[guilloche]

I was going to ask something else, but when I started writing... this sort of took shape instead.

With my old T - I had a LOT of thoughts after my sessions. I thought about our interactions, what he said, what I said, and any issues that came up. Mostly though, I thought about what happened in session because it usually left me feeling bad/sad/hurt/unseen - and I was trying to figure out why, on my own.

This was not fun, but maybe it was useful? I brought this stuff up with him a lot... I'm not sure that he knew how to work with that kind of stuff, where I was using our interactions to think through how I interact with people in general, b/c sometimes I think he may have taken it a bit personally. But, I'm not sure.

I eventually left, b/c I felt so constantly unseen by my therapist just felt awful and unfixable (I tried talking about it with him several times, he didn't seem to get it).

Now I have a new therapist, and have seen her for 5 or 6 months. And, I don't think about sessions afterwards at all. Partly, I'm sure, it's because she doesn't say things that are hurtful. But partly, it just feels weird. Like all she's doing is reflecting stuff back, not adding content/interpretations, so not giving me anything to think about, if that makes sense?

I can't really find fault with her, she seems like a decent human, nice, smart, specializes in trauma, punctual, etc. There's not *anything* wrong with her, but I feel like I'm not connecting at all... and I'm struggling a bit with it.

I don't know what I'm asking... just thinking it through and trying to get the thoughts sorted out, I guess.

How much do you think about your session afterwards? How much processing, analyzing, remembering, figuring out... do you do after the session? I think it's normal to do some, right? It feels weird to me that I leave and don't feel any inclination to think through my sessions at this point... and that I don't have anything that I can really mentally "hold on to" during the week (replay, remember, think about).

I feel weird. And next session is tomorrow! And, I sort of miss old therapist, still (STILL!) despite the "not being seen". Ugh... me!

[DP_2017]

maybe I'm weird but since i began going in spring, i journal every session. i write about things discussed or funny/important things said etc.... its helpful to see progress and spots in need to still work on etc.

mostly though after a session directly, i just think about the rest of the things i need to do for the day/evening

but before bed when i reflect, i mostly tend to fixate on one specific thing... sometimes it makes me feel crappy and sometimes i feel great. depends what it is

[guilloche]

Thanks DP, that's a great idea. I'll have to see if it will work for me - it's weird, because I don't feel like I remember enough to really even journal about. Like, there's no substance to the session, so there's not anything to think or write about. It's very weird, and very unlike me (I tend to think about everything!)

[ElectricManatee]

It depends a bit on how deep/intense the session was, but generally I think about my sessions for a day or two afterward. Before the session, I get the most value out of organizing my thoughts so I know what I want to say. Afterward I get the most out of thinking about what my T said. Sometimes I am surprised by where my brain goes in session, like making connections between things I hadn't thought were related, so I think about that when it happens. I also journal if I have too much going on in my head or if I want to remember something that seems particularly important.

I think the key thing here is that you aren't really feeling a connection with your T. I might try talking about that with her and seeing what's going on there. The connection is pretty important to me, and I think that trust and respect are why her words have weight after the session is over. It obviously takes time to get there, but it seems to me like six months would be enough time to feel it.

I do think it's a good thing that you've moved on from the T that made you feel unseen, though. I don't think that's a recipe for good therapy, even if the experience prompted a lot of introspection for you.

[MrsDuckL]

I usually spend at least a day or so processing my weekly sessions. I always sit in my car and journal as much of my session as I can remember—what I said, what my therapist said, how I reacted, etc. Using a “brain dump” of the actual specifics of the conversation help me later process the content of what was said and how I feel about it. I meditate every evening, so my meditation following my session is usually tapping into the emotions that the session raised and how I feel about it. I’m a hyper observant person, so also sometimes spend days analyzing my therapist’s movement or body language or expression. (He is not the blank slate type at all.)

I’m with Manatee, I think it’s worth taking note of your connection or lack of one, if that’s something that is important to you. (It’s incredibly important to me.) For me personally, although I want to lead the discussion and set the topic, I also expect my therapist to add his own thoughts and insight in addition to reflecting back what I’m saying. I enjoy being challenged in this way—it will sometimes take me weeks to come back with an answer (another reason I try to keep detailed session notes.)

[RaineD]

I think about my sessions a great deal. If the session was intense, I analyze the **** out of it. If the session was light and easy (where all we did was joke and laugh a lot), I still replay the session over and over in my head. I also take notes after sessions--important things that were discussed, my feelings and thoughts, what I want to bring up next time, etc. My therapist upsets me quite a bit, and I think about that too. Then I post here and get everyone else to think about it with me.

