Emergency appointments

May 14, 2017, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietMind

Mona, it is NOT your fault that you "allowed' ex T to treat you that way. You are not to blame.

Yes reenactments happen (that is what is happening with my friend with SO MANY bad therapists) but the therapist should work hard not to play a part in them.

I need to dig up a book about therapist's countertransference in the treatment of complex trauma. Basically some therapists blame the patient with complex trauma and act out sadistic, dismissive and other negative feelings towards the patient. That is not the fault of the patient. The patient also often takes it from the therapist and that is also not the fault of the patient.

My friend has had numerous sadistic Ts. Some react that way almost immediately. Some outright insult my friend like how your ex T insulted you repeatedly. Mock, belittle, jeer at, laugh at, shout at, sneer at.

My friend is learning to walk away from these Ts. There have been some OK ones but they're understandably wary because they haven't found a T able to work with heavy dissociation and dissociative rage and alter parts.

I don't know how to gently tell you that how your ex T treated you is horribly abusive and wrong. And that it is not your fault. Not my friend's fault too. Yes we're attracted to abusive people and stay despite the abuse. Yes it is a pattern. But it's not your fault.

One can also argue that these Ts KNOW they're being sadistic and yet they CHOOSE to act on their urges, sometimes even blaming the patient. Saying stuff like "you make me want to kick you", I could go on and on about the things Ts have said to my friend.

This sounds very familiar, thank you for your post QM. My t knew she was being abusive that night she went a little crazy, she did apologise afterwards. I guess I get sucked in sometimes because I know she is going through a rotten time right now. It's no excuse but I can understand why she is lashing out a lot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by velcro003

Oh, but YES YOU CAN blame her entirely!!! This was NOT your fault. She held the power, therefore she was the abuser.

Ugh. I'm sorry you believe this.

But I was a willing participant and so I am as much to blame as she was.

velcro003 · May 14, 2017, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

But I was a willing participant and so I am as much to blame as she was.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. The one who holds the power is the abuser, doesn't matter that you are an adult.

May 14, 2017, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velcro003

Well we will just have to agree to disagree. The one who holds the power is the abuser, doesn't matter that you are an adult.

This is why I feel so responsible because I am an adult and a trained therapist. I knowingly participated. Granted t did take advantage of her power over me. She knew I wouldn't fight her but it's hard to blame her when all along I knew I was allowing it.

May 14, 2017, 04:42 PM

Mona, you can still acknowledge your own role without blaming yourself. it's really sad that you are 'owning' her issues too.

Great post QuietMind. If you have an article I would love the link too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuietMind

Mona, it is NOT your fault that you "allowed' ex T to treat you that way. You are not to blame.

Yes reenactments happen (that is what is happening with my friend with SO MANY bad therapists) but the therapist should work hard not to play a part in them.

I need to dig up a book about therapist's countertransference in the treatment of complex trauma. Basically some therapists blame the patient with complex trauma and act out sadistic, dismissive and other negative feelings towards the patient. That is not the fault of the patient. The patient also often takes it from the therapist and that is also not the fault of the patient.

My friend has had numerous sadistic Ts. Some react that way almost immediately. Some outright insult my friend like how your ex T insulted you repeatedly. Mock, belittle, jeer at, laugh at, shout at, sneer at.

My friend is learning to walk away from these Ts. There have been some OK ones but they're understandably wary because they haven't found a T able to work with heavy dissociation and dissociative rage and alter parts.

I don't know how to gently tell you that how your ex T treated you is horribly abusive and wrong. And that it is not your fault. Not my friend's fault too. Yes we're attracted to abusive people and stay despite the abuse. Yes it is a pattern. But it's not your fault.

One can also argue that these Ts KNOW they're being sadistic and yet they CHOOSE to act on their urges, sometimes even blaming the patient. Saying stuff like "you make me want to kick you", I could go on and on about the things Ts have said to my friend.

kecanoe · May 14, 2017, 08:05 PM

Mona, I also firmly believe that the person with the power is responsible for the abuse. Even when it is adult/adult. If I am mean to someone in my congregation (I am clergy) I am responsible for that, no matter how they act toward me nor how much they keep coming back. I must not abuse the power.

But, on your topic, my t's would be fine with an extra session if they had space on their schedule. It would depend entirely on if they had a slot available, or if they could make one available. I am quite sure that is true for all of their clients. T1 (who I actually ask for extra sessions) will call if his schedule is full, or will call if that is what I want. T2 and T3 have an emergency line where one of the ts at that practice is available. I believe the person on call will talk on the phone rather than see you in person. T2 has said that if I call the emergency line, she has it set up so they will call her. I believe she does this for only some of her clients. She has said that she wants to be part of my safety plan, and to call before I go to the ER. If I call while she is in session, she would call me back.

May 15, 2017, 07:19 AM

Skies, Mona,

I will have to search the book more deeply when I'm in a better frame of mind (too tired to do some heavy reading) but I THINK the book is "Countertransference and the Treatment of Trauma" by Constance J. Da len berg. I picked it up because I was researching very specifically on therapist sadism as a response to complex trauma survivors, because my friend commented that they seemed to elict these responses and told me about several therapists being outright dismissive, minimising, mocking, jeering etc. I don't believe these were "projections" on my friend's part.

Quote:

Therapist anger, hatred, and hostile response to clients form one of the two emotional reactions that gain most attention in the literature on countertransference and transference in trauma therapy (the other being love and sexual feelings). In some respects, the therapist’s or client’s hatred or anger are seen as more acceptable in the literature-less as a sign of a problem in the relationship-than are strong positive or sexual feelings in either individual (see chapter 8). Nevertheless, the therapist’s anger is a problem from the perspective of the client, as participants in the Trauma Countertransference Study noted. Eighty-six percent stated that they experienced at least one instance in which the therapist directed angry responses to them that one or both members of the dyad later considered inappropriate. Thirty-eight percent stated that their therapists ”lost control” at least once during therapy and engaged in a behavioral act of cruelty.

Quote:

The dissociative therapist will more easily fall into compatible repetition cycles offered by the client, trading the role of sadistic at- tacker and innocent victim back and forth with the equally unwitting partner. Both therapist and client in these instances are likely to blame one another, claiming that each is compelled to action by the other’s behavior.

Elio · May 15, 2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

But I was a willing participant and so I am as much to blame as she was.

Hi Mona,

(All of this is my opinion)... I agree that you were a willing participant and even more - you demanded it of her (see attached excerpt from “Why Therapy Works: Using Our Minds to Change Our Brains” by Louis Cozolino Chapter 7. I don't have the page numbers.) It was her job not to get sucked into your patterns and that is where the abuse and the blame falls; why it falls completely on her shoulders. Of course we as clients with attachment issues are going to try to get our T's to respond in certain ways. It is one of the reasons we are seeking a T in the first place, because we have these patterns of behaviors that we have found not to be all that helpful for us and we kind of don't know how to make it be different. Your xT did not do her job but instead got sucked into your pattern and provided abusive therapy. That is not your fault in the sense of blame, that is hers. I by no means blame you for how she treated you, she had a choice in how to deal with your reasons for seeking therapy; becoming abusive or re-traumatizing is not one that is acceptable and not one that you should own.

And yeah, you being a T is a thing, it is not a thing that makes you free from having your own set of behavior patterns that you find unhelpful and wanting to address. Your xT (and current T) should be working with those patterns in a way to help you reach your goals.

I hope this doesn't come across as angry as I feel. My anger is not at you, it is at your xT and what she put you through in the guise of therapy. It was not therapeutic, not enough therapeutic, and it was full of abuse and ruptures.

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