Email response from T

[QUOTE=unaluna;5225051]What am i, chopped liver?[/QUOTl

Those people are on here. I think people on here have selective reading. Also those people tend to just skip over these sorts of arguments. Nothing to prove. There are quite a few posters having good, consistent therapy experiences. They just don't have as much to post about

I got the impression sky was talking about people who have ended this type of therapy in a healthy way. That the therapist "weaned" them from it. I just don't see that here.

Why would those people be on a forum like this though?? I have friends on the forum sure but I mostly post to manage strong feelings about therapy. The better my therapy is going the less I post except to be supportive to others . I don't think that is a good measure of whether such a thing is happening in the world at large because mist people with good therapy experiences won't continue to post on a therapy forum once they are done with therapy

I mean I used to be on a board for marathon runners. I don't run marathons anymore so I'm not on the board anymore. I used to be on a forum for people with pet raccoons but mine passed away so I don't post anymor
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This board tends to attract people in intense therapy and people with trauma related to therapy . i

I did say this in my other post. Who knows? Why are any of us here? Some hate it that I'm here. Maybe this is some kind of addiction.

I also mean people who have posted for years about their therapy and strong attachment and dependency. I have never seen anyone end that well. I've been here for 10 years. I have never seen it end well. Maybe they just go away, but that seems odd to me that they would not at least post an ending. It would be hopeful to see a good ending for people in those deep attachment relationships.

HOnestly I have read A LOT of books about therapy and blogs and other articles and I haven't seen many good endings at all for that type of therapy if any. But who knows? It would be good to see. Not sure why the info isn't out there or here or anywhere.

The therapy/self-help industry has convinced people that they are incapable of sorting out their own problems. The false dichotomy is that you must either (a) do therapy, or (b) be doomed to a life of suffering and confusion.

It's a con and a monumental delusion. So pervasive is the delusion that even when people report ongoing anguish and despair from therapy, very rarely will anyone suggest they just walk away. Some people find this idea too threatening.

Bonbons are also a sign of wealth and decadence. Like chaise longues (chaises longues?).

I think after seeing how this thread's gone, we should all chip in buy the OP a big box of bonbons. And a chaise longue to eat them on.


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For me, the choice basically WAS therapy or doom.
I've tried veganism, several religions, multiple relationships, marathon running,long dustance swimming, subsitence agriculture, throwing myself into my career, self harm, drugs( prescribed and non prescribed), and two separate eating disorders.

The demons of my childhood have followed me every where, continually disrupting my life, relationships, and health.

I made myself vomit until I lost all my teeth. ALL MY TEETH. I'm 41 and all my dentition is made of titanium and cubic zirconia. It took 4 surgeries to reconstruct my mouth. And STILL I couldn't let my eating disorder go.

Therapy isn't perfect because people aren't perfect. And I might not for your idea of a timeline ( though I'd wager few people have an understanding of how much therapy it takes to.undo 30 years of purging anorexia) but seriously, the past 4 years in therapy have been the best years of my life ( despite a number of personal challenges, major surgery AND nearly dying from a blood clot). Its THAT much better.

So just FYI, that IS the only choice for some people.

I could not choke down 70% dark chocolate. I am not much of a chocolate person to begin with but if I do eat it - I like milk chocolate. I might like some bonbons.

But a handful of anecdotal stories about people benefitting does not justify all the stories of ruined lives or ongoing suffering.

Also, I believe the true story of therapy can only be told by clients a couple years removed from the process. Clients in therapy, and therapists themselves, cannot be objective, in my opinion. Because these are the two groups that dominate the narrative, I'd wager that the reality is far uglier than anyone cares to admit.

I thought therapy was the only way for me too. I have severe trauma issues, eating disorders, self harm, etc, and lost a child. I thought therapy was the only way to a better life and then my therapist abruptly abandoned me after 7 years. I had to find other ways to go on really quickly. I was a lot stronger than i realized.

I agree that hindsight is the best way to judge therapy, as so much in life, but on the first paragraph, anecdata is anecdata. Good stories might balance bad stories, but neither can justify or dismiss the other. We'd have to know the experiences of the silent majority and/or minority to really judge therapy.

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I am several years removed from therapy; likewise my husband and son. My sister is like 5 years removed from therapy. I could name many more. Ours have not been "ugly" stories.

It isn't about anyone's story "justifying" anyone else's story. Each person's story is individual. Some people benefit from therapy. Others do not. Some people get through therapy relatively quickly; others take years and years. I don't know why people benefitting from therapy have to have their therapy described as a delusion. I equally don't know why people who don't benefit from therapy have to be made to feel they are failures.

I don't know why people who go into therapy have to be told they could have just done it on their own -- that the only reason they apparently went to a therapist is because they were somehow manipulated into therapy by the industry. That speaks down to those who have done everything they can to deal with whatever crap their life has left them to deal with, yet they had the strength to finally reach out for help -- something that is really difficult for people to do in this age where people are shamed for not being stronger, for needing help with emotional and mental health issues.

