[colorsofthewind12]

Do you ever suspect that your therapist is "acting out"? If you do, do you call them out on it (and give your interpretation)? If you do, how do they respond?

[atisketatasket]

I definitely think DBC was acting out in our last session. I didn't call her on it right then and there, but left her practice, wrote her an email stating everything I found wrong with her behavior that day, and asked for an apology, which I got, though naturally she did not acknowledge she was acting out.

I have no idea whether it would have helped our relationship, which was likely doomed anyway. (As much smarter posters like AY and velcro and MP cottoned on to way before I did.)

[here today]

Yes, my last T acted out several times -- usually in response to my angry outbursts. But I usually said that I was in a state where I had my "narcissistic" parts with me, so it was always very unsettling that she got triggered after I was triggered. She did admit that she got triggered, but. . . Eventually, we agreed it wasn't working. I left -- she also said that she did not have the emotional resources to cope with me -- so, yeah, I guess that therapy was doomed a long time really before it ended. :-( Live and learn but there is a limit to how much life one has and how much is lost in pointless, damaging therapies, with therapists who don't know their own limits.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I definitely think DBC was acting out in our last session. I didn't call her on it right then and there, but left her practice, wrote her an email stating everything I found wrong with her behavior that day, and asked for an apology, which I got, though naturally she did not acknowledge she was acting out.

I have no idea whether it would have helped our relationship, which was likely doomed anyway. (As much smarter posters like AY and velcro and MP cottoned on to way before I did.)

Sorry to hear that. It's nice that you got an apology though.

How did she act out?

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by here today

Yes, my last T acted out several times -- usually in response to my angry outbursts. But I usually said that I was in a state where I had my "narcissistic" parts with me, so it was always very unsettling that she got triggered after I was triggered. She did admit that she got triggered, but. . . Eventually, we agreed it wasn't working. I left -- she also said that she did not have the emotional resources to cope with me -- so, yeah, I guess that therapy was doomed a long time really before it ended. :-( Live and learn but there is a limit to how much life one has and how much is lost in pointless, damaging therapies, with therapists who don't know their own limits.

That's tough, sorry you had to go through that.

How did she act out?

What do you mean by "limit to how much life one has"?

[junkDNA]

what do you mean by the term "act out"? Like, acting out of character?

my T has done this quite a few times. i think i have triggered him before. but, there are times when i think he forgets he is in therapy with me and is my therapist....like he thinks we are peers. he's said some wild things before, some that could be misconstrued by others...so i wont post them.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by junkDNA

what do you mean by the term "act out"? Like, acting out of character?

my T has done this quite a few times. i think i have triggered him before. but, there are times when i think he forgets he is in therapy with me and is my therapist....like he thinks we are peers. he's said some wild things before, some that could be misconstrued by others...so i wont post them.

Acting out as in expressing unconscious negative feelings such as anger, disappointment etc towards the patient through physical body language (yawning, looking away, etc) to coming late to session or canceling a session etc

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by colorsofthewind12

Sorry to hear that. It's nice that you got an apology though.

How did she act out?

I wasn't falling into line with a diagnisis she was trying to convince me of (and I still believe she was wrong, because there are better explanations for my symptoms), and she snapped at me that my previous providers thought so too, they just didn't tell me. I asked her what the heck the therapeutic purpose of telling me that was, and she said at least she was being honest with me. (It turned out she wasn't. 45 minutes later she called me to tell me she was wrong about one of my previous providers, the one whom she knew I respected the most.). Anyway, she clearly said what she said to hurt and browbeat me.

I guess that's not your definition of acting out - I think I was thinking more in terms of the parenting phrase.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I wasn't falling into line with a diagnisis she was trying to convince me of (and I still believe she was wrong, because there are better explanations for my symptoms), and she snapped at me that my previous providers thought so too, they just didn't tell me. I asked her what the heck the therapeutic purpose of telling me that was, and she said at least she was being honest with me. (It turned out she wasn't. 45 minutes later she called me to tell me she was wrong about one of my previous providers, the one whom she knew I respected the most.). Anyway, she clearly said what she said to hurt and browbeat me.

