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  #26  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 02:40 AM
Anonymous59090
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I'm T's gift
Thanks for this!
DP_2017

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  #27  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 02:59 AM
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magicalprince magicalprince is offline
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I think it's sad that so many therapists accept gifts. I don't think it's healthy for a T to accept or give a gift.

It's not wrong for a client to try to give a gift, but I think it is wrong for a T to accept one. A T really needs to be the half of the relationship that does not encourage or reward this kind of behavior. It is best for a client to feel that there is nothing they can reasonably do to compromise or alter the structure of the therapy or the disposition of the T.
  #28  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
I think it's sad that so many therapists accept gifts. I don't think it's healthy for a T to accept or give a gift.

It's not wrong for a client to try to give a gift, but I think it is wrong for a T to accept one. A T really needs to be the half of the relationship that does not encourage or reward this kind of behavior. It is best for a client to feel that there is nothing they can reasonably do to compromise or alter the structure of the therapy or the disposition of the T.
Accepting a gift doesn't have to change that . A client! Might feel their giving can somehow manipulate the T or compensate for something they feel lacking. But that doesn't mean the T acts along with this.
I think receiving can be compatible with what you wrote.

I don't give presents out of choice. Painful past history with giving.
  #29  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 03:59 AM
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Accepting a gift doesn't have to change that . A client! Might feel their giving can somehow manipulate the T or compensate for something they feel lacking. But that doesn't mean the T acts along with this.
I think receiving can be compatible with what you wrote.

I don't give presents out of choice. Painful past history with giving.
But even if it did not actually change anything in the T it still DID open up the possibility for the client to perceive that their gift MAY have changed something in the T.

Also if the client knows the T will accept one gift, they can reasonably expect that the T will accept another, and that creates a precedent for the client to keep spending money and extra time and resources on the T that is not money paid for services rendered.

If you think about it another way, what if a client said, "can I have a kiss?" And what if the T said in return, "I can't give you a kiss, but you're free to give me one if you want to do that."

Even if a T merely accepts a client's kiss, it is still a boundary issue. Same thing. Even if a T merely accepts a client's gift, it is a boundary issue. The act of not saying no is a boundary issue because it is inviting the client to misunderstand and misconstrue the T's role in their life.

It is a T's responsibility to set firm boundaries which send the message that "I am your T, not your friend or your parent." It's not the same as accepting a gift would be on say, the part of a teacher or a coworker. Because it is not a teacher or coworker's responsibility to help a client exercise effective interpersonal behaviors. However it IS a T's responsibility to help a client exercise healthy interpersonal behaviors. So when it comes to gifts, it is not a client's responsibility to not try gift-giving, but, it is a T's responsibility to respectfully decline.
  #30  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 04:09 AM
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But even if it did not actually change anything in the T it still DID open up the possibility for the client to perceive that their gift MAY have changed something in the T.

Also if the client knows the T will accept one gift, they can reasonably expect that the T will accept another, and that creates a precedent for the client to keep spending money and extra time and resources on the T that is not money paid for services rendered.

If you think about it another way, what if a client said, "can I have a kiss?" And what if the T said in return, "I can't give you a kiss, but you're free to give me one if you want to do that."

Even if a T merely accepts a client's kiss, it is still a boundary issue. Same thing. Even if a T merely accepts a client's gift, it is a boundary issue. The act of not saying no is a boundary issue because it is inviting the client to misunderstand and misconstrue the T's role in their life.

It is a T's responsibility to set firm boundaries which send the message that "I am your T, not your friend or your parent." It's not the same as accepting a gift would be on say, the part of a teacher or a coworker. Because it is not a teacher or coworker's responsibility to help a client exercise effective interpersonal behaviors. However it IS a T's responsibility to help a client exercise healthy interpersonal behaviors. So when it comes to gifts, it is not a client's responsibility to not try gift-giving, but, it is a T's responsibility to respectfully decline.
But therapy is where these issues get addressed. Of course if it was some expensive gift then they has to be addressed. But a small token on special occasions is a different matter. Boundaries aren't a wall. And each clients motives are different which I trust a T would also be aware of and address. Some good work can come from a simple gesture . i
Also, one has to take into account a therapist is competent. Perhaps some T's just plain feel threatened. Haven't done enough work of their own or enought training to know how to handle recieving?
Recieving can be incorporated.
  #31  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 04:21 AM
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I will also add. I've sent occasional photos of my grandchildren as giving is scary to me. As giving to mother was Mocked. whatever I gave her as a child.
T always recieved Saying "thank you for this" like what I gave her mattered. I mattered.
  #32  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Mouse_62 View Post
But therapy is where these issues get addressed. Of course if it was some expensive gift then they has to be addressed. But a small token on special occasions is a different matter. Boundaries aren't a wall. And each clients motives are different which I trust a T would also be aware of and address. Some good work can come from a simple gesture . i
Also, one has to take into account a therapist is competent. Perhaps some T's just plain feel threatened. Haven't done enough work of their own or enought training to know how to handle recieving?
Recieving can be incorporated.
Yes, therapy is where issues get addressed. The therapist would address the issue by setting clear boundaries that reflected "this is therapy, this is not a personal relationship."

