[rainbow8]

I know T can't be my friend but I'm still not accepting it fully! If I accepted it, I wouldn't be upset to see her go on a walk by herself. I wouldn't have wanted to go too. Unless it's the child part who just wants to be with her. I don't know. She hasn't emailed me back yet.

[atisketatasket]

I haven't wanted to be friends with any of mine, so I can't help there.

But if it's your child part, I think it needs to be not just recognized but also integrated into the whole of you. That way it should be able to handle the abandoned feeling. After all, she did not explicitly reject you, and you'll see her again at your next appointment.

[ScarletPimpernel]

For me, it helps that my T and I constantly talk about the reality of our relationship. We talk about my attachment, when and why it intensifies, what's a healthy balance, etc. We compare our relationship to my relationship with ex-T and how it's so much healthier than before. She will never say "love" and has only once said "I care". We do hugs at the end of session, but that's the only touch permitted. I am allowed out-of-session contact, but it's minimal. She has good strong boundaries and realistic expectations. And we talk about termination often, how it will work, what happens if I struggle with it, what happens afterwards.

This is just my opinion, but I think your T needs to place stronger boundaries and realistic expectations with you. You seem to struggle with intense attachment, obsessive behavior including stalking, and are stuck with an idealistic picture of your T. I think if you worked on seeing your T for who she is (a professional woman who cares about her clients but is just doing her job) then maybe you can work on seeing other relationships in a realistic light. Ts can be like guinea pigs in which you practice having healthy relationships. They should not be fostering dependence or unrealistic expectations.

This is just my opinion. You probably won't like it or agree. That's okay if you don't.

[BayBrony]

I remind myself that "if it was something different, it wouldn't be what it is"
I love my friends but I get 2 hrs a week of my t's focused attention. No one except my wife gives me that much time consistently. I'm lucky if I see most of my friends twice a month!

I DO have deep.conversations with my friends but rarely in the quiet, uninterrupted way I talk to my T in.

And while I'm affectionate with my friends, by and large they'd look at me weird if I asked to snuggle with them or asked them to tell me how loveable I was.

My T is unique in what she gives me.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

For me, it helps that my T and I constantly talk about the reality of our relationship. We talk about my attachment, when and why it intensifies, what's a healthy balance, etc. We compare our relationship to my relationship with ex-T and how it's so much healthier than before. She will never say "love" and has only once said "I care". We do hugs at the end of session, but that's the only touch permitted. I am allowed out-of-session contact, but it's minimal. She has good strong boundaries and realistic expectations. And we talk about termination often, how it will work, what happens if I struggle with it, what happens afterwards.

This is just my opinion, but I think your T needs to place stronger boundaries and realistic expectations with you. You seem to struggle with intense attachment, obsessive behavior including stalking, and are stuck with an idealistic picture of your T. I think if you worked on seeing your T for who she is (a professional woman who cares about her clients but is just doing her job) then maybe you can work on seeing other relationships in a realistic light. Ts can be like guinea pigs in which you practice having healthy relationships. They should not be fostering dependence or unrealistic expectations.

This is just my opinion. You probably won't like it or agree. That's okay if you don't.

I appreciate your opinion, Scarlet. You've come a long way and I'm glad your T has worked out better for you than your former one.

My T doesn't try to foster dependence or unrealistic expectations. She does the opposite. We talk about my attachment a lot, and she always says the goal is for me not to need her. That's why she wants me to stop emailing her if I can. That's why she praises everything I do outside of therapy that shows my independence. She has never said she could be other than my T to me.

She is a professional doing her job. My brain understands that but my heart doesn't. I don't know how to bridge that gap.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I haven't wanted to be friends with any of mine, so I can't help there.

But if it's your child part, I think it needs to be not just recognized but also integrated into the whole of you. That way it should be able to handle the abandoned feeling. After all, she did not explicitly reject you, and you'll see her again at your next appointment.

I know you disagree with IFS about parts. My Self can tell that part that T is not abandoning her. My Self knows that.
It still hurts when I realize the reality. Stupid, I know. This pattern has persisted for me .

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

I remind myself that "if it was something different, it wouldn't be what it is"
I love my friends but I get 2 hrs a week of my t's focused attention. No one except my wife gives me that much time consistently. I'm lucky if I see most of my friends twice a month!

I DO have deep.conversations with my friends but rarely in the quiet, uninterrupted way I talk to my T in.

And while I'm affectionate with my friends, by and large they'd look at me weird if I asked to snuggle with them or asked them to tell me how loveable I was.

My T is unique in what she gives me.

Thank you. I can usually think like that but get triggered when I'm reminded that T has her own life and I'm not part it. I have to accept the reality over and over and come to peace with it. Yes. One hour a week is a lot. I'm grateful for my T and that I'm her job. My heart doesn't seem to agree, though.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Thank you. I can usually think like that but get triggered when I'm reminded that T has her own life and I'm not part it. I have to accept the reality over and over and come to peace with it. Yes. One hour a week is a lot. I'm grateful for my T and that I'm her job. My heart doesn't seem to agree, though.

