*Trigger Warning* I don't describe the details of what it does; just telling how it happened.

It happened in my last therapy-I became conscious of it and it felt like it took over my body, like I was possessed. Two-three weeks ago, it came back. I felt it so strongly, I thought I was going to get psychosis (I did not).

T said it's an introject, and it's influence/existence will get smaller and smaller the more we talk about it. I browsed some articles about it, which said you're not supposed to fight it, that it's protecting you. Well, it's more or less trying to preserve me to keep the existence of any current splits that I still have, which is why I think I'm strongly conscious of it during therapy. Because therapy would be a threat to its existence. Well, it felt to me like T and I were fighting it off, and it felt good, so I'm not sure I agree with the article. Does anyone know why you're not supposed to fight it? For some reason I don't like reading about it.

The other thing is that I had a sense that it went into hiding and that it was going to sneak up on me and 'trick me'. Now it felts like it's not there. Actually, integrated would be the word.

For those with DID, how do you know for sure whether a different part is gone and not 'coming back'? This was really frightening.

[Freewilled]

I dont have a DID diagnosis so let me just say that first because I may be way off base....but does it feel like you're a different person? Is it like this every time you're in therapy and do you ever feel it outside of therapy? Do you experience it like you are watching yourself as someone else acting in a certain way that feels "off" for lack of a better word? Or really uncomfortably inauthentic? (But do you know when you're being authentic even though?) So that the person you are watching is acting in a way you cannot relate to and the parts you vaguely remember existing outside of therapy don't get represented?

So it almost feels fake or it isn't even you at.all?

But it's not intentional and like it's happening but you can't really stop it because the parts that don't show up aren't there. They just don't show up. You can't even feel them. They are split off somewhere else. And so to speak from those parts would be fake too. So you can't win......if so, I can relate to some degree.....I don't think I described it very well and Ive tried to explain it to my T but I feel like that's been an utter fail For me, it's like watching a freight train coming straight at you and you can't move or scream out even.

Is there a longing that exists where there are no words?

Wow - that's a lot of questions! Sorry....if I'm missing the mark completely, please just disregard

Originally Posted by Freewilled

I dont have a DID diagnosis so let me just say that first because I may be way off base....but does it feel like you're a different person? Is it like this every time you're in therapy and do you ever feel it outside of therapy? Do you experience it like you are watching yourself as someone else acting in a certain way that feels "off" for lack of a better word? Or really uncomfortably inauthentic? (But do you know when you're being authentic even though?) So that the person you are watching is acting in a way you cannot relate to and the parts you vaguely remember existing outside of therapy don't get represented?

So it almost feels fake or it isn't even you at.all?

But it's not intentional and like it's happening but you can't really stop it because the parts that don't show up aren't there. They just don't show up. You can't even feel them. They are split off somewhere else. And so to speak from those parts would be fake too. So you can't win......if so, I can relate to some degree.....I don't think I described it very well and Ive tried to explain it to my T but I feel like that's been an utter fail For me, it's like watching a freight train coming straight at you and you can't move or scream out even.

Is there a longing that exists where there are no words?

Wow - that's a lot of questions! Sorry....if I'm missing the mark completely, please just disregard

Oh-no, you're fine. Thanks for replying. I didn't explain it good. It doesn't come out when I'm in session; I mean it comes out during the time I engage in psychotherapy. Last therapy it was there for what seemed like months. This time it was only conscious to me for a few days.

An introject is the essence of an abuser split off as a separate personality or part. Supposedly it protects the dissociative system, and that's why I'm thinking it comes out when I start feeling really positive about getting better from therapy. Therapy is a threat to it's existence.

Yes, it feels like it isn't me at all, then it feels like i'm possessed by it, it has totally taken me over and the real me is trapped inside a certain place in my body (where it can observe). It was awful and frightening. It tried to sabatoge the therapy and it is abusive to me--sadistic and persecutory. It feels like a totally different person. It seems like it's gone now. I'm not sure.

I want to know how you can tell if it's integrated or not. I suppose I'll just have to wait and see? Interestingly, as soon as it seemed to have disappeared, I started feeling strongly attached to T.

For me, it's like watching a freight train coming straight at you and you can't move or scream out even.

So frightening.

[feralkittymom]

I wish I could offer you something, but I really don't know very much about DID. I know introjects can be positive or negative within the system, so maybe the article was talking about a positive one? It sounds like your experience was of a negative one, so I don't see how that's protective. And your T saying that the more you talk about it, the smaller it will get sounds right.

ETA: I see now--protective of the status quo of the system. Makes sense.

Thanks Feral. It's nice to be heard.

