I sent T an email telling him I was mad at him for not replying. I said I'm not saying he's done anything wrong in not replying but that's how I feel anyway.
I told him what I learned about my ex. Then I told him I didn't want a forced response from him. That I am okay with being mad at him. This is his last working day till the 24th because he's taking holiday.
I feel pretty low today though I've been distracted in the daytime. I feel uncomfortable with leaving things like this with T even though it's my own fault.
Just offloading I guess.

[velcro003]

Bah, that really sucks Echos. I hope he manages a small reply. Has ever emailed outside working hours?

Also, I read what you found out about your ex today. There aren't enough emojis in the world for that. It is truly awful, and I am sorry.

Originally Posted by velcro003

Bah, that really sucks Echos. I hope he manages a small reply. Has ever emailed outside working hours?

Also, I read what you found out about your ex today. There aren't enough emojis in the world for that. It is truly awful, and I am sorry.

Thanks velcro. He's emailed me up to about 9.30pm before and yes he's also replied to me when he's been off on holiday too. But I don't think he will this time because I said I didn't want a forced reply from him. I guess I wanted him to reply and say he didn't feel forced and that he wanted to. But he's not a mind reader. I don't blame him really though I am still annoyed with him.

And thanks re the ex. If feels like I have a lot of pain to feel over that news that isn't safe to let myself feel just yet.

Bizarrely an email has just come up in my inbox from T which was sent at 5pm UK time, but has only just appeared.
It says:

Hi Echos
In response to your messages I want to let you know that I have read them both. I hope you are able to keep 'going with' what's happening.
Best wishes, T

Pfft.

Hugs echos. I'm sorry you didn't get a better more feeling response from him.

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

Bizarrely an email has just come up in my inbox from T which was sent at 5pm UK time, but has only just appeared.
It says:

Hi Echos
In response to your messages I want to let you know that I have read them both. I hope you are able to keep 'going with' what's happening.
Best wishes, T

Pfft.

hugs.... how are you now? i know how awful that can feel

[velcro003]

What is that even supposed to mean?! I'm sorry you did not get a sufficient reply.

I've been trying to distract myself. I know, it's such a nothing reply it might as well have been silence. It's like I badgered him into replying when he had no idea what to say.

[stopdog]

I don't understand the response. Sorry to hear it was not a more useful response.

[cinnamon_roll]

I'm sorry to hear that his reply was so meaningless... I hate those moments. Desperately waiting for a "sign" only to realize that it doesn't mean anything. Disappointments x 1000.

T on holiday simply sucks. That's a fact.

Echoes, use this space to vent and to unload your frustrations if it helps at all. And take care of the little echoes as well.

I had talked a little bit with him about going with the flow on the holiday to help me not get stressed. But I'm not sure how to 'go with' what I found out about my ex.
It's not a frigging flight delay.
When he said I can email him while I was away, I expected a more substantial response than usual, seen as I was missing the session. But clearly he only has time for me on a Wednesday if I pay him. So long as I understand the arrangement.

[Waterbear]

Oh Echoes, I really feel for you. Truly. I can't imagine how you are feeling, and I am sorry he didn't get this right. I kind of want to tell you not to waste your holiday though, because if it was me, I would only regret doing so later on. Easier said than done though!!

[junkDNA]

have you talked about what you need from his emails with him? has he ever really given you what you needed thru an email? im not sure if you just post here when it's not a good email, but from what i've read, it seems he sends a couple vague sentences and that's it

however, i dont think that translates to him not caring and spouting out something just to appease you in the moment. how comfortable is he with emailing about serious things?

i know the pain of hoping for something a little more from T and getting something that almost makes it worse, like if he hadn't of responded- i might had been better off. i've definitely been there and felt that! hang in there, hold on to your trust with him. think of you sitting there with him, and imagine this convo... he really isnt that abrupt and short in person

I don't think we ever have had an explicit conversation about it, you are right that we probably should. There is one email from him, a while back, that I have saved that I particularly loved. Here it is:

Hi Echos,
I was very pleased that a new level of understanding emerged during our session today. I was reading a lovely passage about emergence in the therapeutic field (in an otherwise unpromising book) when your email arrived. So I want to credit us with allowing this new understanding to emerge!
I think your early experience is likely to prove to be simultaneously both one of your most significant vulnerabilities and the source of your greatest strengths as a therapist. It usually seems to work like that!
See you next week.
T

See how much more human he sounds in that email?