Whats the fantasy? I tend to believe the answer - what the heart is really looking for - is in the fantasy. Discussing the fantasy is kind of like discussing a dream - the t takes a pretty active part, asking questions, exploring your feelings, old memories that come up etc. Thats how that part gets integrated, by no longer hiding in secret. Is what i think @@ is saying.

Perhaps you never stop wanting that.

[Luce]

I was thinking the same as Mouse. Maybe you don't stop wanting that. There is nothing wrong in itself with wanting something. On one hand you want a friendship with t, on the other you know it can't happen. It is okay for the two things to be, at the same time.
We want many things we can't have. It's a part of the human condition.

Maybe the crushing disappointment comes because the wanting is allowed to be, unchecked, without the 'knowing' part considering the boundaries. If the wanting is allowed to fantasize freely without the reality check you will continue to have the crushing moments when reality jumps up every now and then and 'slaps you in the face'.

[divine1966]

I am kind of with Scarlett on this. I know you don't agree but your t does seem to foster dependency. It is my perception. I understand feeling like a child at times but I wouldn't want to live as a child guided by child feelings, I want to live my life as an adult. I think she might be good at addressing your inner child but is not helping you to live as an adult. I understand it's my opinion only and I don't mean to offend but I don't see her fostering your adult parts

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't get that her T fosters dependency. I do get the feeling that her T is allowing this to go on knowing the amount of time between sessions cannot help those feelings become processed.

I remember my T explaining that after the initial stabilisation work, we would need to up sessions and was I committed to that. She wasn't prepared to do the work, or admitted the work couldn't really be effective without this.

Oh, and the extra sessions weren't financially motivated. I'm on a sliding scare and 2nd session was only an extra £5.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Whats the fantasy? I tend to believe the answer - what the heart is really looking for - is in the fantasy. Discussing the fantasy is kind of like discussing a dream - the t takes a pretty active part, asking questions, exploring your feelings, old memories that come up etc. Thats how that part gets integrated, by no longer hiding in secret. Is what i think @@ is saying.

I think I've talked about the fantasy a lot, especially in the past. Wanting to be a "kangeroo" and living in T's "pouch". Essentially wanting to be taken care of like an infant. Wanting that unconditional love. My T has always encouraged ME to be the one to do that because I'm there 24/7. I've internalized her caring about me too. But there's no secret about what I want from T. Do you think there is?

Have you internalised her caring? How does that correlate to your other thread 'how do you love yourself'? Or whatever is titled, Do you see the contradiction?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I am kind of with Scarlett on this. I know you don't agree but your t does seem to foster dependency. It is my perception. I understand feeling like a child at times but I wouldn't want to live as a child guided by child feelings, I want to live my life as an adult. I think she might be good at addressing your inner child but is not helping you to live as an adult. I understand it's my opinion only and I don't mean to offend but I don't see her fostering your adult parts

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My T does not want me to be guided by child feelings. I don't know why you come to that conclusion. She continually fosters my adult Self! Everything I do in my life that shows my growth and independence, she encourages . I don't want to name all of my interests, but one is art. She has helped me realize that I'm an artist and can produce professional looking paintings, and she loves when I show her my work. That's far from fostering dependence . She is enthusiastic about other endeavors I've undertaken; I just don't want to discuss them on here.

Can you tell me why you think my T fosters dependence? We don't even do IFS so much. We do SE, and she asks me where I feel my feelings in my body. We do a lot of work on my anxiety. I discuss the child parts on here because that's what bothers me and I need help with.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Have you internalised her caring? How does that correlate to your other thread 'how do you love yourself'? Or whatever is titled, Do you see the contradiction?

Yes, I've definitely internalized my T's caring about me. I'm not sure if I love myself but I'm sure my T loves me. I don't hate myself. I wasn't sure what loving myself means so I started the thread. I see the contradiction I guess. If I've internalized my T's love I should love myself? I'm not sure it's that simple!

None of my Ts saw me more than once a week. My T definitely would not want that for me. We're working towards less dependence on her, not more. Maybe in the past that could have been an option but not now. Thanks, though.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

Perhaps you never stop wanting that.

Do you mean the wanting to be part of T's life. Correct. I've never stopped wanting that fantasy. T says our work together is to enable me to get satisfaction and love in my own life! How that's fostering dependence is beyond me!!

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Do you mean the wanting to be part of T's life. Correct. I've never stopped wanting that fantasy. T says our work together is to enable me to get satisfaction and love in my own life! How that's fostering dependence is beyond me!!

Probably because you are projecting that desire onto your therapist and are not yet looking to satisfy it in your own life. Maybe that would be a transition to work towards.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Yes, I've definitely internalized my T's caring about me. I'm not sure if I love myself but I'm sure my T loves me. I don't hate myself. I wasn't sure what loving myself means so I started the thread. I see the contradiction I guess. If I've internalized my T's love I should love myself? I'm not sure it's that simple!

None of my Ts saw me more than once a week. My T definitely would not want that for me. We're working towards less dependence on her, not more. Maybe in the past that could have been an option but not now. Thanks, though.

