[stopdog]

Do the machinations of the therapist help you or enrage you or neither?
Things like stating the obvious, normalizing, mirroring, pretending to play stupid,
and so forth (really any time the therapist speaks - this is not an exhaustive list by any means). When they say things like they feel privileged or honored or they honor the process and so on.
Do they make you feel like the therapist is treating you like a half-witted moron or do they help you in some way?

[atisketatasket]

If I’m aware of them, they enrage me. I have been aware of the ones you mention above, plus general manipulation in the form of “apologies” when they get caught screwing up.

I mean, if you’re going to machinate, at least be good enough at it that the client doesn’t notice. There should be more acting classes in therapy school.

The only one I don’t find enraging is mirroring. It suggests they are at least trying, not just sitting there thinking about their plans for redecorating their living room.

[ReptileInYourHead]

Hey stopdog.
I’ve only seen one psychoanalyst here in Canada. She has helped me a great deal.
Her “machinations” may at times be transparent, but I trust that she has a reason for them.
Most of these techniques try to get you to see something you cannot, or do not wish to see, and therefore will be met with ‘resistance’.
Resistance comes in many forms, most imperceptible to the one manifesting them.
Judging by your other posts, you do not respect or like therapists. You may have been unlucky and have had poor ones or you have lost faith in the industry, or maybe it’s your resistance, maybe you are just not ready to open up?

[stopdog]

Please do not comment on how you think I should do therapy or anything at all about me and therapy- that is not the point of this thread. Ijust wondered about the question. What I do with a therapist and my lack of respect for them as individuals and as an industry really not your problem.
I genuinely want to know what others do about this.
If it cannot be kept to the topic, rather than speculation and judgment about me, I will ask that the thread be closed.

[growlycat]

I believe my therapist is genuine in his sappy emoting about the process. I think he really means it and so I try to suppress eye rolls.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

If I’m aware of them, they enrage me. I have been aware of the ones you mention above, plus general manipulation in the form of “apologies” when they get caught screwing up.

I mean, if you’re going to machinate, at least be good enough at it that the client doesn’t notice. There should be more acting classes in therapy school.

The only one I don’t find enraging is mirroring. It suggests they are at least trying, not just sitting there thinking about their plans for redecorating their living room.

I don't look at the woman enough for mirroring to bother me a lot. I find it pointless but if the woman did it at me - it failed because I never looked at her in the first place.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by growlycat

I believe my therapist is genuine in his sappy emoting about the process. I think he really means it and so I try to suppress eye rolls.

So it is the belief in his sincerity that keeps you from being enraged?

[AllHeart]

I find I get no such bs from my current t. Ex-t was the queen of machinations. So I would be enraged if my t behaved as such and would not tolerate it.

[RubyRae]

I really despise my T normalizing everything.It's very irritating.I would much rather he would say something like "yeah,that's really fu*ked up and abnormal".

It's very confusing to be very concerned about something and wanting help with it and he's acting like it's a very normal thing.

[healinginprogress]

They're beneficial to me for the most part. They're genuine from my T so they actually make me pretty happy. I know she does what she does with my best interests at heart, and she does what she does because she sees value in it. And after 2 years and seeing my own improvement she has my trust.

[stopdog]

My issue with normalizing is that I have no illusions that I am unique or special or that it is not the same for everyone. My issue with it is that I know that -but it doesn't matter at all to me and why I am upset or whatever about something. The whole ****ing rest of the world can do/feel/want X as well and it makes not one whit of difference to my position on it. I mean other than feeling dismissed and treated like an idiot by the therapist.

[Salmon77]

Things like stating the obvious, normalizing, mirroring, pretending to play stupid,
and so forth.

These don't bother me. They're tools to help me think about things differently or explore something more. They might work or not, but I wouldn't get angry about them. It would be like getting angry at a plumber for using a wrench.

