How do you ask your T if s/he loves you?

I have been with my T for three and a half years. A few times, in that first year, she told me she loved me. Sometimes would even sign Emails with "Love, T". All of a sudden things changed with her, boundaries started changing, and she...well, just changed. I talked to her about the use of the word "love" and she said that word is reserved for family and close people in her life. Knowing she used to say it to me, that broke my heart. Several months later I wanted to tell her something difficult. Something I was scared to admit to her. She knew I was struggling with sharing it. I came close. But then I sort of panicked, then asked her "do you love me?" She didn't like that, apparently....she never answered, but I got an Email from her later accusing me of being a bully for asking that. Broke my heart.

This sounds awful. Are you still with this T? Did you resolve it?

Boundaries' changes can be very confusing...
My T said "I can't use the word "love" with you", but after ~2 more sessions he said "I love you"
I think he regrets it. Now he can say "I care" or "I don't hate you", but not the word "love".
I don't want to ask, because I'm afraid his answer will break my heart.

Your T says, "I don't hate you"? Is he being serious, not kidding around?

That's... wow. I don't really want my T's to "love" me (attachment issues, I would run away ) but... saying that they "don't hate you" (unless they're just joking) seems really harsh/cruel.

Sorry - I don't mean to make it worse! Just, that seems like such a horribly untherapeutic response!

I mean he says that if I ask him "Do you hate me?"
And he would not say "I like you" or "I love you", but just "I don't hate you"
Sorry for being unclear

ETA: Maybe he just doesn't want to say it too often and I'm overthinking? I don't know. I'll never ask, because... see above

Yes I am. I figured it would be best to resolve it with HER. I do have a strong attachment to her which keeps me coming back. But that issue, and all of the issues that happened shortly before (major rupture over sudden, undiscussed boundary changes) has crippled me. Her actions have made me feelworse about myself rather than better, and she knows this. She pretty much took everything than meant anything to me away. And stupidly, I'm still with her, twice a week as I always have been. I even got another therapist to deal with my issues with the first one....but the hurt is too deep.....

It sounds like many Ts are inconsistent about expressing love to their clients, including my T. They also have different definitions of love, which can be confusing. For a few years my T was very clear with me that she couldn't say "I love you" to me. She told me that word is reserved for her close friends and family. Of course I was hurt by that, but at least she always told me she cared deeply for me and had a special place in her heart for me.

Then she read a book called Love101 or 1.0, or maybe 2.0 or something like that. I'm too tired to look up the title now. She started talking about loving everyone, and how it's a different kind of love.

One day I was totally shocked when she signed an email to me "Love, T." I asked her if she made a mistake! She said no, and told me that most Ts come to love their clients. Then we talked about "therapy love", and how it's not the same as love for her family, or close friends, but it's still love. When I asked her "what about your telling me that the word "love" is reserved for close family and friends?", she said something about changing, and about how long we've known each other. I don't remember her exact words.

For a few years now she and I have both signed our emails "love." Sometimes she writes "with much love". She told me in a session that she loves me. I found that hard to believe. I'm still having trouble with accepting that it's okay for me to love her, and with her writing "much love".

I KNOW that the way she loves me is "therapy love", whatever that means. It's genuine, but not the same as loving someone in her personal life. I'm not sure how I feel about that. I feel weird to see the words "love" coming from her all the time now. It's almost like it's not meaningful anymore. Her expression of caring for me seems more acceptable. So, if your T says how much he or she cares, it may be "better" than love. That's for you Scarlet. Your T really, really cares, and caring is like love. it's the actions, not the words that count, anyway!!

musinglizzy, I don't know how your T could have been so mean. It sounds so painful every time you post about her.

I'm feeling better about everything. It sort of makes sense. I guess I don't understand why she just won't say the word if it is love she feels. But I guess the point is that love is just a word. The feelings are more important. That makes sense. I'm really happy she cares about me. She's never said it like that. She used to only say "I care". But I always wondered did she care about me or the situation. Now I know she cares about me.

I'm happy I asked her. Even though it didn't turn out how I hoped it would go, at least I know now how she feels about me.

