other ways i do feel valued in reality, by t, by pc, by my bus driver, my barista? Those little pieces eventually add up and i dont have to marry t any more. Er, as much!

[divine1966]

I am sorry about your loss. It must be tough.

I liked her response. You can discuss more in session.

I think she replied to you as to an adult. If you were a child, shed explain that she needs to dress certain way to run and that you cannot be friends .

But as an adult you already know that and she doesn't need to analyze that. You know and she knows that what you feel isn't rational or realistic. She suggests to keep sitting with your feelings and that's all you could really do as a grown up.

If she continued explanations how she has a life etc it will be talking down to you like to a child. She treated you as an adult in her email.

I see it as positive. Rejection would be not replying at all

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[Cinnamon_Stick]

I am sorry you are struggling so much Rainbow. I know how it is to pour your heart and soul out into an email and get more of a generic response. It happened a lot with my old T. I think your T is really trying to help you and support you with being more independent with her. I know its hard b/c you just want to hold on tight to her forever. I have been there and its painful. She really cares about you and I wish you would let her guide you through this so you don't have to do it on your own someday.

Have you tried DBT? I am doing DBT now with my new T and its so helpful and I think it would really help you as we have been through very similar things. Hang in there!

[BudFox]

The thing that stands out to me in her response is that she is defining what is best and healthiest for you.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by BudFox

The thing that stands out to me in her response is that she is defining what is best and healthiest for you.

This struck me too. She may well be right about what's best for you, but I find her expectations of you odd - she thinks you should act like an adult (like not driving by her house) yet she seems to encourage this child part - like doesn't she talk to it in session? And if I got that email, I'd feel talked down to.

I don't think she's making you dependent on her deliberately, but by not helping you find coping mechanisms she's not helping you break free of your dependency.

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[awkwardlyyours]

Rainbow -- not to diss your T but I agree with ATAT and Bud and also Bud's response in your other thread (about the concept of loving yourself). I personally find such talk -- especially coming from a T to who I'm paying good money -- really banal, trite and patronizing (actually infantilizing as well but then I know my opinions on this may be a bit extreme).

I know that a lot of Ts speak this way -- I can't seem to get mine to stop doing it (although from what I read on PC, she does a lot less of it than others it seems) -- but at the same time, I don't think clients should take it as the gospel truth (and should in fact challenge Ts on it although again from my experience, that doesn't appear to consistently and significantly improve things but at least there's the satisfaction [which fits well also with that other cliche of learning new skills / behaviors] of having spoken your mind etc).

Anyhow, good luck....

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Again, whats the fantasy? Do you play them out to their logical conclusion? Another of mine was grocery shopping on saturday with t. Then i thought, hes gonna let the dogs sit in the front and i have to sit in the back! Its like, wth is THAT about? Its not really about how he loves his dogs. Its about my feeling that i always come last in importance. And why do i feel that.

Its embarrassing as heck to admit i had this grocery shopping fantasy. And it took a while to figure it out. But its not about forcing t to marry me so we can go grocery shopping and finally fulfill my destiny or fantasy of NOT being last. Its just, OH! its about not being valued. Are there other ways i do feel valued in reality, by t, by pc, by my bus driver, my barista? Those little pieces eventually add up and i dont have to marry t any more. Er, as much!

Thank you, unaluna. Your examples are quite interesting and make me wonder. I don't think I play out the fantasies like you do. Let's see. After my session, when I saw her, she would ask if I wanted to walk with her, and I would, of course. We would talk about art and maybe her kids, and other non therapy topics. I'd get to know more about her. It would be nice. That's all. But the main point is that she would ASK me to be with her. She wouldn't just reject me. She would WANT to be with me even if I said No. It's about her wanting to be with me and not rejecting me.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I am sorry about your loss. It must be tough.

I liked her response. You can discuss more in session.

I think she replied to you as to an adult. If you were a child, shed explain that she needs to dress certain way to run and that you cannot be friends .

But as an adult you already know that and she doesn't need to analyze that. You know and she knows that what you feel isn't rational or realistic. She suggests to keep sitting with your feelings and that's all you could really do as a grown up.