Therapy is a place for talking about desires, not enacting them. It's also not a place for enacting them while talking about them. It's just not supposed to be a place to enact them, period.
  #33  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 04:34 AM
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Yes, therapy is where issues get addressed. The therapist would address the issue by setting clear boundaries that reflected "this is therapy, this is not a personal relationship."

Therapy is a place for talking about desires, not enacting them. It's also not a place for enacting them while talking about them. It's just not supposed to be a place to enact them, period.
Whoa. I'm glad my therapist over the past 15yrs has been a bit more gentle. And knowledgeable
  #34  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 05:57 AM
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Whoa. I'm glad my therapist over the past 15yrs has been a bit more gentle. And knowledgeable


What I mean is that the T doesn’t have to accept the gift to understand and acknowledge the client’s desire to give it. The understanding is what’s really important, rather than the act of receiving. It is sad when a T just accepts a gift and says “thanks” rather than utilizing that important opportunity to better know and serve their client’s needs.
  #35  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 10:20 AM
Thalassophile Thalassophile is offline
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Originally Posted by magicalprince View Post
I think it's sad that so many therapists accept gifts. I don't think it's healthy for a T to accept or give a gift.

It's not wrong for a client to try to give a gift, but I think it is wrong for a T to accept one. A T really needs to be the half of the relationship that does not encourage or reward this kind of behavior. It is best for a client to feel that there is nothing they can reasonably do to compromise or alter the structure of the therapy or the disposition of the T.
I think a T giving a gift may cross a boundary but do not see how accepting one does at all! It all depends on the motivation behind giving the gift IMO. This can be explored and offer great insight into the clients thought processes and how they are in their relationships outside therapy. I mean some people give gifts because they want to be liked more and feel it will help their cause. Some people give gifts purely as an expression of thanks or to show someone they care. There are many different reasons.

Giving a small gift to someone in no way needs to compromise or change the current relationship especially if the T makes sure they don't let it. If a T is able to leave their ego behind and realize that the client is just expressing a 'need' or 'desire' to show them thanks or care I think it would actually be healing for the client if they accepted it. This is all said with the presumption that the gift is more of a 'token' and doesn't have excessive monetary value.

I give small token gifts to numerous other people in my life and in no way has it changed the relationship I have with them. I have often asked myself if it is because I want them to 'like me' and the conclusion I've come to is it is not. It is based on my belief that Christmas is a time of giving and acknowledging those people that play a role in our lives day in and day out and that have a positive impact. Whether that's my child's teacher in school , the concierge in my building (who always greets me with a smile ), or the cleaners in work (who do an excellent job but are often unpaid and not appreciated) I just don't see how it's a bad thing I really don't .
  #36  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 10:35 AM
Thalassophile Thalassophile is offline
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What I mean is that the T doesn’t have to accept the gift to understand and acknowledge the client’s desire to give it. The understanding is what’s really important, rather than the act of receiving. It is sad when a T just accepts a gift and says “thanks” rather than utilizing that important opportunity to better know and serve their client’s needs.
You are right the T doesn't have to accept a gift to understand and acknowledge the clients desire to give it but what about the client here? Not accepting a gift can cause far more damage IMO. Again I'm talking about small token gifts. Some people may have huge difficulty expressing their 'needs' or 'desires' or even showing 'care'. Is not accepting it in this instance not causing damage to that? T's often don't accept gifts because they are worried what it might say to the client and how it might impact boundaries. To me not acceptinga gift can often 'say' a lot more than they think it does.

I also think if a client gives a gift they should utilize the opportunity to explore it more and not just say 'thanks' and move on as if it's no big deal. I'm still debating whether to give my T a gift or not and I may well not. If I do however (and they accept it) I would hope they would ask me what it means to give it to them and not just say 'oh thanks and move on'
  #37  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 11:51 AM
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You are right the T doesn't have to accept a gift to understand and acknowledge the clients desire to give it but what about the client here? Not accepting a gift can cause far more damage IMO. Again I'm talking about small token gifts. Some people may have huge difficulty expressing their 'needs' or 'desires' or even showing 'care'. Is not accepting it in this instance not causing damage to that? T's often don't accept gifts because they are worried what it might say to the client and how it might impact boundaries. To me not acceptinga gift can often 'say' a lot more than they think it does.