My T says the same thing when I tell her she's going to hate me or I ask if she hates me. She tends to answer questions exactly how I word the question.

I don't expect my T to care about me like she cares about her family or friends. I don't want her to be attached to me like I am to her. I know she means more to me than I do to her. But that's okay. I'm dependent on her. My cirlce of people is really small, so I care more about the ones who are there than say if I had a ton of people in my circle. My T says it's because of all the abandonment mixed in with me being shy and "picky" about who I let in. My T doesn't need me. She has her own supports. But she wants to be a support for me. I think that's pretty special. I don't think I'd be a good enough friend to her if I could. But I get to have her in my life. And she cares! And sge said she won't abandon me...in those words! How can I ask for anything more from her? I love her, and I accept her boundaries.

My former therapist once said, “I have high regards for you,” i.e. I care about you, I respect you, I’m fond of you, etc. I didn’t know what my feelings were for her at the time. I just felt a need to cling to her like a suckling infant or clingy child holding on for dear life. I was not in an adult awareness when she said this, so I challenged her as to what it meant. I asked her if she was talking about the ‘L’ word. She said no, "I reserve love for friends and family only. I do not love my clients and I cannot love them." The little girl stood up to her and said well you'll never hear me say those words to you. Those words grew me up quickly at that moment and challenged her on the absurdity of her statement. How is that done? How do you stop it over time? (This is a strictly platonic love we were speaking on.) It sounds like some of the “therapy speak” people discuss on forums that therapists learn in school and workshops. She agreed to think about it and get back to me.

She spoke to friends and therapists whose council she trusted and respected. When she posed the question to most, they all felt that she was a therapist that felt love for her clients, some more than others. More importantly, she learned that it was okay to tell a client, “I love you,” if and when it came up or if she felt there was therapeutic value in her voicing it first (only if she truly felt love for that client). That day, she told me she loved me. I realized my feelings for her had a label too; I loved her.

Over time, my love for her grew into an adult love like I have for friends. My ex-therapist and I have been friends now for four years and the first year was a transition for us. She was aware that I (maybe her too) needed time to transition our professional relationship to a more comfortable relationship. She was patient with me and the now our relationship looks like all my other close relationships. The difference is that she has been exposed to my core (all my secrets). Yet, has never used the knowledge gained in intensive therapy with her to claim power over me when I was a client and especially now as a good friend. I share secrets with some friends, but no other friend has all of them.

Like clients, (some) therapist also change and adapt to external or internal forces of their environment. I think there are certain clients that provide that spark or challenge. I understand and accept that some therapist will never say the words I love you, and only show it. That's okay, but, I don't believe that it is a mistake to for a therapist to change direction if that is what the heart and therapeutic environment have produced. It can provide a boost to healing, yet for some cause confusion. Unfortunately, not lessons in life are linear.

It is hard sometimes to hear that a therapist is to stay static while verbally coaching the client through pretzel-like maneuvers that many times makes no sense whatsoever or makes it is hard to progress through life’s challenges. I was at the eyeglass shop the other day and watched them bend and twist my new eye frame so I could get a better view of the world. It reminded me of the therapy frame so often spoken about and I felt grateful for having had an ex-therapist and standby therapist that had/has a flexible therapeutic frame. This is not for everyone. I do not want or need it from my standby therapist. I do have high regard for her and care about her. I understand it now, but for me, it is the same as what my ex-therapist first said to me: it is not the same as love for me. That is okay.

This morning I emailed l my former therapist and include the response below. These last few years has me trying to meet deadlines for the New Year. Therapy has not cured me of my procrastination, so that little girl in me comes out wanting to make contact, so, I reach out to her. A primitive desire to be acknowledged and to be reassured. I don’t 'need' the reassurance, but it sure helps me get moving to meet deadlines. Most importantly, I have learned it is okay and that she someone will respond in a loving and caring way.

1st email

Me: “Hi FM,

It’s that time of year. I doing adult stuff, but the little kid needs to tell you, “I wuv you.” I seem to write this same email towards the end of each year. Why? Who knows. Maybe, after the New Year you can take a stab at why it always comes up at the end of the year (at least for the last 5 year.), then maybe it will go away.