I had a similar problem as yours with the guy I saw briefly right before my current therapist. He was a psychoanalyst so blank screen and everything. But he was kind, polite, and soft-spoken, and he reflected a lot of what I said back to me. He seemed like a very decent human being. But I felt no connection. And while I remembered our sessions very well, nothing that transpired ever seemed important. I tried taking session notes but never had anything to write about. The sessions bored me. Then my current therapist got back to me, and we scheduled a consultation. After that consultation session, I immediately broke up with the analyst and never looked back.

I think there's a happy middle ground between someone who constantly makes you feel unseen and someone who doesn't challenge you and make you think.

[benzenering]

I sometimes think through and journal about a session intensely, including researching the topics, but lately we are on a subject my counselor is forcing me to face (and I am seriously dragging my feet) and I haven't written in my journal at all. Is the subject matter you are discussing engaging you? Maybe you are dissociating during session (I do this a lot) and you need your counselor to "bring you back"?

[guilloche]

Thanks, everyone. I just got back from the session today... and feel kind of rotten. We *did* end up talking about this, and it sounds like she feels rotten too, like she's not being effective and is hitting road blocks with me, but doesn't know what else to do.

I have a long history of crappy therapy experiences, including getting kicked out, so I asked if she was about to kick me out (that's what it sounds like, when they start talking about feeling ineffective and not good at their job) - and she assured me that I could keep coming as long as I want to.

I feel so hopeless re: therapy. I don't seem to be able to make it work at all, and I don't know why.

We also talked about the fact that there's still a *part* of me that misses the old T, even though my adult, logical self doesn't think I should go back. And the fact that, a long time ago on another forum, someone pointed out that maybe, for *me* - the "hard work" of therapy IS JUST THIS - figuring out how to be in a relationship and be vulnerable and trust and all this stuff. Maybe this IS what my therapy is about and where I need to focus? I told her that, and she said it was very smart... which is great... but there really wasn't anything else to say about it.

Thanks for all your thoughts - I took your (collective!) advice and did journal a bit when I got home, did a brain dump of what I remembered and what I was feeling. Mostly, I'm feeling crappy though!

ElectricManatee - thanks - you're right, the connection (or lack thereof) IS important, I wish I knew why I can't feel it when she genuinely seems like a really lovely person with the skillset that I need?! re: Old T - it's so hard. I've got attachment issues ("who doesn't?" - old T said once) - so the fact that I do have some weird connection to him (it's been over a year now) is irking me.

MrsDuckL - thanks for mentioning the idea of a "brain dump". I did that. It wasn't very long, but it's something. It's just so weird... I think she's trying to add her own thoughts, but maybe they just don't resonate with me? Or maybe everything she adds feels like something I've already heard, and it's kind of hard for me to look interested when I'm like, "yeah, tried that, yeah, heard of that, yeah... been doing that for awhile".

RaineD - Ha, thanks for this line (" My therapist upsets me quite a bit, and I think about that too. Then I post here and get everyone else to think about it with me.") - I can relate! Old T told new T, when they talked on the phone, "you know, she blogs about bad therapists!" (I don't, he clearly misunderstood what this place is).

And, thanks for telling me about your experience with the blank slate T. That does seem a little like this one, although I don't think (but am not sure) if she means to be a blank slate. I don't know nearly as much about her as I did with old T... old T made a point to tell me that he's not a blank slate type therapist. Sometimes I wonder if I knew too much about his life, I don't know. Maybe that makes him more connect-able (for me)?

Benzenering - thanks! I'm honestly not sure what I should be discussing, because there's nothing that feels pressing or like I really want to bring to therapy. I don't think that I don't need therapy though (because my life feels kind of crappy and unfun), but... meh. I don't know. It feels like a chicken-and-egg type of thing, right? I don't feel connected, so I can't access/discuss deeper material, but because I'm talking about shallow things, I don't feel connected...

I have this bad feeling that I'm going to end up landing back on old T's doorstep. New T keeps telling me, when we talk about it, that it sounds like there's a connection there and like I was "doing therapy" by talking to him about all the stuff he did that bugged me... it just never seemed to get better :/ On the other hand, I feel like he's one of the few Ts that I won't accidentally "break" with my inability connect/respond.

Thanks for listening and letting me get all this out!