If she continued explanations how she has a life etc it will be talking down to you like to a child. She treated you as an adult in her email.

I see it as positive. Rejection would be not replying at all

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Thank you, divine. I knew you'd like my T's email. Yes, very adult .

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Cinnamon_Stick

I am sorry you are struggling so much Rainbow. I know how it is to pour your heart and soul out into an email and get more of a generic response. It happened a lot with my old T. I think your T is really trying to help you and support you with being more independent with her. I know its hard b/c you just want to hold on tight to her forever. I have been there and its painful. She really cares about you and I wish you would let her guide you through this so you don't have to do it on your own someday.

Have you tried DBT? I am doing DBT now with my new T and its so helpful and I think it would really help you as we have been through very similar things. Hang in there!

Thanks, Cinnamon. I do want to hold on tight to my T forever! She shot down that idea a few months ago when she wanted me to stop emailing. I'll have to try again because she's making her responses more painful than not emailing.

I took about 2 cycles of DBT and learned a lot. What I should do is look at my book again because I seem to have forgotten some of the skills. I'm glad you're doing it.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by BudFox

The thing that stands out to me in her response is that she is defining what is best and healthiest for you.

Thanks. Many people, including those on this forum, do not think I know what is best and healthiest for me. I surely don't! I wish I could email her as much as I want and see her until I die. Apparently that's not best and healthiest though I want it. So, I don't mind T telling me what she thinks.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

This struck me too. She may well be right about what's best for you, but I find her expectations of you odd - she thinks you should act like an adult (like not driving by her house) yet she seems to encourage this child part - like doesn't she talk to it in session? And if I got that email, I'd feel talked down to.

I don't think she's making you dependent on her deliberately, but by not helping you find coping mechanisms she's not helping you break free of your dependency.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My T does not encourage any child part and she never talks to "her" in session. She encourages ME to talk to her and soothe her. When I say something, she may say "that sounds like a young part. How old do you think she is?" Mostly it's child parts who are burdened. For everyone, not just me!

What kind of coping mechanisms? She encouraged DBT for me. She encouraged yoga and meditation and art to reduce stress and for enjoyment. She wants me to sit with my feelings, and have my Self tell the parts that I care and that I'm there for them. She wants me to call my friends, and get out and enjoy life. She likes that swimming is one of my hobbies. She tells me to live in the present and enjoy each minute, day I have. I will ask her more about how to cope with " she's my T and that's all." We've already talked about radical acceptance. T thinks crying is good when I'm sad. Or painting my feelings. Or journaling. I think I have a lot of coping skills but the triggers are very powerful!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by awkwardlyyours

Rainbow -- not to diss your T but I agree with ATAT and Bud and also Bud's response in your other thread (about the concept of loving yourself). I personally find such talk -- especially coming from a T to who I'm paying good money -- really banal, trite and patronizing (actually infantilizing as well but then I know my opinions on this may be a bit extreme).

I know that a lot of Ts speak this way -- I can't seem to get mine to stop doing it (although from what I read on PC, she does a lot less of it than others it seems) -- but at the same time, I don't think clients should take it as the gospel truth (and should in fact challenge Ts on it although again from my experience, that doesn't appear to consistently and significantly improve things but at least there's the satisfaction [which fits well also with that other cliche of learning new skills / behaviors] of having spoken your mind etc).

Anyhow, good luck....

Thank you. I respectfully disagree with you.

[BayBrony]

I can't speak for rainbow, but I went to T precisely because my own thought patterns and coping mechanisms are not always healthy, safe or effective. How many conversations have I had with my T along the lines of
Me: "I think I need to lose weight. I'd be happier if I lost weight"
T : "that's the eating disorder talking. Were you happier when you were thinner?"
Me: "I don't know. Maybe. Anyway it will make me happier now"
T " it won't. You know it won't. And I don't think.its safe or healthy for you to deal with your emotions by trying to starve yourself"

She's right of course! And I am in T because some intelligent part of me does not believe starving myself is healthy, safe or an effective way to make myself happy. But I forget that because I have an eating disorder and a profound history of trauma.

