[peaches100]

PART 3

She wanted to know what the blocks were that prevented me from saying what I mean in my emails. I said for one thing, “I hate to ask you to say you care about me because how will I know if you mean it, or if you are just saying it because I asked you to? I don’t want you to say something you don’t’ mean.” She said she didn’t think that would happen, that it is very unlikely she would say something she doesn’t mean.

I told her the second block about asking for what I need is the sheer embarrassment. When I need outside support, it is usually because something triggered me and I’m dissociative. At those times, the things I need to tell her or ask her feel life-threateningly urgent. But when I type it, it looks and sounds stupid! I feel embarrassed and ridiculous.

So there ensues a battle of the wills between a part of me that needs to express something and another part of me that thinks it is inappropriate, wrong, or dumb. I keep typing what I need to say or ask, but then I keep editing it again and again to make it sound the way I think it “should” sound or what I think is “appropriate.” Sometimes, my point gets lost as I get sidetracked and/or over-explain details, or hint at what I want to say, rather than saying it.

My t then told me, “Sometimes, it is hard for me to know what you are asking me for. I try to understand it. Sometimes I can tell. But sometimes I get it wrong.” She also told me, “I think part of the problem is also that I can’t always tell what part of you the email message is coming from…your adult self or a dissociated younger part. I try my best to understand what you’re saying and what you need, but sometimes, I get it wrong.

I told her, “Well, I know I don’t make it easy for you because I don’t like to allow myself to send any messages that sound stupid or childish. You know that on the rare occasion it happens, I always follow it up with another message saying, “PLEASE IGNORE PREVIOUS MESSAGE” because I feel totally ashamed.

At that point, it kind of hit me that we both have contributed to this email problem. I kind of realized at that point that both of us had contributed to this ongoing problem with email.

Then we reviewed together what we had decided about email contact and support between sessions. She had me write it down and asked me to send it to her (I think to make sure we are on the same page). When I left, she thanked me for not giving up on her, and I thanked her for not giving up on me.

[rainbow8]

Peaches, it sounds like you and T have come to a better understanding of your needs regarding outside contact, and how she has trouble knowing what you want and need sometimes. I hope your therapy will go more smoothly now!

I want to ask you about two things that sort of bother me, after reading these threads.

One: when you talked about seeing another T, your T immediately jumped to assuming you were going to stop seeing her. What happened to her suggestion for you to see an SE therapist for a while? She doesn't seem to present that as a possibility at all now. It's like she is saying "choose me, or someone else". What happened to the idea of getting a consultation? Consider seeing the T you contacted if she responds to you. It's not about terminating with your T; it's getting another opinion.

I also don't understand her fear of the other T crossing boundaries, not you. She's underestimating another T's competence, or at least that's my impression.

The other question is: now that you settled the email problem, are you going to go back to doing trauma work, or do you still plan to stick with non triggering subjects?

I know your T cares a great deal for you and you don't want to leave her. But that was an emotional reaction you had. I just want you to be sure it's also your rational decision. If so, great!! I applaud you for being so honest with your T! That was great!

[Victoria'smom]

I'm glad you were able to work it out.

[AllHeart]

Originally Posted by peaches100

My t then told me, “Sometimes, it is hard for me to know what you are asking me for. I try to understand it. Sometimes I can tell. But sometimes I get it wrong.”

What stops her from asking for clarification?

Originally Posted by peaches100

She also told me, “I think part of the problem is also that I can’t always tell what part of you the email message is coming from…your adult self or a dissociated younger part. I try my best to understand what you’re saying and what you need, but sometimes, I get it wrong.

Why the need to put emphasis on what part of you your email came from? Again, if she can't understand what you are saying, why doesn't she simply ask for clarification? Maybe in doing that would have saved the two of you a lot of email grief over the years??

Glad you are happy with the outcome.

[ruh roh]

Allheart, I don't know what peaches therapist needs, but my therapist will respond differently depending on who's emailing and it makes things go smoother--fewer misunderstandings--but she can usually tell who is emailing without being told. Peaches, I am surprised she doesn't know you better after all these years.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

What stops her from asking for clarification?

Why the need to put emphasis on what part of you your email came from? Again, if she can't understand what you are saying, why doesn't she simply ask for clarification? Maybe in doing that would have saved the two of you a lot of email grief over the years??

Glad you are happy with the outcome.

This is what I thought while reading OP. Whenever there is a confusion about what is being communicated, the simplest and the most logical thing is just to ask for clarification.