[pepper_mint]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Thanks, everyone. I just got back from the session today... and feel kind of rotten. We *did* end up talking about this, and it sounds like she feels rotten too, like she's not being effective and is hitting road blocks with me, but doesn't know what else to do.

Yesterday I had a similar session :-/
T said that she feels useless and don't know how to help me (at that moment). And I feel bad because I know that I don't talk too much, I don't have any urgent issues to discuss I don't know what to talk about - so I just sit there. I understand that it's not easy also for T. because she wants to do something (help me) but can't. I don't let her to do this :-/

Originally Posted by guilloche

And the fact that, a long time ago on another forum, someone pointed out that maybe, for *me* - the "hard work" of therapy IS JUST THIS - figuring out how to be in a relationship and be vulnerable and trust and all this stuff. Maybe this IS what my therapy is about and where I need to focus?

Recently I realized exactly the same! That maybe that's the main problem and I cannot sit there and discuss problems because it's hard to be in a relationship and trust someone.
But I'm also wondering - is it possible for me to someday overcome that?
Or therapy is just not for me?

[junkDNA]

I go over everything over and over and over in my mind 'til I get exhausted. Then forget abt it mostly

[guilloche]

junkDNA - thanks for that. It sounds a little exhausting and stressful, but I think I understand where you're coming from

Pepper Mint - Wow, yes! It sounds like you're dealing with something very similar to me. How do you feel about your T - do you feel connected at all? It worries me that I don't, but I don't know why. She seems lovely, kind, authentic, smart... there's no reason for me to not like her. There's nothing really wrong when we talk to each other. I can't tell if it's just a symptom of depression (i.e. because I'm depressed, nothing is really getting through) - or what.

It's frustrating, because with last T - for awhile at least - I *did* want to communicate, even when I couldn't. I'd write things out for him to read, I'd think about things, and I felt the need to share. And, I've had friends like this... that once I felt safe and trusted them, I *wanted* to share things about my life. So, I don't know why I don't feel that way with this T

The relationship/trust stuff is SO hard, isn't it? I wonder, for me, if part of it is that my parents were very neglectful and not present. I don't really have a good model in my head for the idea of somebody who wants to help... I was also thinking that honestly, I don't believe any therapist is really going to be there for me. At the end of the day, I'm totally on my own, and if things get bad, if I get triggered, if I fall apart - I'm the one who has to deal with that, alone. I literally cannot imagine having a hard time, calling my therapist, and having that be helpful... (the most I can imagine is them telling me that if I'm struggling, I need to call 911, etc.). I just can't imagine what they could possibly say that would in any way help, especially since they never say things that make me feel better while I'm in their office. It's not like "oh, I always feel better when I talk to T, so I'll call them now and they'll help."

I don't know what to do with that though. It seems really important, and sad, and I don't know what to do with it.

Thanks!

[fille_folle]

I obsess over the horrible things I let slip to T and what she must think of me. It's really infantile.

I also write down helpful or healing things T said. My memory is horrible in a lot of ways, but lots of times I remember tidbits of conversations word for word (at least temporarily). If I can't remember the exact words, I can at least record the general message. The things I write down are mostly things T said in response to trauma disclosures and my negative beliefs. For example, I might write down, "five year olds don't make adults do things," or "the fact that he liked it doesn't make it right." When I'm upset, it helps to read these statements back to myself.

[pepper_mint]

Originally Posted by guilloche

How do you feel about your T - do you feel connected at all? It worries me that I don't, but I don't know why.

For me, it varies from session to session
Sometimes I feel super connected (as for my possibilities ), and sometimes I feel that it's a stranger for me, I don't know T at all, she just doing her job and that's all.

But I also know that for me it's really difficult to build a relationship. T also noticed that often when I'm more connected and say something deeper, than usually, I have to pull back a little bit. Probably I'm afraid or something...

Originally Posted by guilloche

It's frustrating, because with last T - for awhile at least - I *did* want to communicate, even when I couldn't. I'd write things out for him to read, I'd think about things, and I felt the need to share. And, I've had friends like this... that once I felt safe and trusted them, I *wanted* to share things about my life. So, I don't know why I don't feel that way with this T

Maybe this T reminds you someone relevant?
I've noticed that when I feel something associated with my mum one day, it's more difficult to connect to T on the next day (which probably reminds me her).

Originally Posted by guilloche

The relationship/trust stuff is SO hard, isn't it? I wonder, for me, if part of it is that my parents were very neglectful and not present. I don't really have a good model in my head for the idea of somebody who wants to help... I was also thinking that honestly, I don't believe any therapist is really going to be there for me. At the end of the day, I'm totally on my own, and if things get bad, if I get triggered, if I fall apart - I'm the one who has to deal with that, alone.