I don't see it as any different than my ortho doctor saying that even when my shoulder doesn't hurt, it would be safest and healthiest for me to avoid handstands and other yoga arm balances. That does not make me happy but he is correct

I see my ortho doc BC he is a specialist in shoulder injuries and I see my T because she is a specialist in eating disorders and trauma. Its wise to.listen to.them

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thank you, unaluna. Your examples are quite interesting and make me wonder. I don't think I play out the fantasies like you do. Let's see. After my session, when I saw her, she would ask if I wanted to walk with her, and I would, of course. We would talk about art and maybe her kids, and other non therapy topics. I'd get to know more about her. It would be nice. That's all. But the main point is that she would ASK me to be with her. She wouldn't just reject me. She would WANT to be with me even if I said No. It's about her wanting to be with me and not rejecting me. Hi

Thats exactly what im talking about, about letting the fantasy play out just letting your mind wander. Let the words go wherever they want to go. This way, i just discover things. I never have to force myself to start or stop something. I find out the historical reason why i am or am not doing something. Like pining for t. Like eating right.

[divine1966]

I know I said previously that your t fosters dependency but this email felt different. I think if t will continue consistently talking to adult you, something might come of it. I would also try to stop emailing her unless for emergency

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[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I know I said previously that your t fosters dependency but this email felt different. I think if t will continue consistently talking to adult you, something might come of it. I would also try to stop emailing her unless for emergency

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But what you don't understand is that my T is always like the email! But IFS is about parts, and like I said, we all have child parts. My Self is supposed to be in charge. But I can tell T how the child feels. It's not one or the other. I hurt because of child stuff. We don't ignore that in therapy. But she has, from day 1, wanted ME in charge, not her. I've rebelled since day 1. My previous T wouldn't listen to any child parts and she did NOT solve my attachment problem. She's the one who laughed and said you can't cure a personality disorder. She said she was treating my inner adult. Didn't work ! I obsessed over her worse than with current T.

I hate not being allowed to email but that's what T has suggested.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

I see my ortho doc BC he is a specialist in shoulder injuries and I see my T because she is a specialist in eating disorders and trauma. Its wise to.listen to.them

But seems in this case (and in many others) the T is assuming the role of specialist in living, rather than specialist in trauma. A lot of Ts appear to be confused on this, thinking that because they studied psychology and trauma they are in a position to advise people how to live. They are no more qualified to do this than anyone else, but because of their position, common sense advice takes on a special significance.

I would suggest that when Ts cross this line something potentially dangerous is happening. I found that it encouraged my tendency toward self-abnegation. When I woke up the way I submitted to this unthinkingly, I was horrified.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by BudFox

But seems in this case (and in many others) the T is assuming the role of specialist in living, rather than specialist in trauma. A lot of Ts appear to be confused on this, thinking that because they studied psychology and trauma they are in a position to advise people how to live. They are no more qualified to do this than anyone else, but because of their position, common sense advice takes on a special significance.

I would suggest that when Ts cross this line something potentially dangerous is happening. I found that it encouraged my tendency toward self-abnegation. When I woke up the way I submitted to this unthinkingly, I was horrified.

I would say not obsessing over your T has more to do with trauma/attachment than living. She didn't say "don't email anyone". She was specifically telling her to work on a therapy issue ( fixation on T). Just like my T does not tell me what to eat or when but she tells me I have to eat regularly because low blood sugar helps perpetuate anorexic thinking and the relapse cycle. Rainbow is free to email anyone else or even email her T anyway despite the advice though she may not get a response.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by BudFox

But seems in this case (and in many others) the T is assuming the role of specialist in living, rather than specialist in trauma. A lot of Ts appear to be confused on this, thinking that because they studied psychology and trauma they are in a position to advise people how to live. They are no more qualified to do this than anyone else, but because of their position, common sense advice takes on a special significance.

I would suggest that when Ts cross this line something potentially dangerous is happening. I found that it encouraged my tendency toward self-abnegation. When I woke up the way I submitted to this unthinkingly, I was horrified.

