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  #1  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 08:37 AM
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rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
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I hardly thought about my T this week, which was a relief after the last few sessions where I've been grieving about parts not being able to get what they want from her. I didn't cry at home about my mother either. I hope this is a good sign that I'm in the acceptance stage of grief.

I am wondering, though, why some weeks are like that, and some aren't. It seemed like I was more adult in the session so I didn't leave all stirred up. I asked T if she was taking off a lot of time for her daughter's wedding. She said it was next August, not this summer! Then she had to send her other daughter a text or email. I identified with her as a mother in both instances. I talked about something about MY daughter in the session too. So I was in adult mode.

She asked me how I would feel if "down the road" we separated. I told her I was glad she wasn't kicking me out!
When I asked if my problem could only be my mother's death, she said no, because my behavior and feeling​s don't start at age 30. She meant the borderline traits that indicate an early attachment problem, not simply grief after my Mom died.

I have to ask her this week if the child parts still need to unburden themselves, or are they done? It's nice to not be crying all week, but I don't trust it. I wrote in my email "I don't​ ever want to separate from you" yet I had a week in which I did fine! Can others relate?
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  #2  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 08:57 AM
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Ellahmae Ellahmae is offline
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Yes, this is due to how much whatever we talked about still affects me. Some days we do therapy light, which we just chit chat with daily going on's, or nothing at all. Some days we do therapy heavy. Often I find that sometimes the 'light going ons' are affecting me more than I thought and leave me more clingy/distressed than the heavy deep work. Perhaps because I'm still so separated from the past/trauma etc.
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  #3  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 09:14 AM
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DodgersMom DodgersMom is offline
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I'm feeling this for the first time.... not sure why, maybe its because last week I had 2 sessions, called and emailed him. we were in contact 4 of 5 days. Maybe it's because in the email I sent a list of things I want to discuss, and I been thinking about them alot now

No idea but I am so overwhelmed by my feelings, I am not sure how I'll make it until Friday. I am not good with emotions and not used to them, so very unsure of how to process everything

I don't wanna bother him either by more emails or calls... limits I set on myself, he is fine with it... but I just feel like I may pass out by Friday. I hope that journalling and biking will help some. Not sure

I hate feeling like this, I had no idea how exhausting therapy can be
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  #4  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 10:54 AM
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ScarletPimpernel ScarletPimpernel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow8 View Post
I have to ask her this week if the child parts still need to unburden themselves, or are they done? It's nice to not be crying all week, but I don't trust it. I wrote in my email "I don't​ ever want to separate from you" yet I had a week in which I did fine! Can others relate?
One, it's not up to your T if your child parts still need to "unburden" themselves. For me personally, it's never done. My child part is always there. Sometimes it comes out when I'm in a good mood and I'll be playful. Sometimes it comes out when I'm hurting and will need comforting.

What I learned about grieving (from ex-T abandoning me) is that the cycle isn't exact nor does it necessarily finish after one cycle. I don't know how many cycles I've gone through with ex-T, but more than one (it's been 2 years). And each stage has been different. Like this last time, I went from anger to acceptance...skipped over bargaining and depression. And I can't really do the bargaining stage anymore because I'm not allowed to contact ex-T. Grieving is different for everyone.

Also, just because you're doing fine doesn't mean you don't need your T.
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  #5  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 12:19 PM
Anonymous58205
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Yes, I can relate Rainbow and often wondered the same. I know the weeks I pine for ex t and when she was my t were weeks when I was really lonely, I knew my personal life wasn't going very well, my relationships and friendships and that's when I longed for t the most.
It sounds as though you are coming to an acceptance of your grief, it also sounds as though the child parts aren't don't and are very much still there waiting to be heard. What do you think?
I think they will always be a part of you, the emotional part! It sounds as though you need to get rid of them, they are a part of you, the little Rainbow who gets very sad when she thinks her will leave, i also think that you abandon them when they are kicking up and crying for love and attention. Your t can't be there for them all the time but you can and you can soothe them and never leave them again.
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  #6  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 12:20 PM
Anonymous58205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel View Post
One, it's not up to your T if your child parts still need to "unburden" themselves. For me personally, it's never done. My child part is always there. Sometimes it comes out when I'm in a good mood and I'll be playful. Sometimes it comes out when I'm hurting and will need comforting.


What I learned about grieving (from ex-T abandoning me) is that the cycle isn't exact nor does it necessarily finish after one cycle. I don't know how many cycles I've gone through with ex-T, but more than one (it's been 2 years). And each stage has been different. Like this last time, I went from anger to acceptance...skipped over bargaining and depression. And I can't really do the bargaining stage anymore because I'm not allowed to contact ex-T. Grieving is different for everyone.