In therapy such simple thing would lead to further exploration of what the client's issue is and to working through it. Trying to do the mind reading is very counter-productive in therapy and is an antithesis to healthy communications, which is something therapists are supposed to know better than anyone else.

That said, I hope this new arrangement will make things easier for you Peaches.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Peaches, it sounds like you and T have come to a better understanding of your needs regarding outside contact, and how she has trouble knowing what you want and need sometimes. I hope your therapy will go more smoothly now!

I want to ask you about two things that sort of bother me, after reading these threads.

One: when you talked about seeing another T, your T immediately jumped to assuming you were going to stop seeing her. What happened to her suggestion for you to see an SE therapist for a while? She doesn't seem to present that as a possibility at all now. It's like she is saying "choose me, or someone else". What happened to the idea of getting a consultation? Consider seeing the T you contacted if she responds to you. It's not about terminating with your T; it's getting another opinion.

I also don't understand her fear of the other T crossing boundaries, not you. She's underestimating another T's competence, or at least that's my impression.

The other question is: now that you settled the email problem, are you going to go back to doing trauma work, or do you still plan to stick with non triggering subjects?

I know your T cares a great deal for you and you don't want to leave her. But that was an emotional reaction you had. I just want you to be sure it's also your rational decision. If so, great!! I applaud you for being so honest with your T! That was great!

Hi Rainbow,

Although my t suggested in the past that I needed SE training, she says we are already doing some of it now. I think she has taken training in it now.

She said she was OK with me getting a consultation if I want one. So far, the t I emailed has not contacted me back. I notice that she gives a lot of presentations around the country (and beyond). Based on these things, I have a feeling that she would not be any more available between sessions as my current t is - maybe even less.

As far as doing the part work again, I don't know. I think it's a very important part of my recovery because most of my problems/issues are a result of having dissociative parts of my personality that get activated when something triggers me. That's my biggest problem.

On the other hand, based on how difficult it continues to be for me to keep my distress contained at a level that I can manage without my t's help, I need to have better coping skills that are internalized and that I can remember and call upon when I have dissociative reactions.

For now, I think I would still like to focus on reviewing the chapters in the DBT book we covered awhile back, and finish the chapters we didn't do. If something gets stirred up while we're working in the book (which my t says will most likely happen), I will have to decide then whether I want to stop and work with my t on the dissociative reaction I'm having at that moment, or if I will try to just step back away from it and reground before continuing on in the book.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by AllHeart

What stops her from asking for clarification?

Why the need to put emphasis on what part of you your email came from? Again, if she can't understand what you are saying, why doesn't she simply ask for clarification? Maybe in doing that would have saved the two of you a lot of email grief over the years??

Glad you are happy with the outcome.

Hi Allheart,

The reason my t needs to emphasize (or correctly interpret) what part of me is emailing her is because if I'm in my normal adult mind at the time I send her a message, I am generally just providing her with information I want her to know, or I am asking for clarification about something. Often times, I don't need her to respond at all.

On the other hand, if I'm in a dissociative state when I email her, I may feel anxious, scared, little, fuzzy thinking, feel like I'm in danger, having weird panicked separation feelings, etc. In those moments, I definitely need something different from her. I may need her to remind me how to ground myself. I may need her to remind me that even though my body and mind are telling me that I am in dire need or danger, I am just fine. I am an adult now. I am safe. Nothing bad is happening. I'm not going crazy. Or I might just need her to reassure me that she got my message, that she cares about me, and that we can talk about whatever is happening for me when I see her at my next session.

If my t doesn't discern "who" is emailing her and replies in a way that isn't congruent with what's happening with me and what I need, it can be a bad situation. If I've sent her a message while in my adult mind and she misinterprets it as a dissociative child part and responds with more support than I need, it's not big deal. It's when a dissociative part of me emails for support and she responds as though I'm in my normal adult frame of mind that serious ruptures occur.

For example, I'm at work and everything is going fine. Then something happens to trigger a dissociation. It could be a flashback or a memory sparked by something somebody has said. Often, I don't know what the trigger is. But all of a sudden, I start feeling dread or anxiety. My heart starts pounding and I'm fighting back tears for no reason that I know of. Things start to feel unreal. I might feel like I'm going crazy. If I email my t and tell her how I am feeling, and she replies 6 hours later or the next day with something like, "I got your message. Thanks for letting me know," it is not helpful and will probably trigger me even more because I needed help in the moment.