In this case, the t is trying to get rainbow to confine her therapy with the t, to the therapy hour. Shes not telling her how to live; shes telling her how to do therapy!?

[atisketatasket]

At the risk of putting my foot in it again - and I want to say it because this clearly hurts you so much - I am wondering whether it is a desire for friendship only?

It occurred to me, driving down the Mass Pike this afternoon (great place for thinking, the Mass Pike), that there's the desire for friendship with yoir therapist, there's the child desire for maternal security, and then there's maybe a maternal attitude towards your therapist (I was thinking about the clothing issue there). With each of those, there would be individual triggers unique to that aspect of your relationship. With this situation all three are triggered - the child feels abandoned by a mother figure, the friend feels rejected, the mother feels pushed away by her child's independence. That might be why your normal coping mechanisms are not working.

I am glad to hear she's taught you coping mechanisms, by the way, it's just they don't seem to work very well by what you post on here.

And also...is she trying to assert stronger boundaries generally, not just email? Maybe that's her way of trying to force you into stronger coping skills? (A counterproductive move, if so.)

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by BudFox

But seems in this case (and in many others) the T is assuming the role of specialist in living, rather than specialist in trauma. A lot of Ts appear to be confused on this, thinking that because they studied psychology and trauma they are in a position to advise people how to live. They are no more qualified to do this than anyone else, but because of their position, common sense advice takes on a special significance.

I would suggest that when Ts cross this line something potentially dangerous is happening. I found that it encouraged my tendency toward self-abnegation. When I woke up the way I submitted to this unthinkingly, I was horrified.

Rainbow's T isn't telling her how to love her life, she is discouraging behavior as it relates to her therapy and how she relates to her T. Ts certainly can be qualified to advise clients on how to live their lives if certain behavior patterns are interfering with their happiness. Ts shouldn't tell clients where to work or go to school or what to eat, of course. But if a client is, say, obsessing over T (or someone else) to the extent that it interferes with real life, I think it's fair to offer real life advice. Ts aren't designated life experts of course, but they are usually advising on the basics, mostly around self care. It's simple, but things are sometimes clearer to someone on the outside looking in than to the people involved.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

But what you don't understand is that my T is always like the email! But IFS is about parts, and like I said, we all have child parts. My Self is supposed to be in charge. But I can tell T how the child feels. It's not one or the other. I hurt because of child stuff. We don't ignore that in therapy. But she has, from day 1, wanted ME in charge, not her. I've rebelled since day 1. My previous T wouldn't listen to any child parts and she did NOT solve my attachment problem. She's the one who laughed and said you can't cure a personality disorder. She said she was treating my inner adult. Didn't work ! I obsessed over her worse than with current T.

I hate not being allowed to email but that's what T has suggested.

I understand. I just think that maybe constant contact with t isn't working as much . What if you email your friends when you feel upset? Just a suggestion

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[JaneTennison1]

Email doesn't seem to be helping you. My current T is a fan of doing only what helps me. You get triggered and fire off a response quickly, then think about whether she will answer, then ruminate about the answer and then it will be Tuesday again. I just wonder how this helps you (as the client) I understand being defensive of T, I certainly would not have left a T on advice of others, but you sound a little stuck in this pattern. Maybe there is a different way to go about this? I'm not saying you are not progressing just that there may be a different way to help you "unstick"

[ruh roh]

Hi Rainbow. It's hard to see you in so much pain. I can't remember if you've answered this before, but is this only an issue with therapists and no one else in your life? What would happen if you were not in therapy, would you struggle with any other relationship or personal situation? Because that would be something to work on as a way to focus on something other than a therapist.

I don't know much about IFS, but it sounds like it's not a good fit for whatever you need, which is maybe why your therapist doesn't put a big focus on it as much as the SE. From what you've written in the past, it seems you did not really separate from your mother, not that you did not form an attachment. You seem to be really good at the attaching part. I hope you and she can figure out an approach that works. You should not have to suffer so much from therapy.