Crossing boundaries

In the past with other therapists, namely the best therapist I ever had whom I miss greatly every day and with the one who died, I've managed to cross their boundaries, and they've always dealt with it fantastically. Even when it came out as a flat refusal to see me even in one of my most dire needs. She knew I was becoming too reliant on her, especially after she did go out of her way to see me outside of session (She was a therapist I saw at the college who they hired for students who needed therapy but didn't have insurance to see), so going to her was super easy. She was right in the student development center.

And I remember once I was so upset in the middle of a panic attack and sobbing and I begged to see her, but she wouldn't even come out of her office, she had her receptionist tell me, "T says you are not scheduled, she'll be happy to see you at the scheduled appointment time and thinks this is a good opportunity for you to put into work some of the things discussed in therapy." At the time of course I was angry, hurt, and feeling betrayed. How could she?! But I realize now, that we both knew, and she mentioned herself a few sessions prior, that I was becoming much too dependent on others when I was upset. I would constantly need to be seen for anything that upset me. And we both knew that wasn't healthy or the right way to cope. I just needed someone to diffuse it, otherwise I'd work myelf up into such a horrid state I could barely move before I came crashing down. But my T said sometimes you need to crash, what you do before you crash is what matters. To try the things I was taught, and to keep doing it until I found something that may work and keep at it.

Her refusal to see me was the best decision for both of us. It helped me in immesurable ways. I'm sure it may come off as cold and uncaring to some but it was what was perfectly right in the situation. Not trying to idolize her she crossed a few lines with me which I told her so to her face eventually, but she was right to turn me away and tell me to deal with it myself for once.

However I never had a T cross so many boundaries at once. I'm not sure quite how to handle this one crossing a boundary, with my original T it was so easy. She made one off-hand comment I didn't particularly like about my school work, like she was my mother chastising her child and I didn't like that at all and told her so. I told her I was angry with her, and that it was inappropriate and I didn't appreciate it. Which she commented on the fact that it was okay to be angry and she could understand it, and she gave her reason for doing it (If I didn't get good grades and flunked out I wouldn't be able to see her), but also told me she found it interesting that I saw her as a Mother figure but when she acted like a mother would, in my point of view, I hated it.

I can't really do that for this one, my emotions or anything don't seem to affect her. The last time I told her I was upset with her she got super defensive about it and then turned it around so it was my fault.

How do you handle it when a T crosses a boundary?

There is a huge difference between boundary violations (such as sexually or financially exploiting a client) and boundary crossings. Boundary crossings are acts that are outside the usual structure of therapy by can have beneficial use (going for a walk during a session with an anxious client, giving an item that has meaning to the therapy work but is not high dollar value etc)

Her defensiveness is just not the sign of an effective therapist. Your negative reactions are normal and part of the work. She should not take it so personally.

What kinds of boundary issues do you mean? Are you comfortable giving specifics?

We had a conversation about how some clients need firmer boundaries and others need them relaxed.
As my history was of having no one there for me, it wouldn't be therapeutic for T to refuse to see me when I've been in crisis.
I've never pushed the boundaries so I'm in the later bracket. T relaxed them for me.
When I've emailed in crisis T Has offered
me an extra session as she said I need the support.

Theres not really a one Size fits all. A clients history needs taking into consideration.

This seems like such a simple concept, but I really struggle with identifying what is a crossing and what is a (potential) violation. I have discussed my therapist's boundary crossings with her, but I can't accept that a crossing can be a positive thing. It feels threatening and I don't trust it. Anyway, thank you for making the point so succinctly, I think about this a lot.

If what the previous therapist did for you (not responding to your need or want) has helped you inmeasurably that a good thing. You have learned to calm and sooth yourself and have added increased health. benefits.

I would not have been so lucky. I did not see it as pushing boundaries I just needed what I needed when I needed it and wanted it. I was grateful to have a therapist that was willing to meet those needs and wants as much as she could. I am sure it was tiring and maybe even exasperating for my therapist at times. With a therapist I sometimes use now I have no such needs or wants because I can soothe myself, depend on others to help, or reach out to my therapist knowing that she will respond as soon as she can.

I learned the word boundaries on this formum. It became a dirty word in my previous therapy. Sometimes it’s hard to read this forum because boundaries has become such a loaded word
and causes a lot of good people to suffer needlessly.

I like the fact that there are different ways to get the same results and always marvel at those who can progress in other ways. Traditional therapies had me checking out of life. I wish you luck with the new therapist and sorting out the boundary crossings.

That is kind to say thanks but maybe it isn’t as simple? Can the little things lead right up to the line in the sand? It’s funny how those things have worked just fine with me and past t’s but with current warning bells go off for me to be careful.