I appreciate your responses Junk, I know you've been struggling with all this stuff yourself and a different point of view is helpful.
You might be right that he isn't comfortable with the heavier topics via email. But then he invited me to email him about my ex while I am away. I didn't ask him for that, he suggested it.

Reading the above email actually helped because it reminds me of his 'real' voice. As opposed to, as you said, a couple of vague sentences, which feel to me awkward and meaningless.

[junkDNA]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I don't think we ever have had an explicit conversation about it, you are right that we probably should. There is one email from him, a while back, that I have saved that I particularly loved. Here it is:


See how much more human he sounds in that email?

I appreciate your responses Junk, I know you've been struggling with all this stuff yourself and a different point of view is helpful.
You might be right that he isn't comfortable with the heavier topics via email. But then he invited me to email him about my ex while I am away. I didn't ask him for that, he suggested it.

Reading the above email actually helped because it reminds me of his 'real' voice. As opposed to, as you said, a couple of vague sentences, which feel to me awkward and meaningless.

He invited you to email but did he say he would reply? You.also kind of implied you didn't want him to, or at least you said you didn't want him to feel.forced to. Seems like there's an invisible tangled Web around communication and wants/needs

He didn't say "I will reply" but he replies to most of my emails so I assumed he'd drop me a couple of lines rather than a wall of silence. I told him I didn't want a forced reply in my second email to him. And I truly didn't. But that's what I got.
I know it's complex and miscommunication is inevitable. All I ask for is consistency, predictability. I don't want to be left wondering what to expect. That's what makes my relationship with him safe.

[Sarmas]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I sent T an email telling him I was mad at him for not replying. I said I'm not saying he's done anything wrong in not replying but that's how I feel anyway.
I told him what I learned about my ex. Then I told him I didn't want a forced response from him. That I am okay with being mad at him. This is his last working day till the 24th because he's taking holiday.
I feel pretty low today though I've been distracted in the daytime. I feel uncomfortable with leaving things like this with T even though it's my own fault.
Just offloading I guess.

Sorry to hear that. No responses really upset me as well. I know it makes me feel unimportant and as if I'm not being heard. I don't take this well but my T once told me that the only time she is obligated to answer me is during session. I get that because that's when she gets paid which then births everything into perspective. It's basically a business where service provided with payment and it's not ongoing. Of course every T doesn't function the same way. I guess I feel that it's human to care. A quick reply or acknowledgement of receipt of your email wouldn't hurt.

[Oliviab]

Originally Posted by Echos Myron

I told him I didn't want a forced reply in my second email to him. And I truly didn't. But that's what I got.

I have such a mixed experience with e-mail with my T. We have an agreement that he will respond sometimes if he thinks it's warranted, but not always, but of course I want him to respond always. And his responses are very much like your T's--pretty vague and short (because he doesn't want to "do therapy" by e-mail). Mainly I use them to feel connected to him and it usually helps, but when he doesn't respond then it doesn't, and occasionally even when he does respond it doesn't.

I can also tell him if I really want him to respond to something, and then he does, but I try to limit those because I don't want to be too needy. And, like you said, then the reply feels forced.

Sorry--that's more info than you need, but I wanted to explain that there are some similarities--I guess I'm trying to build up my credibility for what I'm going to say next.

I don't think you can assume that his reply was forced. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he took in your e-mails and sent a reply because he WANTED to, which doesn't mean it wasn't a clumsy reply or a particularly helpful one.

In your e-mail to him, you said you didn't want a forced reply and he very well may have complied with that. But what you really wanted was really supportive, meaningful reply, and that's where he perhaps fell down, though probably not intentionally. I think it's hard for Ts to "be there" via e-mail the way we want them to be.

I'm sorry you're hurting and that your T has been unable to support you right now the way you need.

Originally Posted by Oliviab

I have such a mixed experience with e-mail with my T. We have an agreement that he will respond sometimes if he thinks it's warranted, but not always, but of course I want him to respond always. And his responses are very much like your T's--pretty vague and short (because he doesn't want to "do therapy" by e-mail). Mainly I use them to feel connected to him and it usually helps, but when he doesn't respond then it doesn't, and occasionally even when he does respond it doesn't.

I can also tell him if I really want him to respond to something, and then he does, but I try to limit those because I don't want to be too needy. And, like you said, then the reply feels forced.