I think talking about it with T minimized it's destructiveness already. I hope it doesn't surface again.

[Freewilled]

Originally Posted by skies

Oh-no, you're fine. Thanks for replying. I didn't explain it good. It doesn't come out when I'm in session; I mean it comes out during the time I engage in psychotherapy. Last therapy it was there for what seemed like months. This time it was only conscious to me for a few days.

An introject is the essence of an abuser split off as a separate personality or part. Supposedly it protects the dissociative system, and that's why I'm thinking it comes out when I start feeling really positive about getting better from therapy. Therapy is a threat to it's existence.

Yes, it feels like it isn't me at all, then it feels like i'm possessed by it, it has totally taken me over and the real me is trapped inside a certain place in my body (where it can observe). It was awful and frightening. It tried to sabatoge the therapy and it is abusive to me--sadistic and persecutory. It feels like a totally different person. It seems like it's gone now. I'm not sure.

I want to know how you can tell if it's integrated or not. I suppose I'll just have to wait and see? Interestingly, as soon as it seemed to have disappeared, I started feeling strongly attached to T.


So frightening.

I think it's scary when you don't know who is going to show up is your introject that way toward your T? Or in talking to/about yourself ? I think I can really relate, if I'm honest with myself. My T called this part "Tyrannical" ....I have read that the T getting to know that part is beneficial to integration so sounds like your T and you talking about it makes a lot of sense. Talking about why it's there and how it is trying to protect you.

I don't know how you would know for sure if it's integrated or not except with time. I know that it's really hard to go into therapy worrying about who will show up and how it will affect things

[unaluna]

I never thought of a negative introject as necessarily being part of a DID system. I thought everybody had one! As an influence of either the "bad kid" down the block or a parent if you were unlucky. But maybe its like that story of the man with the two dogs or whatever - which one keeps coming back? - the one you feed.

Originally Posted by Freewilled

I think it's scary when you don't know who is going to show up is your introject that way toward your T? Or in talking to/about yourself ? I think I can really relate, if I'm honest with myself. My T called this part "Tyrannical" ....I have read that the T getting to know that part is beneficial to integration so sounds like your T and you talking about it makes a lot of sense. Talking about why it's there and how it is trying to protect you.

I don't know how you would know for sure if it's integrated or not except with time. I know that it's really hard to go into therapy worrying about who will show up and how it will affect things

No, it hides in sessions. It has a voice sometimes that says mean things to me. I guess if I was psychotic, it would be a delusion. But I've never had a real break from reality. I guess that's why it's part of DID.

I guess part of the protection was not allowing me to get too attached to T. Now I'm afraid that this 'isn't really me' too. I have so much to talk about in therapy. Once a week is just not enough. I just already spend 1/3 of my income on medical expense right now, and pay T cash, that I can't afford anymore therapy.

Yes, that's what I read too. The thing is, when talking about this part trying to sabotage me with self-destructiveness, T said my mother was sort of encapsulated inside of me as this part and that she was "toxic and manipulative". So we weren't making friends with it. We were 'banishing' it. I guess analysts are different though. In my experience, they don't refer to "alters"; it's usually referred to as simply "splits".

Tyrannical-that is very fitting. I'm sorry that you relate to this. It is scary...

I'm actually glad it became so conscious so that we could drive it away!!!

Originally Posted by hankster

I never thought of a negative introject as necessarily being part of a DID system. I thought everybody had one! As an influence of either the "bad kid" down the block or a parent if you were unlucky. But maybe its like that story of the man with the two dogs or whatever - which one keeps coming back? - the one you feed.

Yes, I'd also think most people have an essence of a parent inside. Often a good internalization.

I guess when it takes you over to the point you feel possessed and needing of an exorcism, while the real you is in some sort of capsule in the upper part of your chest, it's perceived and is related to as a separate part of your personality-a split.

[Freewilled]

Originally Posted by skies

No, it hides in sessions. It has a voice sometimes that says mean things to me. I guess if I was psychotic, it would be a delusion. But I've never had a real break from reality. I guess that's why it's part of DID.

I guess part of the protection was not allowing me to get too attached to T. Now I'm afraid that this 'isn't really me' too. I have so much to talk about in therapy. Once a week is just not enough. I just already spend 1/3 of my income on medical expense right now, and pay T cash, that I can't afford anymore therapy.

Yes, that's what I read too. The thing is, when talking about this part trying to sabotage me with self-destructiveness, T said my mother was sort of encapsulated inside of me as this part and that she was "toxic and manipulative". So we weren't making friends with it. We were 'banishing' it. I guess analysts are different though. In my experience, they don't refer to "alters"; it's usually referred to as simply "splits".