I also think if a client gives a gift they should utilize the opportunity to explore it more and not just say 'thanks' and move on as if it's no big deal. I'm still debating whether to give my T a gift or not and I may well not. If I do however (and they accept it) I would hope they would ask me what it means to give it to them and not just say 'oh thanks and move on'
Speaking personally, as someone who's ended up being seriously damaged by a well-meaning and caring T who simply had inconsistent boundaries, I really wish she had known better and been stronger to be able to set those boundaries even when they seemed insignificant. I really wish I had been given the small frustration of having to accept and adapt to the therapy boundaries rather than the eventual trauma of having those boundaries collapse beneath me because really they were just defined on a whim by whatever felt convenient or good at the time.

The therapy boundaries don't exist to make the client feel good. They exist to protect the client from being taken advantage of. The more the T is loose with those boundaries, the more room for harm to occur. And it's just not necessary. As they say, "it's the thought that counts." I believe a T should acknowledge the thought, examine the feelings and reasoning for wanting to give it, give the client space to talk all about those things and be heard--and still not accept the gift.
  #38  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 11:55 AM
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I think a T that causes damage doesn't need a gift to highlight that. A bad T is a bad T and the accepting gifts wasnt the crime. The T was.
  #39  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 12:12 PM
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I think a T that causes damage doesn't need a gift to highlight that. A bad T is a bad T and the accepting gifts wasnt the crime. The T was.
I (somewhat) agree. It's not about the act, it's about the intention. So then in the case of a bad T, you don't want them receiving lots of personal gifts from clients they are actually harming, as the act of giving those gifts will help to keep those clients feeling invested in that bad situation. Because it creates more room for more blurring of intentions.
  #40  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 12:29 PM
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I (somewhat) agree. It's not about the act, it's about the intention. So then in the case of a bad T, you don't want them receiving lots of personal gifts from clients they are actually harming, as the act of giving those gifts will help to keep those clients feeling invested in that bad situation. Because it creates more room for more blurring of intentions.

I think across the board. There are therapists that can handle the situation. There maybe clients with these intentions, who give a gift regularly. Yes they would need addressing. But I think at Xmas, one should view this for what it is. If I were to give my T a small token at Xmas that no way would that undo the good work we've done and I tend to feel that is the way with many.
If you've not experienced a T that can maintain the boundaries then I see that's difficult to pair together.
I'm still not giving a gift, but I'm not against it.
  #41  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 12:53 PM
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I think a T can maintain boundaries and accept a gift especially given in the context of Christmas. Giving a random gift to a T in the middle of the year versus giving a small token gift at a time like Christmas (taking into consideration that you both celebrate Christmas) are two different things. Accepting numerous gifts from a client throughout the year of course can blur boundaries and cause damage. Accepting a small token gift at Xmas to me is nowhere near the same thing. To me it has also to do with context and what the T does the rest of the time. Do they maintain strict boundaries? If they don't and they accept a gift yes that can lead down an already slippery slope.
  #42  
Old Dec 15, 2017, 01:02 PM
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Speaking personally, as someone who's ended up being seriously damaged by a well-meaning and caring T who simply had inconsistent boundaries, I really wish she had known better and been stronger to be able to set those boundaries even when they seemed insignificant. I really wish I had been given the small frustration of having to accept and adapt to the therapy boundaries rather than the eventual trauma of having those boundaries collapse beneath me because really they were just defined on a whim by whatever felt convenient or good at the time.

The therapy boundaries don't exist to make the client feel good. They exist to protect the client from being taken advantage of. The more the T is loose with those boundaries, the more room for harm to occur. And it's just not necessary. As they say, "it's the thought that counts." I believe a T should acknowledge the thought, examine the feelings and reasoning for wanting to give it, give the client space to talk all about those things and be heard--and still not accept the gift.
I'm sorry to hear that your T caused you damage. I can see how if your T has loose boundaries accepting gifts can blur boundaries even further and cause damage. I guess I was perhaps only thinking about it from own perspective of a T who although shows me great care and kindness maintains strict boundaries at all times. In that scenario I think it's okay.
This has helped me see things from another perspective though.
Thanks for this!
magicalprince
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