Sorry--that's more info than you need, but I wanted to explain that there are some similarities--I guess I'm trying to build up my credibility for what I'm going to say next.

I don't think you can assume that his reply was forced. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he took in your e-mails and sent a reply because he WANTED to, which doesn't mean it wasn't a clumsy reply or a particularly helpful one.

In your e-mail to him, you said you didn't want a forced reply and he very well may have complied with that. But what you really wanted was really supportive, meaningful reply, and that's where he perhaps fell down, though probably not intentionally. I think it's hard for Ts to "be there" via e-mail the way we want them to be.

I'm sorry you're hurting and that your T has been unable to support you right now the way you need.

Thanks for this Olivia, it sounds like you have a similar arrangement with your T as i do with mine. Ordinarily I don't mind when he doesn't reply but because I'm missing two sessions and because he specifically suggested i emailed, i thought this was different.
Like you i sometimes specifically ask for a response (not often) and i often put "no need to reply" in which case he doesn't.
Logically i know this is nothing more than a misunderstanding of my needs but feelings are what they are i guess. It's a bit of a reminder that a) i need to be more explicit about my needs and b) I'm just a client.

I don't know about being: 'just a client'. You are his life's work, you're important to him. Here's another perspective: I have a friend who, for a year has been having a really tough time. She messages myself and another friend nearly everyday about the ongoing difficulties in her life. I love her and I am here for her, but it isn't easy replying to her messages, I sometimes spend quite a time composing my reply. My husband can be waiting for me to come to bed. It's quite an intrusion into a T's time off, to ask them to go into T mode and reply to us. It might take 20 minutes or more for them to compose a thoughtful response that they will then read through, and may amend.

It is not an intrusion into his time off. I emailed him on the day of my session, because I didn't have a session and that's what we had agreed. I appreciate your response is intended to be helpful Brown Owl. But I'm not sorry for my feelings whether they are reasonable wrong or whatever. He's not my friend, I have paid him over £4000 over the last 2 years.
As I said in the OP, I told him that I'm not saying he did anything wrong in not replying (since we hadn't actually reached a consensus on that) but I certainly don't feel like it's an intrusion.

I wondered if my post might have been irritating.

Not irritating, just off base.

[Elio]

Well, I choose (caved?) to email T today, so much for my resolve. I missed the window of what has become the most reliable timing by 30 mins, so who knows when she'll reply. My arrangement with her is that she will always reply when she has access and opportunity. So it is not a matter of if but a matter of when.

All I said was:

Hi,

Not as mad. Email me please. Poke, touch.

Sorry,
me

I think that conveys pretty clearly where I was in that moment of emailing. Now.. 2 hours later, a work meeting under my belt, no email from her (yet)... the adult me is pretty much disgusted with the fact that I emailed and with my choice of breakfast as I am dealing with a sugar headache now.

Echos, I'm sorry that the situation has unfolded the way it has. I'm sure once those parts of you are able to ?? (calm, work past it, gets tired from the tantrum... whatever it is for you/me); you'll come back to the base of knowing and remembering the good that your T does.

'Tis where I am (or heading)... picking myself up, dusting it off, and trying to figure out where and what it was all about.

Doesn't make what you have been through (what I have been through) any less valid, less important, or less real - hurtful, painful. It is what it was - which for me was painful, leaving me hurting and angry for many days.

Hugs, if you want them.

[cinnamon_roll]

I find that I get many things mixed together whenever I email my T. on the surface I might "only" ask for some reassurance. But the (subconscious?) undercurrent might express the wish: T, please come and rescue me!

So if I'm not clear and specific with myself what it is that I want/need from T, I tend to set myself up for disappointments. And I'm putting my T in the difficult position that she can only send the "wrong" reply. No matter what she does or doesn't say.

Also, I've realized that with current T, email simply isn't her favourite medium for expressing herself. With my former T this was completely different. She sent really warm and heartfelt emails that really helped me to find solid ground again and helped to remember/feel the connection that I normally felt in our sessions. Current T, who is brilliant in face to face contact, just hasn't got the gift of writing, I feel. Which I find sad, having experienced the benefits of additional e-mail support with my old T.

For some alternative "support" during breaks current T has started to lend me a children's book, a different one each time. She's got a huge collection of wonderful kid's books, and somehow always finds a book that covers some of the aspects that we are talking about at the time.