Also, just because you're doing fine doesn't mean you don't need your T.


Great post
Thanks for this!
rainbow8, ScarletPimpernel, unaluna
  #7  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 01:08 PM
Anonymous50005
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I'm going to take a different perspective on this. I saw the title of the thread, and my reaction was "because that's the way life works." Of course, I knew there was more to your question and totally realize that first reaction is far too simple.

However, is it really? Grief really IS that way. I'm speaking from the perspective of having lost probably the two most important women, perhaps people, in my life in the last 5 years, most recently my mother two weeks ago. It is completely normal to have days or weeks even when things seem pretty normal. I can think about them without getting emotional. I can think of them positively. I carry about my life pretty unscathed.

But then I have times, sometimes just an hour, sometimes a whole day, sometimes a bit longer, when the grief is intense. I find myself very emotional, very weepy, a bit on the depressed side.

One thing my therapist reminded me of when I started experiencing this with my sister is that all of the above is perfectly normal. Even years or decades later, it is completely normal at times for that grief to go through its ebbs and flows. He cautioned me against pathologizing normal grief. Instead, he said, just acknowledge it, experience it, and let it run its course because it will ebb and flow if I don't fight it, suppress it, or insist on pathologizing it. Those were wise words of advice that were helpful to me.

Yes, your mother's death was a long time ago, but did you allow yourself to be okay with the grief? Maybe it is time to just let yourself acknowledge her passing. Does she have a grave? Can you go visit it? Last week when we were burying my mother's ashes my sister and I picked out flowers for her grave, the graves of our two sisters who passed before her, our grandparents, our great grandparents, and our great-great grandparents on both sides. Kind of amazing that they are all buried in the same cemetery, but also very helpful. Those burial rituals, the visiting of the graves, reading the tombstones, etc. are one of the reasons why we are able to let those who have died go. It's a very concrete reminder.

It is okay for some weeks to be better than others. Right now when I'm having one of those days, I just let myself cry without judgment. It passes. Life is different after we separate from someone, whether from their death or for some other reason; it HAS to be different and that change can't be avoided. I sense you spend a lot of time trying to avoid change, avoid separation; you anticipate it and even seem to grieve about it before it has even happened. But life is full of separations and change; you really can't avoid that.

I'm kind of rambling, but I guess what I hope for you is that you can just let yourself have feelings without having to over-analyze them. Changes in emotions are something everyone experiences, but when we become so focused on interpreting every emotional change as somehow wrong, as something to not be trusted, then we keep ourselves in a constant state of anxiety. If we can reach a place of just acknowledging and allowing our normal emotions to just be normal, they pass on their own without being turned into something that has to be "fixed." Not everything has to be fixed; some things just need to be honored.
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  #8  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 07:34 PM
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ruh roh ruh roh is offline
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Hi Rainbow, I wonder how much of the angst is more out of a need for intense emotions—which you associate with closeness--than a burden that needs to be shed? In other words, more about an individual's own make-up (ex: easier times and not needing any contact feel great to me).
Thanks for this!
rainbow8
  #9  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 08:26 PM
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rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellahmae View Post
Yes, this is due to how much whatever we talked about still affects me. Some days we do therapy light, which we just chit chat with daily going on's, or nothing at all. Some days we do therapy heavy. Often I find that sometimes the 'light going ons' are affecting me more than I thought and leave me more clingy/distressed than the heavy deep work. Perhaps because I'm still so separated from the past/trauma etc.
Thank you. That's an interesting observation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DodgersMom View Post
I'm feeling this for the first time.... not sure why, maybe its because last week I had 2 sessions, called and emailed him. we were in contact 4 of 5 days. Maybe it's because in the email I sent a list of things I want to discuss, and I been thinking about them alot now

No idea but I am so overwhelmed by my feelings, I am not sure how I'll make it until Friday. I am not good with emotions and not used to them, so very unsure of how to process everything

I don't wanna bother him either by more emails or calls... limits I set on myself, he is fine with it... but I just feel like I may pass out by Friday. I hope that journalling and biking will help some. Not sure

I hate feeling like this, I had no idea how exhausting therapy can be
Yes, therapy can be exhausting! I never used to express my feelings but things got better. Take it slowly and you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel View Post
One, it's not up to your T if your child parts still need to "unburden" themselves. For me personally, it's never done. My child part is always there. Sometimes it comes out when I'm in a good mood and I'll be playful. Sometimes it comes out when I'm hurting and will need comforting.

What I learned about grieving (from ex-T abandoning me) is that the cycle isn't exact nor does it necessarily finish after one cycle. I don't know how many cycles I've gone through with ex-T, but more than one (it's been 2 years). And each stage has been different. Like this last time, I went from anger to acceptance...skipped over bargaining and depression. And I can't really do the bargaining stage anymore because I'm not allowed to contact ex-T. Grieving is different for everyone.

