[rainbow8]

I have felt overwhelmed and depressed lately, and tried to tell T all of the emotional stresses and physical pain I've been having. Regarding my "to do list" that overwhelms me, she said "that's life." She ignored what I said about feeling like I want to die. She did, however, focus on some incidents that hurt me and made me feel sad. Regarding physical pain, she had me visualize a beautiful place and then "go back to my body" several times. I'm not sure if that helped or not.

I emailed her after the session and asked why she didn't take me seriously like she didn't hear me or wanted to ignore me. I'll be curious as to her answer. I know she knows I'd never do anything, but I still want to be validated. I don't want to die, but my life is getting more difficult and she didn't seem to validate my feelings.

On another note ( I don't want to start 2 threads), I told her I'm afraid to fully connect with her because of losing her or her abandoning me. She responded that she will never purposely leave me without giving me a lot of warning and discussions first. That's if she moves or retires. Of course she said she has no control if she dies.

She didn't mention emailing this time, but in the past she's said we could still email occasionally if I quit or if she moves or retires. So, probably due to my not feeling so well, I wrote: "You can't set up this attachment/connection and then disappear. We clients fall for it, get hooked, and then get discarded more often than not." I wonder what she will say to that.

I got up at 4:30 this morning though I got 7 hours of sleep. This getting up early every day is wrecking havoc with my health. I'm anxious about a lot of stuff. It's a vicious cycle and T isn't helping. I don't take meds and don't want to.

[malika138]

I'm sorry you aren't being heard by your T. I don't have any wise words of wisdom but I wanted to let you know that you are being heard on this forum.

I'm sorry you didn't feel heard by your t. I felt like my t wasn't hearing me last week although on a much different topic, it still doesn't feel good. Hoping she comes back with a caring, helpful response to your email.

[here today]

Hi rainbow,

I have wanted for it all to be over for more than 15 years.

I think, for me, a lot has to do with the fact that because of the early trauma I did not develop life skills and the ability, or luck, to make a life that I loved and can be happy in, except for the marriage with my late husband.

Even with the best, most effective "attachment" therapy and a good "attachment" to a therapist, that can't make up for a lifetime of "unhealthy" ways of coping, habits, and lack of "healthy", supportive relationships and "community".

Maybe that's one of those things I'm supposed to "grieve"? And then what? I'm 70 years old. Still don't have those skills or family or community.

But, having said that, I'm not dead yet and I'm continuing to try to find ways to develop/improve some skills and no one knows the future.

I think it is critical that therapists acknowledge suicidal thoughts/ideation. Not in a "freak out, put you in the hospital" way, but calmly, with an eye towards how to deal with them. The thoughts are there - assigning a negative value to them isn't helpful and adds to the shame.

I suffered from constant suicide ideation for years. What my former therapist did was not only acknowledge and validate the feelings, he also suggested that instead of fighting them, I consider how I would live my life if they never went away. Interestingly, as I began to "radically accept" the feelings, they began to lessen and are now completely gone (for over a year). But is was a long process...and involved a lot of other work.

I think questioning your therapist on your perception of her ignoring or invalidating your thoughts and feelings is a good idea.

Chronic pain and insomnia are also very specific issues that should not be ignored. I do think that meditation and mindfulness can be helpful - but it's also important to not blame yourself if they don't work. The whole "you're not trying hard enough" or "if you REALLY wanted to change..." mindset is shaming and unhelpful.

[SalingerEsme]

Rainbow, so sorry you are hurting so much. I don't know if all T's can empathize with anguish if they themselves are not CPTSD/depression/ anxiety/etc survivors or have some very deep grieving / complexity in their real experiences. That is not to say they cannot treat it skillfully, but do they get it, how crushing it feels? " that's life" is dismissive and not very kind. I do think suicide is a very nerve-wracking topic for them, and she has to use her judgement if she takes you seriously, then she has to hospitalize you or send police checks etc, and she might be worried that would harm your trust?

[wheeler]

Rainbow, I've been thinking about this all morning. What could your T do for you to feel that she takes you seriously?

[peaches100]

Rainbow,

I'm sorry your t didn't take your comment seriously. It's a good idea that you let her know how you feel. I will be interested to hear her response.

I empathize with how you feel...the constant struggles, pain, and stress that is part of living every day. It's even hard for people without mental and emotional health issues to cope. For us, it is even harder.

I don't particularly like the phrase, "That's just life." It sounds like minimizing or downplaying what you are feeling...kind of like saying, "What you are going through isn't a big deal, it's just the way things are for everybody." Your t probably didn't mean it that way though. I hope she responds in a way that feels more validating to you.

[hopealwayz]

I understand how you feel. I feel the exact same way. I tried to explain to my T how much I was suffering and I told him that I just want to die. He didn't say anything about it.

[Teddy Bear]

I'm sorry you feel that you want to die. What we're you hoping your t would say?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by malika138

I'm sorry you aren't being heard by your T. I don't have any wise words of wisdom but I wanted to let you know that you are being heard on this forum.