No. When you internalised, it's not about knowing the other person loved you. It's about it becoming yours. You love you. Intellectual understanding doesn't equate to it being or becoming yours.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Luce

I was thinking the same as Mouse. Maybe you don't stop wanting that. There is nothing wrong in itself with wanting something. On one hand you want a friendship with t, on the other you know it can't happen. It is okay for the two things to be, at the same time.
We want many things we can't have. It's a part of the human condition.

Maybe the crushing disappointment comes because the wanting is allowed to be, unchecked, without the 'knowing' part considering the boundaries. If the wanting is allowed to fantasize freely without the reality check you will continue to have the crushing moments when reality jumps up every now and then and 'slaps you in the face'.

That makes sense. Exactly the way I feel! Reality"slaps me in the face." I always called it "shattering my dreams." So what do you think the solution is? I do know the boundaries. Accepting them seems to be my problem. I can tell myself over and over that T is my T, not my friend, and never will be, and I am her job, but still wham! When something happens like after last session, I get hurt anyway!

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by _Mouse

No. When you internalised, it's not about knowing the other person loved you. It's about it becoming yours. You love you. Intellectual understanding doesn't equate to it being or becoming yours.

Thank you. I didn't know that's what you meant by internalizing T's love. I thought it meant feeling that she cares/ loves me no matter what.

[ScarletPimpernel]

Just to be clear, I don't think your T is a bad T or anything. I'm sure she's helped you with many different things. But the one thing you don't seem to improve on is the realistic limitations of the relationship.

I deal with attachment problems too. I was way over attached to ex-T which made the abandonment even harder. That's why current T and I work a lot on our termination. She wants it to be a good experience. I mean the ultimate goal is to internalize all that your T has taught you and become your own therapist. Therapy isn't meant to be life long. If you have a healthy relationship with your T, there will be an ending. I am slowly coming to terms with this myself. But the constant reminders of reality from T helps.

I just think you need to work on this specifically with T. It is bothering you. You post about it a lot. The only way you're going to be able to deal with it is to focus on it in therapy. I don't think you should quit your T. My guess is that this will just reoccur in another relationship. But doing nothing about it isn't helping either. We can sympathize and empathize with you all you want, but nothing will change until you really want it to change. And wanting it means facing reality even if it's over and over again.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I think I've talked about the fantasy a lot, especially in the past. Wanting to be a "kangeroo" and living in T's "pouch". Essentially wanting to be taken care of like an infant. Wanting that unconditional love. My T has always encouraged ME to be the one to do that because I'm there 24/7. I've internalized her caring about me too. But there's no secret about what I want from T. Do you think there is?

I wanted my t to take me home on weekends in a baby bjorn. I told him, so he could cut the grass carrying me around. Hes like, i dont cut the grass! But he didnt say he wouldnt do it if he did cut the grass, right? I think its more about us expressing that desire, and them not rejecting it, that helps us internalize it. Your t sounds like she is saying, no rainbow do it. But i see 2 year old rainbow trying to assert control over her environment by giving commands to her commander. Im sure MY mother didnt play that game!

The last gift i gave my t was this perfectly horrible red and pink sock monkey from the valentines sale table. But the 2 year old in me HAD to give it to him. After that, she / i stopped bringing little gifts like we were ts cat dropping off birds and crickets. It was a big moment.

[LonesomeTonight]

This is just a thought...not sure if it would help you or not, but here goes. So you have trouble dealing with seeing your T when she looks different than how she looks in the office, I assume because it reminds you that she has a separate life. I wonder if it would help you to learn more about her life outside the office, to learn that she's not the idealized image you have of her? Like that she wouldn't be the perfect parent or perfect friend, etc.

As you know, I'm fairly attached to my marriage counselor. When the transference started, I had idealized him as this sort of perfect father and husband (depending on whether it was the paternal or erotic transference). He shares a lot from his life, but he shares the negative as well as the positive. And, while I am still fairly attached to him, his sharing of both good and bad (and the boring!) has helped me see that he wouldn't have been the perfect father or husband.

Like he talked recently about some mistakes he's made as a parent, despite having training in developmental psychology. Like realizing he was reaching a sort of breaking point with his son, and he should have just stepped away, but he ended up yelling at him and upsetting him. To the point that his son was like, "Do you still love me, Dad?" Of course MC felt awful and reassured him, but he knew he'd made a mistake. (This was shared in the context of we all make mistakes, even if we know better, since I'm a perfectionist and tend to beat myself up when I make a mistake.)

Or he's talked about finding ways to avoid doing the dishes or other chores, or spending too long at the office, so not the ideal husband or father. And even him talking about mundane things he does, like mowing the lawn or going to the store to buy mulch makes him seem more like a real person, and it's not like life with him would be some amazing fantasy.

I can't recall how much you know about T's life...but I wonder if it would help if you learned some of the more boring stuff she does from day to day, some mistakes she's made, etc.? Like if she became more of a typical, flawed person in your eyes? I know it would probably be painful, but maybe that reality would ultimately help?