Back to Rainbow since this is her thread: Some of us have traveled a long forum journey with Rainbow and have seen her growth over the years. We have seen how her current therapist's approach really has moved her forward much farther than her previous therapists were able to. Her journey is her own. Like most of us (probably all of us), her journey isn't a straight line from point A to point B. That's okay. She's been through a very difficult year, and Rainbow, you are doing okay. You'll regroup and get through this current issue. Hang in there and be gentle with yourself.

Your post is very thoughtful, lola. Thank you! I've been reading the posts without getting upset about the tangents, believe it or not! I guess I settled myself from what happened after my last session and from my T's email. Hopefully I can talk about it productively in my session tomorrow. I appreciate your support through the years and your acknowledgement of my growth. That means a lot to me.

I also appreciate the replies even if I didn't respond. I'm not asking to close this thread but in case it does get closed, I wanted to thank everyone.

Rainbow I just wanted to say that I think you are doing a great job in a difficult transition. You've had a difficult year but continue to try to change and grow. Much love

So agreed with the bolded statement. I don't know anyone who automatically think YES, THERAPY!!! when their life is not going as planned...usually it is after a long time of struggle until people give in. Maybe in NYC or other bigger cities, it is seen as "chic," but honestly...I don't think it is like that for many people.

It took me 13 years to finally confront what I am confronting in therapy, and this is with a T I really like, who's not afraid to push me...and still I am pushing back HARD, because this is a subject that terrifies me.

So if it is a delusion, it is a delusion that is forcing me to try and figure out a way to not be alone for the rest of my life.

Good for you.

And see, that is something you would never have been able to do just a few years ago. You have come a long way!!

I'm glad you are feeling more settled. Sometimes I know when something has upset me, I just have to give myself some time to let my initial reactions settle down before I respond or do anything. A little distance from the event often allows me to have a broader perspective. You know that about yourself also and I suspect you T was simply reminding you of that herself; she's been traveling that journey with you too.

Most professions would consider anything even approaching parity between harmful and helpful outcomes to be utterly shameful. And because the therapy profession doesn't seem very interested in outcomes in general, nor in long term outcomes specifically, nor in hearing from the silent majority/minority, nor in revealing its plans for avoiding further harm… seems logical to conclude that is a basically dishonest and unethical business and might well be harming people in great numbers.

Ruined lives are not just collateral damage to be swept aside for some unknown number of heartwarming success stories. The success stories are offered as justification for the system, but stories of ruin are not treated with commensurate significance or as an argument against the system. And people in perilous therapy situations, like Rainbow and myriad others, are encouraged to just keep grinding away, rarely does anyone even suggest stopping. Where is the balance?

Thread officially hijacked. I am complicit.

I think it's a bit over the line to call another poster's therapy situation "perilous".
Only the OP gets to decide that.

BudFox, I don't consider myself in a "perilous therapy situation!!" An uncomfortable and painful situation, but certainly not perilous! I don't usually get triggered like I did last week. I think it's hard now because my T is going away for 3 weeks in September and she's never been gone so long before. She and other Ts have brought up my quitting. My current T thought we should end 2 years ago. My former T kept trying to get me to quit also.

I think that those who work through their attachment issues don't post here. Some do! I see you waving, unaluna! Many people who are in therapy don't even read PC, I would imagine. It's mostly those with problems involving their T who post here. I would be interested in a study of clients with attachment issues and their therapeutic success or failure. Have their been such studies?

Rainbow, your words: "The reality will cure me or kill me I think". Sounds perilous but what do i know.

Let me know if you find some meaningful studies about therapy outcomes.

Wish you the best, but I am weary of all the therapy-at-any-cost posts. It frightens me. I need to go now...

Yeah, I did write those words, and I did feel like that at the time. I need to remember what my T and many others have said: Those feelings don't last forever. They fade away. I'm not sure what will happen in my session tomorrow but I am going to remember that in fact, feelings will NOT kill me. I wish you well too, Bud.

I kind of disagree. It seems to me more of a community most of whose members are generally okay with their therapy and therapists, but occasionally have issues with them, or people who want to understand therapy better.

Maybe there should be a poll...

I agree that for many people therapy is something that is not a huge deal in of itself, whether postitive or negative. Many people in therapy like it, feel good about it and don't feel the need to talk about it with others. Some people who don't like therapy may be the same - they they find new Ts or just stop going. After that it may not carry any more significance. Other people simply have no interest in posting on forums at all, let alone forums about therapy.

I tend to think people who do post, do so when they want feedback on an issue that is really impacting their life, yet lack anyone who can identify or understand. Forums like this are a great place in that circumstance. I don't know that it's always centered around transference/attachment, but it would make sense. When it is an issue it tends to be consuming and people who havent experienced transference or strong attachment in T don't usually understand it.