[thesnowqueen]

Has anyone had their T use hypnotic techniques to remember their childhood or infancy?

[scorpiosis37]

No, I have not tried this myself. I would be weary of it though because of the high risk of creating false memories. It's neurologically impossible to recall one's infancy, so I would say that's off the table. As for childhood memories, there's no credible scientific evidence to support the idea that hypnosis will help recall memories. I do, however, think it is possible to remember things organically during therapy when our defenses are no longer up or something triggers a memory. I'd be careful about going under hypnosis though because even a well-intentioned therapist could inadvertently give "suggestions" that create false memories. It happened to my cousin. She tried it because her therapist suspected it despite zero history of any abuse. Suddenly, she "remembered" that her brother abused her-- but the memories were categorically impossible. Her brother was literally out of the country (serving in the Nazy) when she said it happened, and she was living in a different house than she claimed it happened in. Now, after tearing the whole family apart, she recognizes that it never happened and feels manipulated by her therapist.

[mostlylurking]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

I do, however, think it is possible to remember things organically during therapy when our defenses are no longer up or something triggers a memory. I'd be careful about going under hypnosis though because even a well-intentioned therapist could inadvertently give "suggestions" that create false memories.

I think hypnosis can be used to put someone into a state of deep relaxation so that defenses would be dropped, leading to memories coming forward. But I also think it's a good point that you'd want to go to someone experienced with hypnosis who would speak carefully and not be suggestive of any particular sort of memories.

I'm not sure that it's true that it's neurologically impossible to recall one's infancy. I can think of exceptions to that rule, but obviously the vast majority of us can't recall anything from that age. I suspect it might be an area of controversy.

Several decades ago, and it lead to nothing good, false memories. MY former therapist had a judgement against her for over a million dollars.

I never did put to0 much stock in what was supposedly uncovered. I talked about the hypnosis in therapy 16 years later with a different therapist and she believed the memories were false and brought on by my previous therapist. I definitely agree.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

I'm not sure that it's true that it's neurologically impossible to recall one's infancy. I can think of exceptions to that rule, but obviously the vast majority of us can't recall anything from that age. I suspect it might be an area of controversy.

Infants are incapable of forming and storing memories because they do not have language. The way our brains store memories is by using language to process and encode them. (It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it). I'm not a neurologist, but I have a PhD in a related field and this bears on a paper I wrote a couple of years ago. I know there are plenty of Ts who use hypnosis in this way, but the published research on it pretty heavily stacked against the idea that this produces real memories.

[growlycat]

The ts I have seen will absolutely NOT use this to uncover memories. As scrorpiosis said, it has a high likelihood of creating false memories.

Two of my ts have used hypnosis for relaxation and to wear away at phobias but both ts would never us it for recovering memories as it is highly unreliable .

[thesnowqueen]

Thank you so much for these answers. I know memory is generally encoded linguistically but I'm wondering if lasting impressions may be stored in other ways.

In any case I do think the risk may be too high. Even if the therapist is not asking leading questions I think there are probably ways for false memories to occur.

I don't think that the formation of every memory requires language, at all - more the opposite actually, we learn language in the first place via associations between words and experiences. Most emotional memories do not - they are based on environmental cues, impressions and events. Infants also recognize their caregivers and others that they encounter repeatedly before they learn to interact using language. People can have preverbal memories, including about interactions with the external world. I think that the lack of extensive memories from early life is more because the brain and its memory processes were not developed sufficiently yet and many fragments are "overwritten" later.

As for hypnosis, I don't know... I am not sure I believe it is more than a form of relaxation and meditative state. But I do believe that seemingly forgotten memories can surface in such a state, just like in the transition between sleep and wakefulness. And if the dreams during sleep can feel so realistic, I am not surprised that many of the hypnotic fantasies can also be mixtures of real and imaginary. I don't think it's a good way to retrieve memories though, way too unreliable. Perhaps visiting places that remind us of the past is better - exactly because the environmental cues can bring up buried memory fragments. I think the idea behind experiencing transference is also similar: something vaguely reminds us of something/someone else, and then we are flooded with feelings and reactions.

[mostlylurking]

I'm curious about memories in infancy, because my earliest memories (age 3-4?) are still images, which it seems like an infant could also remember. There's no narrative or structure to these earliest memories, so not much need for language; it's just a visual image. Similarly when a smell evokes certain feelings, it seems quite amorphous to me and not requiring language. Also, how do other animals and in particular primates form memories, if language is key? I don't mean to argue, I am truly just curious and thinking out loud here. Rats, for instance, form fairly complex memories of the behavior of other rats (e.g., whether other rats are reciprocating gifts and sharing resources in a fair way).