I appreciate that a lot, malika. Thank you!

Originally Posted by ArtieSwimsOn

I'm sorry you didn't feel heard by your t. I felt like my t wasn't hearing me last week although on a much different topic, it still doesn't feel good. Hoping she comes back with a caring, helpful response to your email.

Thanks, Artie. I'm sorry you didn't feel heard, either. I'll see what my T says when I talk to her at 1 p.m. today.

Originally Posted by here today

Hi rainbow,

I have wanted for it all to be over for more than 15 years.

I think, for me, a lot has to do with the fact that because of the early trauma I did not develop life skills and the ability, or luck, to make a life that I loved and can be happy in, except for the marriage with my late husband.

Even with the best, most effective "attachment" therapy and a good "attachment" to a therapist, that can't make up for a lifetime of "unhealthy" ways of coping, habits, and lack of "healthy", supportive relationships and "community".

Maybe that's one of those things I'm supposed to "grieve"? And then what? I'm 70 years old. Still don't have those skills or family or community.

But, having said that, I'm not dead yet and I'm continuing to try to find ways to develop/improve some skills and no one knows the future.

I'm sorry, here today, that you have had so many years of unhappiness. I am almost as old as you, and that is causing a lot of my negativity. I did have support in my family and community, and have a lot to be grateful for, yet I feel hopeless and pessimistic. Yes, we can always learn new skills, and you're right. We're not dead yet!

Originally Posted by ByStarlight

I think it is critical that therapists acknowledge suicidal thoughts/ideation. Not in a "freak out, put you in the hospital" way, but calmly, with an eye towards how to deal with them. The thoughts are there - assigning a negative value to them isn't helpful and adds to the shame.

I suffered from constant suicide ideation for years. What my former therapist did was not only acknowledge and validate the feelings, he also suggested that instead of fighting them, I consider how I would live my life if they never went away. Interestingly, as I began to "radically accept" the feelings, they began to lessen and are now completely gone (for over a year). But is was a long process...and involved a lot of other work.

I think questioning your therapist on your perception of her ignoring or invalidating your thoughts and feelings is a good idea.

Chronic pain and insomnia are also very specific issues that should not be ignored. I do think that meditation and mindfulness can be helpful - but it's also important to not blame yourself if they don't work. The whole "you're not trying hard enough" or "if you REALLY wanted to change..." mindset is shaming and unhelpful.

Thank you, Starlight. I'm glad that radically accepting your feelings helped you! I think I have to accept the aging process and that "it is what it is". I do not really want to die; I am afraid of death and I have a lot to live for. It just doesn't seem worth it if I am in pain and can't do the things I used to do. There is too much on my "to do" list; in spite of helpful people in my life, I'm the one who has to deal with it all. I suffer from anxiety, which is why my T has always stressed meditation and mindfulness. When I get more sleep, I feel better. I tried antidepressants, but they didn't help and I hate meds in general.

Originally Posted by SalingerEsme

Rainbow, so sorry you are hurting so much. I don't know if all T's can empathize with anguish if they themselves are not CPTSD/depression/ anxiety/etc survivors or have some very deep grieving / complexity in their real experiences. That is not to say they cannot treat it skillfully, but do they get it, how crushing it feels? " that's life" is dismissive and not very kind. I do think suicide is a very nerve-wracking topic for them, and she has to use her judgement if she takes you seriously, then she has to hospitalize you or send police checks etc, and she might be worried that would harm your trust?

Thank you, SalingerEsme. I think my T should understand because she suffered some big losses in her life, and also had postpartum depression. I will tell her that her "that's life" felt dismissive when I talk to her on the phone today. I already wrote it in an email to her, and she apologized and offered to speak on the phone to me. T and I know I'd never act on my feelings; I'm actually very afraid of death and don't want to die. It's just that my life is getting more difficult, and I feel overwhelmed and anxious, and tired all the time.

Originally Posted by wheeler

Rainbow, I've been thinking about this all morning. What could your T do for you to feel that she takes you seriously?

Thank you, Wheeler. I wish my T had empathized with my feelings about my "to do" list and pain, instead of saying "that's life." She knows I'm not suicidal, and I know it, but sometimes I get very despondent. She did have me sit with the disappointment and sadness I felt about two incidents, but that wasn't enough. I didn't realize I felt like she dismissed what I said about wanting to die until after the session. Sometimes my T is too "Pollyanish". She always has a positive attitude and wants me to have one too.

Originally Posted by peaches100

Rainbow,

I'm sorry your t didn't take your comment seriously. It's a good idea that you let her know how you feel. I will be interested to hear her response.

I empathize with how you feel...the constant struggles, pain, and stress that is part of living every day. It's even hard for people without mental and emotional health issues to cope. For us, it is even harder.