Do they make you feel like the therapist is treating you like a half-witted moron

No. Just because you can see the wrench doesn't mean it can't help you.

[stopdog]

Would it make a difference if the therapist told you they did not know what they meant by such things? A plumber can tell you why a wrench is the correct tool to use on a certain type of fixture - did the therapist explain the point of the machination if you asked?

[annielovesbacon]

My T doesn't do it often, because she knows that when she does I don't "fall for it" or whatever you'd like to call it. I know when she's trying to lead me to an answer or some other therapisty thing. But like I said she rarely does those things. If she did them more often I'd go see someone else.

[nottrustin]

In general I find therapy and things they do beneficial. There are things they try that backfires and I tell them so and they change their approach. If II felt like they were useless, treating me like a moron, didn't care, or manipulative, frankly, I wouldn't go. My life is way to busy to waste on something that I had so much disdain for.

Standby has never done it, but my previous therapist would try it at times and I would call her out on it. She quickly learned to cut that crap out.

Sometimes hell is paved with better intentions.

[guilloche]

I notice my current T, the new one, doing stuff like this.

For example, she'll use a lot of reflections ("you sound disappointed"), and a lot of "how did that make you feel?".

I don't like it, because it doesn't feel genuine. When it doesn't feel genuine, it makes me feel *less* connected, not more. Like, we're not having an actual conversation and she's not actually listening - she's just dredging up stock therapist-phrases that don't feel like they move the conversation along (to me).

In fact, I've been thinking about the fact that sometimes she'll actually interrupt me to mirror something or ask how I feel. Which is incredibly frustrating. I'm not talking about jumping in when I pause - I think (I'll have to watch and check) that she actually stops me mid-thought/mid-sentence to ask "how did that make you feel" - which is so incredibly frustrating, b/c I don't get to finish my thought, and end up feeling more "unheard" and like I really don't matter.

My last T was much less like this... but he was so SLOW in responding, it drove me crazy. I'd say something, pause, and wait.... and wait... and wait... while he tried to think of what he wanted to say. I'd actually have to ask him, "Are you thinking about what to say? Because, I'm done talking now, and I'd really like you to respond." It was brutal. I don't know what on earth THAT was about.

[stopdog]

The list I gave was not meant to be exhaustive - I found any time the therapist talked - they thought they were doing something at the client- which would constitute a machination to me.

[here today]

I was too stupid to see the machinations. :-(. Maybe one reason therapy didn't work for me? Hmm...

[Salmon77]

I've never asked. I don't think I'd want to spend my session time on it.

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by stopdog

So it is the belief in his sincerity that keeps you from being enraged?

I would be enraged if he were purely manipulating me. Somehow it doesn’t seem the same when he genuinely buys his own maneuvers. However when he plays dumb to get me to verbalize something yes things like that tick me off. The difference is intent, at least to me

[Argonautomobile]

Beavers pulls all that **** - normalizing, stating the obvious, mirroring, stating the obvious, repeating what I say, stating the obvious...making Empathetic Face with empathetic noises...Pretty much in that order.

It's fine. He means well enough (or I believe he does - and that's good enough). This is what he was taught to do, right? Maybe he's not creative enough to do anything else. Sometimes I'm not creative enough to come up with something better, either.

He is consistent in his mediocrity, at least, and it's...fine. It's good enough. Sometimes it's even helpful.

I'm sorry the woman sucks so much for you.

[stopdog]

Really - the therapists I chose and what I did with them are not the point of this thread. No need for sorrow at me. This is not just based on my experience of them as a client - but in reading their literature, taking their classes, suing them etc.

[Argonautomobile]

Sorry - saw your post in Dear T and made assumptions. Didn't mean to overstep.

[InnerPeace111]

They’re helpful to me. My T can say just about anything to me in a kind and caring and compassionate and genuine tone of voice and I’m going to respond positively to it. It’s a conscious choice on my part to respond in this manner. I truly believe my T means what she says and that she cares about me.