I understand this very well!!! I think the same.
Generally, I feel, that I can have friends but if I really, really need someone's help I will be left alone. Because people have their own lives and more important things. And with therapy it's the same story - T is there for me, but only from time to time, for a limited time. But what when I need help on the other day? :-/ Of course, I appreciate this, that T wants to help, but it's only a job she does...

I bet that these feelings come from my childhood. Probably I needed my parents' attention or help from time to time, but maybe I didn't get enough so now I think that no one is there for me and wouldn't help me if needed.

[musinglizzy]

[QUOTE=guilloche;5923058]

I have a long history of crappy therapy experiences, including getting kicked out, so I asked if she was about to kick me out (that's what it sounds like, when they start talking about feeling ineffective and not good at their job) - and she assured me that I could keep coming as long as I want to.

I feel so hopeless re: therapy. I don't seem to be able to make it work at all, and I don't know why.

QUOTE]

I'm sorry, I don't have any advice, really...although like someone else said, I, too, used to journal after every session. I found that helpful at the time, but haven't been doing it lately. It seems like thee isn't much to talk about anymore...and I feel the same way, like I just don't think therapy is going to be helpful for me. I'm three and a half years in, and seems like things have just gotten worse. Yet I'm attached to my T, so who kows...

[guilloche]

Thanks everyone! I have therapy tomorrow (Tuesday), and am feeling nervous about it. I've been trying to journal a bit more... but I think part of the problem is that I don't feel safe/comfortable enough to share these things with her yet, even just things about how she sometimes comes across.

I'm a big believer in the unconscious, and that little things can make you feel "unsafe" (in an unconscious way) - enough so that it becomes hard to talk. I think the fact that she keeps coming back to medication, and that she *sounds* forceful and energetic and a little frustrated when she says things like, "you need to be on medication" - is not really adding to me feeling safe.

I also feel like... her talking about "it doesn't feel good to me either" (i.e. our sessions) is not helpful . It adds more static. She can follow that up all she wants with, "it's not your job to take care of me" - but if that's true, why is she telling me how crappy our sessions are? Why isn't she, instead, asking whether I think the sessions are useful?

She's said a couple times that, especially with a trauma history "slower is faster" - but I don't feel like she actually believes that. All this stuff about her feeling like she's not being useful makes me feel like she doesn't really have the patience to sit with me and go as slow as I need to. And THAT slows things down more, because it's hard to trust someone who is saying "it's OK to go slow" and then saying, "but I feel like we're not doing enough, so you need to hurry up".

Ugh. I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm thinking about quitting, because I just don't know that our personalities mesh enough to make this work. I think that if I *felt* more support, more connection, etc... maybe that would make a difference. My logical-brain believes she's being authentic and trying to be supportive... but my emotional-brain isn't feeling it, isn't responding, isn't connecting

Fille Folle - Thanks... writing down the good things and messages that you want to remember sounds like a great idea. Obsessing over the things you said... I understand that! I am trying to be open and honest in therapy about who I am, even when it's not very flattering, but... sometimes I think there IS such a thing as too much honesty, even in therapy.

Pepper_Mint - That's really interesting that it varies so much for you from session to session, and that you need to pull back a bit after sharing something. My old T used to tell me that I "push people away" - but we never really talked about what he meant or whether that should actually be, "I push therapists away" .

Generally, I feel, that I can have friends but if I really, really need someone's help I will be left alone. Because people have their own lives and more important things.

- Yes! Exactly! Though, a lot of my friends have move away or we've grown apart, so I don't have as many people as I used to. But even so, it's really hard. It's hard to make new friends, and as an adult, it's really hard to find people that I click with and would want to be close friends with. It seemed so much easier when I was younger and still in school!

And yes, obviously, I totally agree about the Ts (being only there for one hour a week). I don't expect much more from them, but some people do... and if something really awful happens and there's no one else to call, it would be nice to be able to call my T, and to have a reasonable expectation that they'd listen and be helpful/comforting. But that doesn't seem to be part of what I get in therapy

MusingLizzy - Thanks for writing, and the suggestions... I'm sorry that things are tough for you right now. I wish I had something that I could say to give you (and me!) some hope. I just feel like I must be missing something re: therapy. It just seems like... it shouldn't be this hard to just have a connection. I'd say that I'm ready to give up, but I seem to say that after every failed therapy attempt, so.... I will probably, maybe keep trying. Or maybe I'll just go back to reading self-help books, who knows.