Tyrannical-that is very fitting. I'm sorry that you relate to this. It is scary...

I'm actually glad it became so conscious so that we could drive it away!!!

It sounds like your T is very understanding of what you are going through - does she believe you will know for sure if it is integrated? I don't believe I have DID because I don't lose time or hear voices so much but I have something going on that makes little sense to me. I really get what you wrote about being afraid this "isn't really me" too. I actually talked about this concept or fear or whatever with my T last time. Well I fumbled through trying to explain it /:

I will say if there is one thing therapy is helping me with, it's becoming more aware of myself. I do think that's positive, even if I would rather ignore these things sometimes....

Take care

Just like you said Hankster...

Introjects

These alters are sometimes called as "copy alters" and are internal copies of another person, often they are an internal representation of an attachment figure such as a parent, abusive introjects alters are very common in dissociative disorders (Miller, 2012). Miller (2012) states that an introject may be an internal "mother" or "father" alter which warns the child not to act in a way which would cause the child's real external mother or father to punish them, protecting the child from physical harm. See also Abusive alters.

Introjects can be calming and soothing if they are representations of caring people.

Introjects exist outside of dissociative disorders, and are first developed in early childhood as internal thoughts representing the views of care givers. In DID they can taken the form of independent, autonomous alter personalities who may actually believe they are the person copied rather than a part of another person. (Miller

Alter - Dissociative Identity Disorder, Dissociation and Trauma Disorders

This also describes what's going on.

Persecutory alters (see protector alters)

Persecutory alters defensively protect the system, but their idea of how to do this, once the body is no longer a child, can be damaging to the whole - in fact they can terrorize the person in the same way the original abuser did. They are often introjects of the original abuser(s) and tend to respond to both inner and external perceived threats, harming alters inside and out the same way the original abuser did. In addition they often self harm, including cutting and purging. These parts do not have skills to regulate feelings such as anger, fear, pain, shame and needs. (Van der Hart, 2006, pp. 82-83)

eta

Abuser alters

Abuser alters are often introjects of the original abuser(s) - the parents in most cases. These alters are actually trying to protect the individual and not trying to injure them. The abuse results because they feel that they are protecting the system of alters by preventing actions that, when the individual was a child, might have caused further harm from the original abuser. (Howell, 2011, p. 62)

Freewilled-if you are interested, here's a list of publications on dissociation; some are free, full text:

Dissociative Identity Disorder references

That's enough for me today.

[unaluna]

Skies - It was a hard concept for me to grasp. Your writeup here is very good. I esp like the parts about it terrorizing the person, and not having skills. Now that i am getting beyond its grasp, those traits are more apparent to me. Its confusing that it is keeping the person safe, but for example a safe place for me was sitting on the couch - a little kid not getting into things, so my mother didnt get mad at me, so she could do whatever and not have to pay attention to me. Now its scary for me to get into things! How will i have to pay? Which doesnt make sense - there is no one here.

Look at discussing dissociation . Com and look up working with introjects.

I have a couple of them. Very abusive. T had some big breakthroughs with them this week though. Huge.

This part came out before the spontaneous fun part of me. And this terrorized me for over a year afterwards, now it seems integrated rather than a cometely seperate part of me.

Im reviving these posts to try to figure out what went wrong in my therapy. It was around this time when things started to do downhill, really slow and protracted over the next year or so, i think.

[Elio]

I've never heard of Introjects but if it can exist outside of dissociative disorders, maybe that is what I am internally fighting right now. I had a rough weekend and now I am fighting a world negative behaviors of shutting down, boxing everything up inside, cutting off from people (more than just isolating), doing the needful regardless of pain or healthiness based on my current physical condition... and such. It is a part of me that protects me from hurt and danger by controlling my behavior significantly (all black/white thinking) and not asking anything from anyone. Don't be seen, don't make a noise, hide.

Does that seem to fit the bill? And yeah, spontaneous fun or laughter is bad.. that is noise. Must be quiet.

Originally Posted by Skies

This part came out before the spontaneous fun part of me. And this terrorized me for over a year afterwards, now it seems integrated rather than a cometely seperate part of me.

Im reviving these posts to try to figure out what went wrong in my therapy. It was around this time when things started to do downhill, really slow and protracted over the next year or so, i think.

What makes you think something went wrong in your therapy, Skies? I was not yet on this forum and did not see you posting from that older account but did just check out the other thread you revived. Dunno... but to me, the "current you" I got to read many posts from sounds better Is more integrated worse for you?

What everyone has is a superego, it's sort of your parent's voice for judging yourself and right/wrong.