You brought up a good point. If my t is unsure what part of me is attempting to connect with her or obtain support, she should ask and not assume. She has told me countless times not to mindread. She should also not make assumptions, especially since she isn't always very good at discernment/insight in those situations. I can also try to be more clear about what I need from her. It's just hard to do when I am in a triggered or dissociative state. I don't always know what I need or how to ask for it. I'm just kind of freaking out inside and know I need help!

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

Allheart, I don't know what peaches therapist needs, but my therapist will respond differently depending on who's emailing and it makes things go smoother--fewer misunderstandings--but she can usually tell who is emailing without being told. Peaches, I am surprised she doesn't know you better after all these years.

Hi ruh roh,

I've been surprised too that my t still has trouble figuring out what part of me is emailing her. She is much better at knowing which part of me is present when I am in my session and face to face with her. She can usually also tell if she hears my voice on the phone. At those times, she is very perceptive and picks up on it easily, even when I don't realize that I've switched. But in email, she just doesn't pick up on the nuances I guess. She can't see my facial expression or tone of voice. In email, all she has to go on is the words. Sometimes, based on how the message is written, she can tell what mind state I am in, but not always.

I may just have to bite the bullet and learn how to express things more in session, and if I need help between sessions, call her rather than email. I just have a real reluctance to calling (my own stuff).

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

This is what I thought while reading OP. Whenever there is a confusion about what is being communicated, the simplest and the most logical thing is just to ask for clarification.

In therapy such simple thing would lead to further exploration of what the client's issue is and to working through it. Trying to do the mind reading is very counter-productive in therapy and is an antithesis to healthy communications, which is something therapists are supposed to know better than anyone else.

That said, I hope this new arrangement will make things easier for you Peaches.

Hi Ididitmyway,

Yes, I agree with you. My t needs to make an effort to clarify things herself if she is not sure. She does it in session. But if I email and she is not certain what part of me is active and I don't make it clear what I need, then she should inquire rather than guess. I see no reason why she can't reply something like this, "It sounds like you're feeling scared and small. Is that right? How can I help?" or something similar. I'm going to tell her this.

[unaluna]

(((Peaches))) wow, ive never tried to contact my t (or probably anyone) from within that state. What used to trigger most often would be getting told a boss wanted to see me. I would pretty much turn into a two year old, feeling mortally ashamed. Another trigger would be a snail mail from my mother. When i was able to not open them until my next appointment with my t, then have him open them, i felt a LOT safer. Unfortunately, i was not seeing current t when i was still working, so i wonder now if some of my stuff ever got resolved.

[LonesomeTonight]

You said that when she responds to one of your adult e-mails as if it's one of your child parts, that doesn't bother you. Maybe it would be better if your T just goes with the assumption that it's one of your child parts? Another thought is, can you tell when it's your adult part? If so, you could say, "This is an e-mail from my adult part." And if you don't include that in an e-mail, let T know she should assume it's more likely coming from a child part. (Does that make sense?)

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by unaluna

(((Peaches))) wow, ive never tried to contact my t (or probably anyone) from within that state. What used to trigger most often would be getting told a boss wanted to see me. I would pretty much turn into a two year old, feeling mortally ashamed. Another trigger would be a snail mail from my mother. When i was able to not open them until my next appointment with my t, then have him open them, i felt a LOT safer. Unfortunately, i was not seeing current t when i was still working, so i wonder now if some of my stuff ever got resolved.

Hi Unaluna,

It's good that you were able to wait until your session to open the snail mail. What did you do when you got triggered by your boss wanting to see you?

When I dissociate into that mind state, I first try to apply coping skills if I have enough of my normal adult self present. If I am unable to get myself back to my normal adult state of mind, I will go into a restroom stall so nobody at work notices I'm having a problem. I'll go into a bathroom stall and practice breathing or just wait out the awful feelings. If that doesn't work and I can't transition back to feeling OK, that's when I usually email my t.

I want to emphasize that it's not very often that I email her in that state...maybe 1 time every 2 months or so. Otherwise, it's from my normal adult state. The important thing is that I get the help I need at the time it is happening, if I can't do so for myself. If that doesn't happen, it causes a second, much worse trigger, which is based on childhood experiences (being in crisis and parents not present or not willing to acknowledge/help). That's really what I've been talking about on all of my threads recently. Not email in general, but email when in a dissociated child state. A failure to connect in the moment when that happens results in a huge step backward in my therapy.