Also, just because you're doing fine doesn't mean you don't need your T.
Thank you. What I meant is that T told me child parts need to unburden themselves so they can go back to just being kids. I was never sure what she meant by that. She's said it before too. The hospice T and my own T talked about grieving and how grief comes in waves.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monalisasmile View Post
Yes, I can relate Rainbow and often wondered the same. I know the weeks I pine for ex t and when she was my t were weeks when I was really lonely, I knew my personal life wasn't going very well, my relationships and friendships and that's when I longed for t the most.
It sounds as though you are coming to an acceptance of your grief, it also sounds as though the child parts aren't don't and are very much still there waiting to be heard. What do you think?
I think they will always be a part of you, the emotional part! It sounds as though you need to get rid of them, they are a part of you, the little Rainbow who gets very sad when she thinks her will leave, i also think that you abandon them when they are kicking up and crying for love and attention. Your t can't be there for them all the time but you can and you can soothe them and never leave them again.
You're right I think. The child parts have more to say, like writing in my email that I never want to separate from T. I think they have to tell T and myself why it's so scary. I'm not sure why, though. T is trying to get me to soothe them but I'm still not sure how. I guess wrapping up in a blanket is one way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolagrace View Post
I'm going to take a different perspective on this. I saw the title of the thread, and my reaction was "because that's the way life works." Of course, I knew there was more to your question and totally realize that first reaction is far too simple.

However, is it really? Grief really IS that way. I'm speaking from the perspective of having lost probably the two most important women, perhaps people, in my life in the last 5 years, most recently my mother two weeks ago. It is completely normal to have days or weeks even when things seem pretty normal. I can think about them without getting emotional. I can think of them positively. I carry about my life pretty unscathed.

But then I have times, sometimes just an hour, sometimes a whole day, sometimes a bit longer, when the grief is intense. I find myself very emotional, very weepy, a bit on the depressed side.

One thing my therapist reminded me of when I started experiencing this with my sister is that all of the above is perfectly normal. Even years or decades later, it is completely normal at times for that grief to go through its ebbs and flows. He cautioned me against pathologizing normal grief. Instead, he said, just acknowledge it, experience it, and let it run its course because it will ebb and flow if I don't fight it, suppress it, or insist on pathologizing it. Those were wise words of advice that were helpful to me.

Yes, your mother's death was a long time ago, but did you allow yourself to be okay with the grief? Maybe it is time to just let yourself acknowledge her passing. Does she have a grave? Can you go visit it? Last week when we were burying my mother's ashes my sister and I picked out flowers for her grave, the graves of our two sisters who passed before her, our grandparents, our great grandparents, and our great-great grandparents on both sides. Kind of amazing that they are all buried in the same cemetery, but also very helpful. Those burial rituals, the visiting of the graves, reading the tombstones, etc. are one of the reasons why we are able to let those who have died go. It's a very concrete reminder.

It is okay for some weeks to be better than others. Right now when I'm having one of those days, I just let myself cry without judgment. It passes. Life is different after we separate from someone, whether from their death or for some other reason; it HAS to be different and that change can't be avoided. I sense you spend a lot of time trying to avoid change, avoid separation; you anticipate it and even seem to grieve about it before it has even happened. But life is full of separations and change; you really can't avoid that.

I'm kind of rambling, but I guess what I hope for you is that you can just let yourself have feelings without having to over-analyze them. Changes in emotions are something everyone experiences, but when we become so focused on interpreting every emotional change as somehow wrong, as something to not be trusted, then we keep ourselves in a constant state of anxiety. If we can reach a place of just acknowledging and allowing our normal emotions to just be normal, they pass on their own without being turned into something that has to be "fixed." Not everything has to be fixed; some things just need to be honored.
Thanks for writing so eloquently, Lola. Everything you said is true about grief; I was told the same things. But like to analyze my emotions. I'm not looking to always fix them, at least in the case of grief. It's very good for me to cry and acknowledge the people in my life who are no longer here. I didn't use to do that.