I don't particularly like the phrase, "That's just life." It sounds like minimizing or downplaying what you are feeling...kind of like saying, "What you are going through isn't a big deal, it's just the way things are for everybody." Your t probably didn't mean it that way though. I hope she responds in a way that feels more validating to you.

Thanks, Peaches. I know you understand! I will talk on the phone with T, and tell her again that her phrase, "that's just life" felt dismissive. I already emailed it to her.

Originally Posted by hopealwayz

I understand how you feel. I feel the exact same way. I tried to explain to my T how much I was suffering and I told him that I just want to die. He didn't say anything about it.

Why would our Ts just let that statement go? I'm sorry that happened to you too.

Originally Posted by Teddy Bear

I'm sorry you feel that you want to die. What we're you hoping your t would say?

I'm not sure, but I wanted her to acknowledge it, not ignore me. She knows I'm afraid of death, and that I don't want to die, so maybe that's why she let it go. I think what felt worse was her comment "that's just life" when I told her about my "to do" list and how overwhelming life is for me now. She did acknowledge my sadness about some disappointments, and about my physical pain, but not about my feeling so despondent.

[Wonderfalls]

Once when I was in college I told the therapist there that I wanted to commit suicide and he answered "We all do."

[here today]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

. . .
I'm sorry, here today, that you have had so many years of unhappiness. I am almost as old as you, and that is causing a lot of my negativity. I did have support in my family and community, and have a lot to be grateful for, yet I feel hopeless and pessimistic. Yes, we can always learn new skills, and you're right. We're not dead yet!. . .

Thanks for your compassion, rainbow. It helps in the journey we're both on, going forward! :-)

[noneedtoknow]

Originally Posted by Wonderfalls

Once when I was in college I told the therapist there that I wanted to commit suicide and he answered "We all do."

ha ha-I love this. Rather cryptic, but ok. How did that strike you when you heard that? Just curious.

[Wonderfalls]

Certainly it's beyond dismissive but I only had to see him once to withdraw from the semester. He didn't care and I just wanted out. It actually sort of made me feel better in a way;there was somebody at least as unhappy as I was. It wasn't very long after I saw him, though, that I thought it was funny. Can't imagine what he would be like as a long term therapist.

[Amyjay]

There's a contradiction here, Rainbow. It upsets you that your T didn't take you seriously when you said you wanted to die, but in the thread you also say you don't really want to die. I would assume that your t knows you well enough to know that even though you said you want to die she is aware that you really don't.
So you know you don't really want to die, she knows you don't really want to die, but you wanted her to respond as though you wanted to die. She didn't so you naturally feel invalidated and "dismissed" because she your very real pain wasn't responded to as you had wished.
Your feelings are real and valid and I wonder if there is a different way to ask for the support you need from her?

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Wonderfalls

Once when I was in college I told the therapist there that I wanted to commit suicide and he answered "We all do."

I think that's a terrible thing to say though I guess it could be comforting if you look at it that way.

Originally Posted by here today

Thanks for your compassion, rainbow. It helps in the journey we're both on, going forward! :-)

Originally Posted by Amyjay

There's a contradiction here, Rainbow. It upsets you that your T didn't take you seriously when you said you wanted to die, but in the thread you also say you don't really want to die. I would assume that your t knows you well enough to know that even though you said you want to die she is aware that you really don't.
So you know you don't really want to die, she knows you don't really want to die, but you wanted her to respond as though you wanted to die. She didn't so you naturally feel invalidated and "dismissed" because she your very real pain wasn't responded to as you had wished.
Your feelings are real and valid and I wonder if there is a different way to ask for the support you need from her?

I don't want her to dismiss my dark feelings right now. It would be easier to die so I can't say I totally don't want to. I want her to hear me and not give me her standard answer of how well I'm doing! It may appear like I'm managing well, but I don't feel like I am. I want her to understand that!!!

[runlola72]

I understand how hurtful this is, and I'm sorry.

[rainbow8]

Thanks, Runlola. I appreciate your words.

I emailed T just now. I told her I'm sorry for being a pest, and told her what I'm most worried about. I wrote it would be easier if I just slipped away but I have responsibilities to my family so I can't.

I also told her it triggered me when she couldn't talk Thursday night because other people do that to me. I need to know the reason but no one is obligated to say, especially T. But " I'm out for the evening" or " I have commitments to others tonight" would have helped. What I'm left with in my mind is " I didn't want to spend 8 minutes of my free time talking to you." That's probably the real reason. I told her that but I didn't say how the phone call itself didn't help.

I wrote that I'm sorry I am such a pest this weekend I hope she doesn't hate me. Then wrote " I love you".

I don't care if she writes back. I don't feel well and I'm tired!

[rainbow8]

T wrote me back! She again didn't comment on my mentioning wanting to die. She said we need to figure out a way for me to get more sleep! She said she'd never hate me! I had written I'm such a pest for bothering her again and I don't want her to hate me! I'm going to have to tell her in person because she apparently still doesn't believe me that thoughts are going in that direction.