I find it interesting that you can actually email while you say you are so dissociated you are in a child state. I wouldn't have had that ability.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by LonesomeTonight

You said that when she responds to one of your adult e-mails as if it's one of your child parts, that doesn't bother you. Maybe it would be better if your T just goes with the assumption that it's one of your child parts? Another thought is, can you tell when it's your adult part? If so, you could say, "This is an e-mail from my adult part." And if you don't include that in an e-mail, let T know she should assume it's more likely coming from a child part. (Does that make sense?)

Hi Lonesometonight,

No, I don't always know when I am in a dissociated state, although sometimes I do. The more I pay attention to my body, the more I will know if I am. If I'm starting to feel panic or fighting off tears for no reason I am aware of, it's a good sign that something has triggered me and I'm beginning t dissociate.

What makes it hard is when my intellect and my awareness of my present circumstances are intact, but my body is reacting in odd ways that do not make sense. For example, I might know that I am at work and editing a report, but all of a sudden I feel small and terrified, like a little kid lost at an airport or something. It makes it hard to know if I am in my adult self/mind or not.

Your suggestion is a good one...to let t know in my email message which part of me is present. The problem is that I don't always know.

[peaches100]

Originally Posted by lolagrace

I find it interesting that you can actually email while you say you are so dissociated you are in a child state. I wouldn't have had that ability.

Hi Lonesometonight and Lolagrace,

I think there must be some co-consciousness there in order to email while in a dissociated state. Usually, there are two parts of me present at the same time...one part that feels young and is in distress and attempting to contact my t...and another part that sees such needs as shameful and attempts to restrain the young part from sending the email message. There will usually be a lot of rewriting and revising of the email, as each part (side of my mind or whatever) try to control what gets typed and sent to my t. It's common for me to lose track of time while this is happening. One time, I realized by the time I finally was able to hit SEND, I had spent 5 hours rewriting and revising the same email message. When I realize what time it is, I have often felt shocked and realized there must be something really wrong with me.

[peaches100]

PS - Also, on the rare occasion that the child part of me manages to win out over the restraining part of me and emails my t, the restraining part will almost immediately send a followup message asking my to ignore the previous message and denying whatever was said in it.

One important thing to realize is that when I am not dissociated (such as now), I am able to look back and recognize that, yes, different parts of me were active at those different times. HOWEVER, at the time it actually is happening, I don't always pick up on the fact that two different dissociated parts of me are active. What it will feel like to me, in that moment, is that I just intermittently keep feeling opposite ways.

What I mean is, I'll get triggered and think, "Oh, no, what's happening? I'm freaking out. I need to contact my t." I might start typing an email message and get about 2 or 3 sentences in. Then, another part of my mind says, "No, no, no! You can't do that! You shouldn't bother her with something as dumb as this." So I erase it. But then another thought, "I don't care if i'ts dumb It's the way I feel. I need to say it." So again, I start typing the message. But soon, it's back to "Don't say that! Do you realize how immature that sounds? You sound like a whiny little baby! I need to reword it." So, more revising. Then, "No! That's not what I meant! You're changing my words! You're not letting me say what I need to." and on and on...

If I can get awareness enough, in the moment, to realize that two different mind states are simultaneously active and it has me locked in a time warp or whatever, then maybe I could tell my t this when I sent the email message. But more often than not, I am too caught up in the conflicting back-and-forth thoughts to be aware of anything else. I can't step back enough to realize that I'm in the middle of a dissociative episode. I don't notice how much time has passed by. All I know at the time is that I feel THIS way, but then I feel THAT way, but then THIS way, etc. Whichever way is active at that moment feels like ME and my REAL feelings. But they just keep changing back and forth until one mindset wins out over the other.

This is very hard to explain. I should probably be posting this in the Dissociative Disorders forum.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Hi Unaluna,

It's good that you were able to wait until your session to open the snail mail. What did you do when you got triggered by your boss wanting to see you?

There wasnt any progress being made in my life, therapy or otherwise. That didnt start happening until the last few years.

When i got triggered by my boss, i would feel AWFUL, like i was folded over into the fetal position, face flushed, feeling empty, hollow, raw? inside. I would be obsessed until the meeting took place, unable to do anything but the most menial tasks. I never talked to anyone about it while it was going on. There was a LOT of shame, but i dont know if i recognized it as such.