I was curious about what happened or didn't happen in my session to enable me to not think about my T this week. Not just why wasn't I grieving. How to separate from her is what I need to accomplish even while I am still seeing her weekly. So the grieving for other people seems to help. Talking to her as mother to mother helps too. But the child parts still need to grieve in the session or I won't have closure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
Hi Rainbow, I wonder how much of the angst is more out of a need for intense emotions—which you associate with closeness--than a burden that needs to be shed? In other words, more about an individual's own make-up (ex: easier times and not needing any contact feel great to me).
You have a point. I crave the intense emotions with my T. And the closeness. However, the idea that child parts need to unburden themselves came from T, not me! She says that needs to happen so they can play like children do. I never understood that concept. I will ask her again. I do feel intense emotions in real life but it's not the same.
Thanks for this!
LonesomeTonight, ruh roh
  #10  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 09:24 PM
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ruh roh ruh roh is offline
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I didn't realize that you didn't have a playful childhood. I thought it was more that you didn't know why you feel this way, but that your childhood (at least, what you recall) was stable. Sorry I got that wrong.
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  #11  
Old Jun 19, 2017, 10:10 PM
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rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
I didn't realize that you didn't have a playful childhood. I thought it was more that you didn't know why you feel this way, but that your childhood (at least, what you recall) was stable. Sorry I got that wrong.
I did have a stable, playful childhood! The only major problem was, I thought, being extremely shy and having selective mutism. But apparently the attachment issues started with my mother, and led to being diagnosed as BPD by 5 Ts independently. Whatever I missed from my parents is what I have to grieve. Whatever it is that makes separation so difficult, and makes me want to stay in therapy and repeat my pattern. But I don't understand what T means exactly about the unburdening, if that's the same as grieving. I think she's using it in an IFS context.
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  #12  
Old Jun 20, 2017, 06:03 AM
JaneTennison1 JaneTennison1 is offline
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What if you just have BPD, no cause and no terrible childhood, what if it's just there. Your T doesn't have to be right on everything.
Thanks for this!
rainbow8
  #13  
Old Jun 20, 2017, 06:29 AM
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rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JaneTennison1 View Post
What if you just have BPD, no cause and no terrible childhood, what if it's just there. Your T doesn't have to be right on everything.
No one ever said I had a terrible childhood! Five Ts with different orientations were all wrong? They all said basically the same thing about my mother and the fit not being right, and so on. Not that anything was terrible at all! Early attachment problems is what they said.
  #14  
Old Jun 20, 2017, 06:11 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rainbow8 View Post
No one ever said I had a terrible childhood! Five Ts with different orientations were all wrong? They all said basically the same thing about my mother and the fit not being right, and so on. Not that anything was terrible at all! Early attachment problems is what they said.
My T has repeatedly said that the fit was not right between me and my mother, too--interesting! Especially because we seem to have many of the same attachment issues... I've never been diagnosed as BPD, but have OCD, generalized anxiety, panic disorder, and recurring depression that might actually be bipolar II. And when I mentioned to T I thought I had insecure attachment, she was like, "Um, you think?" I also didn't have a terrible childhood--but didn't get emotional support that I needed or understanding, especially regarding my mental health issues.
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  #15  
Old Jun 20, 2017, 06:34 PM
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LonesomeTonight LonesomeTonight is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruh roh View Post
Hi Rainbow, I wonder how much of the angst is more out of a need for intense emotions—which you associate with closeness--than a burden that needs to be shed? In other words, more about an individual's own make-up (ex: easier times and not needing any contact feel great to me).
Not to derail, but this makes me think about my own situation. How sometimes with MC, it's like when I feel this longing, this intense need to connect with him, then e-mail (or text), then don't hear back for a bit (and worry for no reason), then eventually do hear back, then...I don't know how to describe the feeling, other than intense--intense relief, intense love for him. But then weeks I don't feel that, where maybe I don't contact him at all, or just send him some quick update e-mail about something...it's like I almost miss that intensity. Or sessions where I end up crying during and/or afterward vs. ones that are less intense, then I end up feeling less connected.

And, on a different note, I think back to a few past relationships, particularly my college boyfriend, where it was great the first 6-9 months, then turned into this tumultuous thing where he'd be having doubts, then the next day say how much he loved me, that I was all he had to live for, stuff like that. Things would be fine for a bit, then like that again (looking back, pretty sure he was undiagnosed bipolar--he definitely had depression issues, as did I, though he insisted I was the only one who needed to get help). Till we split up at the year and a half mark. I had some difficulty with other relationships after that where there wasn't that intensity. Including with H--and I still struggle with that. I realized I was better off with a relationship that *wasn't* tumultuous like that...but at times I still miss it, even though it was unhealthy. Yet I don't like when H expresses anger at me, so maybe that doesn't make sense...then again, it's like like college ex really expressed *anger* at me really, just doubts, being unsure of his love for me.

Will stop derailing now! That post just made me think...might be a discussion for T next week.
Thanks for this!
rainbow8
  #16  
Old Jun 21, 2017, 10:23 AM
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peaches100 peaches100 is offline
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Rainbow,

I think the reason you have some weeks that are easier is because you related to your t on a primarily adult level. When you relate on a child level, though, then I think you feel at least some of that separation angst upon leaving. I've noticed that pattern in myself.
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rainbow8
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