Thanks... happy Monday everybody!

[pepper_mint]

Yeah, it's really hard with this connection :-/
2 sessions ago T said that she feels useless a little bit. I was really happy after this because I felt that she opened, she said about her true feelings etc. It was important to me and I felt more connected.
But in the next session, she said that she felt that maybe because it was my feeling - she just received this (I feel useless and she felt this from me - even if I didn't realize that I felt this). And this ruined everything... Because I realized that it wasn't her openness and saying something about her feelings, but she just said something about my feelings felt by her - and that's all, that's probably her job.
And after that session, I feel sad and disconnected again. Because I feel that it's not a real relationship.
It's a pity because my T is really a good person, she helps people (like homeless etc), she really focused on me all the time, she remembers everything. I can't imagine better T. But... it seems to be not enough for me.

[guilloche]

Hi PepperMint...

I'm sorry if you mentioned it before, but how long have you been seeing this T? I completely understand why you'd feel like she was opening up and being authentic, and then feel disappointed that that wasn't actually the case.

I find the explanation that the T was just "feeling what the client was feeling" to be really hard to accept. If that's true, that seems like TERRIBLE boundaries, doesn't it? Isn't that very codependent? Shouldn't we only be feeling our own feelings?

I don't get it. It sounds sort of... like a magic trick? I asked my last T about it (and he was very no-nonsense, straightforward) - and he said he'd never heard of that, and that it sound like "BS".

I think it's hard, because some of us DO need the connection to heal (in my opinion). I think that's what all the research that says "the relationship/fit with the T matters more than the type of therapy that they practice". I think, but I'm not sure, maybe for some people and some issues, it matters less... my friend who went for help with anxiety didn't need a relationship/connection with the T - she needed somebody who was competent at treating anxiety, and who could walk her through what she needed to do. Then she was done. But, that's not true for everyone - sadly!

I have my session this afternoon, in a couple hours. I'm feeling a little nervous. I started thinking about all the stuff that's gone on between us and how I feel, and I'm honestly not sure that I should continue with her. It's hard, b/c I think she's a genuinely nice person, and that she has the training that I want (she's the first one I've seen who specializes in trauma) - but I feel like we're speaking different languages.

I also feel like, it's hard to trust her - because she sometimes says one thing, then contradicts it a few weeks later. I avoided a trip for work (I had some health problems) and she told me that it was good that I took care of myself, and that I was avoiding the massive stress of travel... but a couple weeks later, she said she was really disappointed and thought it would have been better for me to go. She keeps sounding frustrated that I won't consider medication... talking about that once or twice is fine, but I feel like she's admitting she doesn't know how to treat me unless I'm medicated, and that's not something that I'm willing to do at this point (I don't think I need it, too many possible side effects, and I've done genetic testing that shows I'm 15x less likely than average to even respond to antidepressants!)

It's hard. I guess I'm going to try to talk about it today, but I have a feeling I may end up quitting by the end of the session And, I shouldn't care - but it's been so hard to find anyone that even looks promising. I've been through so many Ts...

Hmm a thought for you. When you say "it's not a real relationship" - does it help at all to think about the fact that it IS a real relationship, just not a real "friendship"? It's a different type of relationship, but there's still something there that's real... Do you feel like she cares about you, even though she's providing a professional service?

Just a thought! Hope you're otherwise having a good day. I'm stuck in all-day meetings for work... they're taking a break for lunch now (phew) - so I'm glad to finally be off the phone!

[pepper_mint]

I'm seeing T for almost 1.5y (and it's twice a week!)

And I agree with you - for me, it's important to feel this connection with T. Analyzing stuff is also important but I like to feel that someone is open (then I'm more open as well) and it's nice to feel something in this relationship and not to focus only on other issues.

Regarding "a real relationship" - yes, that's true. And I always tell people that it's real, that T's care about us, they feel etc. We have just boundaries for our own good because therapy has to help us. But sometimes when I'm frustrated I started thinking that they care and it's genuine but it's not enough and only for 50 minutes. And maybe after the session, they don't think at all (which would be healthy for them, I guess, but It's sad for me) :-/

And how's your session? As I understood - in general, you feel that your T is a really good person, authentic, who cares etc. But you just don't feel this connection, right?
But the question is if you don't feel this because you both don't fit (sometimes it happens) or you just not able (at the moment) to feel this connection because of other not resolved (unknown) issues?