I guess that's not your definition of acting out - I think I was thinking more in terms of the parenting phrase.

Yeah, not really according to the way I conceive "acting out" but she was definitely acting unprofessional.

[atisketatasket]

Originally Posted by colorsofthewind12

Yeah, not really according to the way I conceive "acting out" but she was definitely acting unprofessional.

I am kind of wondering how you arrived at that definition? I've just never seen it confined to just body language before.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

I am kind of wondering how you arrived at that definition? I've just never seen it confined to just body language before.

Didn't mean to come across as only limiting it to body language, I just used that as an example. But it's really about the therapist deviating in any way from the normal therapy frame with the assumption that it's due to underlying negative feelings (or even positive) towards the patient.

In the context of therapy, i think acting out just means acting on a feeling instead of verbalizing, talking about the feeling. It's not always negative.

The person doing it is often not consciously aware of the feeling. Its considered difficult to do therapy with those who act out too often. Everyone does it though.

I cant really think of times when my therapist did it. Maybe when cancellimg a session? I would think it happens more with a therapist like him since he doesnt tell me about his feelings. Maybe he tells his wife.

There are some real sad stories here of therapists acting out. We talked about self awareness a few times here lately. The 2 really go hand in hand.

It sounds like passive aggression is what is being referred to here. They are not mutually exclusive, so that can be part of it.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by Skies

In the context of therapy, i think acting out just means acting on a feeling instead of verbalizing, talking about the feeling. It's not always negative.

The person doing it is often not consciously aware of the feeling. Its considered difficult to do therapy with those who act out too often. Everyone does it though.

I cant really think of times when my therapist did it. Maybe when cancellimg a session? I would think it happens more with a therapist like him since he doesnt tell me about his feelings. Maybe he tells his wife.

There are some real sad stories here of therapists acting out. We talked about self awareness a few times here lately. The 2 really go hand in hand.

It sounds like passive aggression is what is being referred to here. They are not mutually exclusive, so that can be part of it.

Right, that's what i meant. Thanks for articulating it more clearly.

What I am really interested in, though, is when the patient picks up on subtle acting out and subsequently comments on it, maybe even giving their own interpretation. I am wondering how therapists might respond to that.

[rainboots87]

I don't think any of mine have acted out, thankfully. Which, to be honest, had me really confused about what you meant until some examples were provided. I've definitely acted out from time to time- luckily they've all been able to handle it.

[waterlogged]

I've experienced 2 pretty clear "enactments" recently, and I think enactment describes a process in which the therapist does something out of likely unconscious reasons. The first time had to do with my therapist very abruptly and startingly ending a session, and what came up after that was that I had been sprinting out of sessions for awhile and it was just another way of experiencing the abruptness that I can bring to the end of sessions.

More recently, I walked into my T's building about 15 paces behind her. I saw her get in the elevator and I slowed so that I would catch another one. However, she held the elevator and eventually stuck her head out like "dude I'm holding the elevator for you"(she didn't say that though) and I think it kinda demonstrated the push/pull of contact and avoidance I tend to play out in therapy.

If a T acts out. They've not done their own work. Run.

Can't say I've ever experienced such a thing with any of my therapists. Sounds like how I'd describe a small child.

[here today]

Originally Posted by colorsofthewind12

That's tough, sorry you had to go through that.

How did she act out?

What do you mean by "limit to how much life one has"?

She "shamed" me. Got huffy and like "how dare you call me '*****'".

I have very good control of that "part" and didn't have to bring it into therapy. I have very good control of it because it got shamed and dissociated when I was a child. So here I am, having been trying to dig that stuff up and get in touch with it for years and years, and when I do -- it's dissociated. And has its own awareness, of sorts, not part of the regular, usual me. Doesn't know its a feeling, or didn't. It just "is" (or was, things are improving some in that department).

But part of growing up in the region of the country that I did, girls and females are supposed to never get angry or enraged and I've unfortunately run into a lot of therapists who have had that same kind of socialization.

50 years of therapy, on and off. 20 almost continuously since my late husband was diagnosed with a terminal illness.