On top of that, I had dissociated introjects, it seemed like there were 2. One come from a really young time/infant, the other from my brother torturing me. I didn't know mine existed until therapy, and i became conscious of it and it took me over while i was trapped inside helpless, which was extremely frightening.

Dissociative disorders are more common than i think what is said. But I have no idea if you have one or not. You do sound like your protecting yourself from pain.

Originally Posted by Elio

I've never heard of Introjects but if it can exist outside of dissociative disorders, maybe that is what I am internally fighting right now. I had a rough weekend and now I am fighting a world negative behaviors of shutting down, boxing everything up inside, cutting off from people (more than just isolating), doing the needful regardless of pain or healthiness based on my current physical condition... and such. It is a part of me that protects me from hurt and danger by controlling my behavior significantly (all black/white thinking) and not asking anything from anyone. Don't be seen, don't make a noise, hide.

Does that seem to fit the bill? And yeah, spontaneous fun or laughter is bad.. that is noise. Must be quiet.

It is better to be integrated, yes but all the good qualities are gone or buried, i don't know what happened. I lost the fun-loving, carefree part of me. Now I'm just neurotic.

But it's not the therapy, maybe I wasn't clear. It's the relationship with my therapist that I've been struggling with and self-worth. My self-worth has never been this bad. I have no compassion for myself. I'm not that hard on myself with expectations, i am not a perfectionist by any means and give myself a break. But I only feel bad parts of me now, which my therapist always points out, see nothing good in there anymore.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

What makes you think something went wrong in your therapy, Skies? I was not yet on this forum and did not see you posting from that older account but did just check out the other thread you revived. Dunno... but to me, the "current you" I got to read many posts from sounds better Is more integrated worse for you?

Is it possible that you have overdone the therapy a bit and forgotten to live in the process? If you are so focused on figuring out all the wrongs and on "fixing yourself" that you forget to relax and have fun, and if your therapist just continues to point out problems without positives and without encouraging you to give yourself a break, perhaps it's not surprising that you feel the connection with your positive and more spontaneous qualities have been lost. We have discussed this several times before but, again, how about taking a break from therapy? See how that would go for a couple months perhaps or more, and go from there? What holds you back from trying that?

I know, I know, I just did, i took a break, though it was unplanned, at least I got to try it out. He triggered my PTSD at the end of our last session and I couldn't talk at all with him then became scared he was going to harm me. I sent him a brief email about what happened, where the trigger came from, that i had to close myself off due to harm avoidance. It only lasted a few days.

But the break was 1000 times worse than the PTSD trigger. During the break, i felt like a dagger was stabbing me in the chest over and over, like i was being murdered. And i was so dysregulated, i felt i was going to have a breakdown. I was catapulted into the past and couldn't climb out of it. It is so traumatic for me. It seems so senseless-how could I be traumatized by separating from him? I think it's because i shut myself off to my parents when i was really really young (i dont' remember having an attachment to my mother or knowing my father-they were like strangers), and so doing it now puts me back in that place.

When we emailed about coming back next week, that's when he told me he gave my regular day/time to someone else. I assumed he was angry at me for taking a break, but he said he was not. He said my appointment was no longer available as we had an alternate schedule the last few weeks because of another treatment i was undergoing, and that I just assumed that when the temporary treatment ended that I could have my day time we had for the past 3 years. I don't remember it that way, and was suprised he didn't mention it to me before.

I don't know if I could take a break again, but know i am overwhelmed by new feelings about him giving my session away. I was feeling very postiive about coming back actually, realized I needed to talk through things with him more than anything else I needed. I was going to see how I coudl come twice a week, since he seems to work better with that type of arrangement for someone with my issues. But now that my session is in the day, i don't know how i can do twice a week with 2 daytime sessions (probably can't at all) or even if this time will work for me on a permanent basis.

I'm so sorry to hear that he gave away your slot. I can understand your reaction to it, I would be the same. I also can relate to your reaction to the break. A huge amount of unwanted emotion surfaces for me when I have breaks. I guess it is childhood emotion, related to attachment/ separation as an infant (because my feelings, like yours, are very physical). Personally, I think that your T is making mistakes with you. I don't know what you can do about it. I know from experience that just stopping is not necessarily the answer, as even more painful feelings can come up. If I had my time again, I would handle the ending with T2 differently. I would have spent a few weeks on it, to try to end on a positive note and to focus on the good things in my therapy. Your T reminds me of my first T. Whenever I brought up with her any issues about the relationship she always re-framed it as transference. It was de- humanising. I'm sorry to hear your health has been bad.

[doogie]

I would like to comment, but I would rather PM. If you message me I'd be happy to share my experiences.