Wuv you,
AesB”

2nd email

Me: “..I doing adult stuff… can we say let’s hear it for a Freudian slip? Lol.”

Therapist Response:

“I love you too. So, you can tell the little kid that we both love her
and she's okay - you will keep her safe. You are the adult, and you
now can be the adult.

Love,
FM”

*These exchanges never have an effect on the future interactions between us.

My T and I have worked together for many years. A few years ago I asked her if she loved me and she said, "Don't you know?" I felt self-conscious afterward.

This is interesting... I never thought that what I felt for my therapists was anywhere close to love but I did like one of them very much. It was probably most comparable to what I often experience in other professional collaborations and work relationships with compatible partners. I would actually find it mildly disturbing if a T told me that they loved me and would much prefer to hear that they found me interesting or had respect for me, both of which I did hear from them without asking. They also told me somewhere mid-therapy that they thought I was easy to like... probably not at the end at least for one of them

I think that love can be a very obscure word, it clearly means many different thing to people. I personally get why Ts would not say it to clients - I also don't say it to my work collaborators or students, and for me the relationship with a T is more comparable to those than the personal ones with friends and family. I don't even like when friends use it too lightly and generally as I don't do that either, when I say it I do mean it and usually it is not very transient.

I am glad that you find it useful to address these kinds of "difficult" questions in therapy, Scarlet. I think it's not an easy thing to handle for a therapist because there can be all sorts of interpretations and possible subsequent demands, and it's not easy to maintain.

I'm really glad that her call helped, and that it's feeling a little bit more OK!

Re: Saying the word. I wonder if her definition of love is quite different than yours? For you, love is caring deeply and being willing to make sacrifices, and under that definition, she loves you. But, what if her definition is something like - "Someone I'm willing to quit my job to nurse back to health if they were seriously injured/ill"? I'm obviously just making that up, but it sort of makes sense, doesn't it, that that's something she do for her spouse and kids, but wouldn't be able to do for a client, or really even a close friend?

It's a sticky word, I think, and maybe everyone has their own take on what's included under it.

I still think it was brave of you to ask!

I feel the same about my therapist not using the word love but talking around it. I do think he loves me most of the time. He wouldn't have stuck with me thru this roller-coaster thru hell the past 7 years. He says I care about you very much. Maybe I'm lying to myself to feel better about it. My former t abused and exploited me with his "love". So I think my current T is hesitant to even say it. However the things he's done for me speak the volumes of the word that he won't say

However one time he did say I am lovable... A "lovable pain in the ***" =]

From what I understand, no topic is off limits to talk about. Both my T and I have a right to our boundaries about personal stuff, but the general topics are always allowed. My T could have chosen not to answer. Honestly, I expected her not to answer. She had ample amount of time to think of how she wanted to answer and to think about my reaction. So I don't think it was that hard for her. Maybe a little because I'm sure she didn't want to hurt my feelings.

Love that- so charming and affectionate, striking the right note

I think I'll ask her what her definition of love entails.

I agree that there's different levels of sacrifice. For me, the higher the level of sacrifice, the more you love a person. I'd be willing to sacrifice more for my H than I would for my T....but I'd sacrifice more for my T than I would my mom. I think that shows how much I love them.

I also been thinking about my definition, and there's more. I think love includes respect, unconditional acceptance, a need, and a deep connection. I think we have feelings about people that sometimes we can't help (positive and negative). But with love, we choose to love a person: you choose to accept them for the good and bad, you choose to make sacrifices.

During one session, my therapist and I were talking about my relationships to others and how it seems like I can't form lasting friendships. He said something to the effect of "I can't see that you're unlovable......unlikable".

I've pondered over what this seemingly Freudian slip actually meant. I'd like to think that, at the very least, he doesn't think I'm unlovable, which I guess is good enough for me, but that maybe he felt uncomfortable using that word. Funnily, if he hadn't paused and then changed the word, I probably wouldn't have even registered it's use.