Finally, after processing that rejection and inability to accept me from my last therapist over several months, I experienced profound devastated depression, and realized that the females in my family could not accept me, just as my T couldn't. And I experienced the dejection of that state of affairs, that no one in the world cares about me, and how awful that state of affairs is.

And here in my house alone with my cats, I keep on, keeping on, until I don't any more.

[stopdog]

I have seen therapists and psychiatrists act like small children in court. Not just when they were being sued, but will contests and other probate and family matters. They don't handle such things any better than anyone else. Sometimes they are worse than average.

[Moment]

My therapist is very ethical and professional and doesn't "act out" like a child having a tantrum.
But he's human and so unconsciously does certain things I think he is not aware of. I talk to him about it. I say, "Did you know you were doing X? It made me feel Y."
These conversations are always very helpful. He is non-defensive and thoughtful and seriously considers that I have picked up on something that may have been out of his awareness. Sometimes he thinks I am right and other times he thinks I've misinterpreted, or we've misunderstood each other.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by waterlogged

I've experienced 2 pretty clear "enactments" recently, and I think enactment describes a process in which the therapist does something out of likely unconscious reasons. The first time had to do with my therapist very abruptly and startingly ending a session, and what came up after that was that I had been sprinting out of sessions for awhile and it was just another way of experiencing the abruptness that I can bring to the end of sessions.

More recently, I walked into my T's building about 15 paces behind her. I saw her get in the elevator and I slowed so that I would catch another one. However, she held the elevator and eventually stuck her head out like "dude I'm holding the elevator for you"(she didn't say that though) and I think it kinda demonstrated the push/pull of contact and avoidance I tend to play out in therapy.

Interesting, you sound very astute. Did you talk to your therapist about that?

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by here today

She "shamed" me. Got huffy and like "how dare you call me '*****'".

I have very good control of that "part" and didn't have to bring it into therapy. I have very good control of it because it got shamed and dissociated when I was a child. So here I am, having been trying to dig that stuff up and get in touch with it for years and years, and when I do -- it's dissociated. And has its own awareness, of sorts, not part of the regular, usual me. Doesn't know its a feeling, or didn't. It just "is" (or was, things are improving some in that department).

But part of growing up in the region of the country that I did, girls and females are supposed to never get angry or enraged and I've unfortunately run into a lot of therapists who have had that same kind of socialization.

50 years of therapy, on and off. 20 almost continuously since my late husband was diagnosed with a terminal illness.

Finally, after processing that rejection and inability to accept me from my last therapist over several months, I experienced profound devastated depression, and realized that the females in my family could not accept me, just as my T couldn't. And I experienced the dejection of that state of affairs, that no one in the world cares about me, and how awful that state of affairs is.

And here in my house alone with my cats, I keep on, keeping on, until I don't any more.

Sounds like you gained a lot from your therapy over the years, your self awareness, for example, even though you might not be happy where you are now.

I am sure people care about you, and you are someone people can care about, and I am sure you are someone who can care about others.

Have you considered trying therapy again with a good, new T to help you reach out to others?

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by Moment

My therapist is very ethical and professional and doesn't "act out" like a child having a tantrum.
But he's human and so unconsciously does certain things I think he is not aware of. I talk to him about it. I say, "Did you know you were doing X? It made me feel Y."
These conversations are always very helpful. He is non-defensive and thoughtful and seriously considers that I have picked up on something that may have been out of his awareness. Sometimes he thinks I am right and other times he thinks I've misinterpreted, or we've misunderstood each other.

Your therapist sounds very secure and reflective. It's great that you can have a non-defensive and open discussion about the things you are feeling that he is doing unconsciously.

[Out There]

Main 2 T's not really. One T I saw for only two sessions I felt did but there were too many problems and of course we can't be our T's therapists. I've talked to them both if I felt there was anything but I wouldn't stay with a T if there was too much of this that couldn't be resolved.

[colorsofthewind12]

Originally Posted by Out There

Main 2 T's not really. One T I saw for only two sessions I felt did but there were too many problems and of course we can't be our T's therapists. I've talked to them both if I felt there was anything but I wouldn't stay with a T if there was too much of this that couldn't be resolved.

True that.