Also of interest, in some people with dissociative identity disorder, where divisions in the consciousness are made in order to compartmentalize experiences of abuse, memories held by alters who are infants can be accessed by older people in the system. These are definitely memories from infancy, but due to the division in consciousness perhaps the memories were not overwritten as would typically happen for most of us.

[thesnowqueen]

I have CPTSD and so my flashbacks are all emotional and without narrative or sensory input - so also wondering!

Originally Posted by thesnowqueen

I have CPTSD and so my flashbacks are all emotional and without narrative or sensory input - so also wondering!

Same here. I know some of mine are infantile memories.

Never worked on memories in hypnosis and would't want to. (The few I have now are horrible enough.)

I'm curious about memories in infancy, because my earliest memories (age 3-4?) are still images, which it seems like an infant could also remember.

I don't consider 3-4 infant. I know others who had visual images from this young. I was in school at 4, and have a couple of visual memories. If I was old enough for school, I'd bet I was old enough to remember.

But the younger infant memories surfaced primarily as odd body movements and other experiences, triggered by therapy. Mine weren't visual but still encoded.
Also, it is said that smell produces the strongest memories.

[mostlylurking]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

I don't consider 3-4 infant. I know others who had visual images from this young. I was in school at 4, and have a couple of visual memories. If I was old enough for school, I'd bet I was old enough to remember.

I don't think of age 3 as infancy either, I just didn't say that very well. I just mean that if an early memory can be simply an image, that seems so uncomplicated that we could have similar memories from infancy hidden somewhere in our minds, though I'm not sure how one could retrieve them.

[scorpiosis37]

If anyone is interested in reading more about infantile memory and/or memory and hypnosis, these are some good sources:

Infantile amnesia: A neurogenic hypothesis

https://www.amazon.com/Nature-Early-...f+early+memory

https://primo.lib.umn.edu/primo-expl...=rank&offset=0

https://primo.lib.umn.edu/primo-expl...emory&offset=0

Wiley: Memory: A Guide for Professionals - Alan J. Parkin

Originally Posted by mostlylurking

I think hypnosis can be used to put someone into a state of deep relaxation so that defenses would be dropped, leading to memories coming forward. But I also think it's a good point that you'd want to go to someone experienced with hypnosis who would speak carefully and not be suggestive of any particular sort of memories.

I'm not sure that it's true that it's neurologically impossible to recall one's infancy. I can think of exceptions to that rule, but obviously the vast majority of us can't recall anything from that age. I suspect it might be an area of controversy.

I think there are 2 different types of memories being discussed here.

In the article Scorpiosis links, it states recall is not possible for declarative memories. Many of us who have CPTSD talk about body or sensory memories. I don't know of anyone who has had recall of infant memories experienced like 'pictures' as we do when we think back to times when we were older. These types of memories, body or sensory memories are not impossible--they are held in the body and not experienced like traditional memories. Anyone who has experienced these trauma flashbacks knows they are in fact possible; and very real.

[satsuma]

I have memories from being a baby, and from being age 2.
I did talk very early, I don't know if that is linked to having very early memories.
The things I remember are events, like a little video clip (not specially significant to adults I suspect but they must have been significant to me at the time).

[thesnowqueen]

Scorpiosis, thanks for the sources. And thanks to everyone for sharing thoughts and experiences. I'v been working through one of Peter Walker's books on CPTSD and according to him it is necessary to feel anger in order to begin dealing better with emotional flashbacks. However I have almost no memories from before five. I may as well not have existed before I was two. At that age we moved to a new house and I have no feeling of having been around before then!

However something triggered my memory of some teenage stuff. I was excluded and ignored. The #MeToo campaign made me realise how exceptional it is to have never been sexually harassed. From reading reports from others who are sure of their objective physical 'ugliness' I realised this was the most likely reason. I don't think sexual harassment IS a response to beauty but I think extreme ugliness could be a protective factor.

However there is no way to feel angry about many of the consequences of this unattractiveness, though I think those experiences may have been traumatic. Or to put it differently, I feel anger, but only at myself.

Given this I actually think any regression would be dangerous because it would probably be easier to blame my parents than my own looks �� My mother was unquestionably cruel on various occasions - and prone to narcissistic rages - but I am doubting that the damage was primarily from this.

[thesnowqueen]

Perhaps a sense of self would have made dealing with pre-adolescent and adolescent stuff easier, and consistent mirroring would have helped with that - but still that would not be the primary source of trauma.

[nikon]

i would rather think that "extreme ugliness" would draw cruelty from others, which would just result in assault again. not that it would be an active thing of an "ugly" person to prompt any ridicule, but people tend to pick on others who look or seem different from the norm. people pick on those who seem weaker or on the fringes of society, and "extreme ugliness" would probably be seen as putting someone on the fringes of society.