Yes, I think you are right that a number of seemingly small boundary changes can ultimately re-colour the therapeutic landscape. Even when these changes are explicit, negotiated and beneficial, if the warning bell goes off we would be foolish to ignore it - especially if there are previous life experiences of boundary violations which have taught us to be wary of shifting boundaries.

I suppose it makes sense that your boundary changes with previous therapists don't necessarily mean that changes with your current therapist will be ok. After all, the boundary is a mutual meeting and not just characterised by your self.

I have not had to experience this problem with my current T. In the past, I had one T I saw a few times. I did not like some of the things she did and ended up leaving her and therapy completely (for 20 yrs). That might not have been the best way to handle it.

If I could, I would not stay with a T that became defensive about my emotions. I have a hard enough time believing I can share them or anyone really cares about them in the first place, so if I had a T that became defensive, it would just add to the shame I already have about having non-happy emotions. As already pointed out, T's need to be flexible to what a client needs and the history behind those needs. Perhaps this T is trying something with you and it is not working well (in the now) or perhaps this T is not a very good T. I think the only way you'd be able to find out is to try to have one of those step back conversations about therapy in general, without the discussion being "therapyized". In short, I think you need to find out if this behavior is part of her intervention and treatment plan for you or is this her personality and temperament coming through. From there you can make a decision on how you want to proceed.

Oh and also, if she is getting defensive, then your emotions are having an effect on her, just maybe not the one you want or in the way you want them to.

It's hard to say what I would do in your situation without knowing exactly what boundaries she was crossing.

If for example, your current therapist is sounding like your mother and you are angry about that, then the only thing to really do is to tell her about your anger. If you state it reasonably calmly and she still responds defensively, then you might want to consider transferring therapists.

On the other hand, she touches you in a way that you don't want, or does things like show up at your house or call you in the middle of the night, those are clear ethical boundaries that should not be crossed. In that case I would report her to her ethics board.

If you have trouble telling if this is just a "bad fit" or actually an unethical therapist, and you are uncomfortable posting any details, then you could make an appointment with another therapist to discuss the first therapist to see if what she did was ok or not. In either case though, you don't have to stay with a therapist who is making you feel worse rather than better.

There have been times when one past T has done things that would be considered boundary crossings by just about any therapist. I became the therapist and he became the client at times; role reversal. At first, I just accepted it, but later, I would handle the situation with T as a T would with a client.

If it adds to the conversation, I would just like to say that I see many people on this forum assume something is a boundary of another person.

For example, people don't want to email their therapist in fear of crossing a boundary when it is not known whether or not the therapist even uses emails (many therapists consider emails part of their job). How would you know you are crossing someone's boundary (within reason as some things are just obvious)?

Just yesterday, I read on here a therapist's claim that a client crossed a boundary by bringing him leftover office candy. Unless there was a sign in his office "Please do not bring candy" or maybe stated "I do not accept gifts of any kind", how would the client know she is crossing the therapist's boundary by bring candy?

Not thinking of anyone here in particular, but sometimes the assumed boundary is actually the boundary of the person doing the assuming as sense of self issues can blend these sorts of things. (ie, if I find unplanned calls intrusive, if I don't have a solid sense of self, instead of 'seeing' the other person as separate from me, I might assume everyone else finds unplanned calls intrusive; meanwhile, some may welcome unplanned phone calls.)

So maybe the T here has sense of self issues; so at times, doesn't see you as a separate person from her. Don't know enough about the situation to make strong opinions. Just thoughts.

Wow i never responded sorry guy, the t in question kept saying she was my mom and that i was her daughter, literally she said it the very first time we met.

I stuffed it until i exploded then she never did it again. I learned to talk about it from there on out and not give a crap how it made her feel

That sounds really bizarre.

She was very bizarre.

....what is the boundary she crossed? I read it several times but didnt see any mention of the boundary or boundaries she crossed...

refusing to accept responsibility for your being upset isnt a boundary violation...

I said it up above, but I'll repeat it cause I know a lot of people don't go through the comments.

Also the reason I didn't originally put it in the first post was because at the time I found out that she had found me on here cause I got upset at something she did and she confronted me about it, and I ONLY typed it here and she read it out to me. It was awful. But now she isnt my therapist so it's okay

The very first session we had together she told me she was my Mom and I was her daughter. She did that a lot. All the time. She'd call me at 10pm at night to talk, she'd text her friends during her sessions, she'd come in crying and telling me about her problems a lot, she wouldn't let me leave her office unless I sang with her, she would talk over me and wouldn't let me answer a question she asked me. She couldn't remember my name for the first 7 months even after a session she'd ask me my name. She couldn't even remember if I was her client. Every time I'd come and she'd ask me "Are you sure you're my client." After 7 months and you're STILL asking me this question I get a bit concerned. She was very touchy feely, whcih I don't like but thats more of a figure out as you go thing. She gave me her cell number and her home address.

The list goes on