[LabRat27]

This is going to be incredibly long, I'm sorry. I can't really properly explain it without context.
tl;dr: saw ex-T for a year when I was 13, a decade ago. She enabled my father's gaslighting, and when I asked for a referral to a new therapist she pretty much told me no other therapist would put up with me. Then, years later, I found out that she'd been gossiping about me with my father's ex-gf, that this had come out in the custody battle, and that that was why she retired shortly thereafter. Now, a decade later, I'm trying to fully commit to therapy but I'm struggling with trusting my current therapist, and I'm debating contacting my ex-T to try to get some closure.


Long version:

When I was 13 and my parents were going through their divorce they found out that I was depressed and self harming and I began to see a therapist (LCSW) and psychiatrist.

My father is a narcissist and master at gaslighting. Both of my parents wanted custody. I wanted my mom to have full custody and told the judge, therapist, guardian ad litem, and everyone else this. My father’s legal argument was "parent alienation syndrome," basically that my mom had brainwashed me into believing that he was abusive. The court ordered that I have family counseling with my father.
I saw my therapist, R, many times before meeting with my father. She kept wanting me to distance myself from and distrust my mom. I wanted to do what I was "supposed" to do, but this resulted in me feeling alienated and alone. My mom was the only other one who understood the experience of living with my father. My mom isn’t perfect, but making me feel guilty for talking to her was not helpful. My mom was also told not to talk to me about it.
Once my father started attending sessions it got even worse. R would side with his interpretation of events and invalidate my feelings. She acted like I was just being a bratty teenager. She became another tool in his gaslighting arsenal that he used to try to bully and "fix" me so I’d be the daughter he thought I should be.
R also definitely crossed boundaries. Part of my issues included "parenting" my mother who was traumatized prior to the divorce, while not acknowledging my own pain. R was going through a divorce and told me about it and various other aspects of her life that many times turned into me reassuring her and worrying about her feelings over my own.

After about a year I asked for a referral to another therapist.

R’s response was that no other therapist would put up with me... that she’d try to think of someone, but I could be sarcastic and abrasive and off-putting (somewhat true at times, but hardly an unusual defense mechanism for a 14 year old), and she wasn’t sure any other therapist would be willing to see past that and work with me and care about me anyway the way she had.
She said this as if she was telling me for my own good as a kindness. I believed it at face value. It stung, but it didn’t hurt nearly as much as it could have because I had always held back to keep myself protected.

Fast forward... I was 18, the divorce was over, and I was away in undergrad. My mom finally shared some things she hadn’t been allowed to tell me at the time. My mom's account of these events was also later confirmed by a close family friend with whom my mom discussed it at the time. These events happened when I was 14-15, but I was not made aware of them until I was 18:
R had been going to testify on my father’s behalf regarding custody. This didn’t happen.
My father had been dating an immature vindictive crazy b**** (CB) at that time.
When she'd broken up with my father she contacted my mom and told her things about my father as revenge. Unbeknownst to me, prior to the breakup CB and my father had been seeing R together for couple’s counseling at the same time that R was supposed to be my therapist.
And that’s just the tip of the yikesburg . Apparently R also met with CB one-on-one multiple times and gossiped about the situation, including that R liked my father more than my mother because she could control and manipulate my father.
R also told CB about having told me that no other therapist would put up with me. I hadn’t told anyone that R had said that (tbh I felt ashamed of it, like it was my fault).
My mom told her lawyer, who told the judge, and R was blackballed (a lot of her business was because she was one of 2 therapists in town willing to testify in divorces). This was the reason she retired shortly thereafter.

I’ve harbored a lot of resentment towards her for many years, even before finding out about the stuff CB told my mom. She was supposed to be the one adult I could trust, but instead she enabled my father’s abuse, damaged my relationship with my mom, and reinforced a lot of my negative thoughts about myself. It doesn't help to dwell on "what ifs," but I can't help but imagine how much of a positive difference it could have made in my adolescence and development if I'd been working with a competent therapist instead.
I’ve dabbled in therapy in years since, but never fully committed to it. Now I’m ready to really try. I got a referral from my pdoc to a psychologist a few months ago, and I think he's a good match for what I need. I’ve seen a lot of different Ts, so this isn’t just picking the first one or the one I like the most.
Now that we’ve started to do work things are starting to come up. It’s like opening Pandora’s box, which requires trust and faith that he will be able to handle it and that he knows what he's doing.
We’ve reached a point where we’re getting to my deepest underlying feelings of shame. If he were to “reject” me now, it would hurt, but I would be able to recover. If I take this leap of faith and fully expose myself (no, not like that) and he confirms that I am shameful, pathetic, unworthy, and weak, I don’t think I could bring myself to ever completely expose myself like that again; it would kill that last teeny tiny bit of hope that maybe I am not actually deeply, irredeemably wrong.
So I’m scared. And I think some of it is an appropriate level of caution, but some of it is also my experience with R.

Every few years I google her. I know from her facebook that she’s retired, remarried, and raising chickens in a state hundreds of miles away.
I want to write to her to try to get closure. She’s in her 70s now, and I’m worried that if she died and I never tried to contact her I’ll spend the rest of my life wishing I had at least tried to get answers... why she did what she did, whether she’s sorry, whether she regrets it...
I don’t know if this is actually a terrible idea though. Would I be able to handle it if she wouldn’t fully acknowledge her wrongdoing, denied that it happened, or acted like it was my own fault? Would making an old woman feel bad about something she did 10 years ago and can’t undo actually bring me any closure? Would understanding why she did it change anything? Would her penitence bring me any satisfaction or relief?

I told my therapist the basic backstory about R during my first appointment, but it hasn’t come up since. To be honest, it’s not something I want to waste my weekly hour on. Yes, it’s significant, but there are much larger issues that I’d rather focus on. And tbh there’s part of me that worries that he’s going to doubt me because it definitely sounds like a story distorted and exaggerated by someone with a victim complex.

If you made it this far, thank you for reading.
Any thoughts/advice/feedback would be much appreciated.

I do not think such an unethical and harmful therapist would own up and take responsibility, sadly.

I think it's good that you've thought about the pros and cons of contacting her. Are you really prepared for the consequences of a negative response, though? That's only for you to say. What positive would you hope for? Does whatever you hope you get out of it outweigh the likely negative consequences?

I want to address something else, though. You say that you don't want to waste your time or money discussing R in your current therapy. I get that. Yet you also say that if you decide to open up to your current therapist and it doesn't go the way you want it to, then you'll likely never open up again. Without going into my whole backstory, one of the things I'm working on in therapy right now is building trust with a new therapist due to the actions of an old one. I said almost verbatim you my new therapist what you said about R. So I'll pose to you the question my therapist posed to me: "do you really think trust is going to be a small part of your work?"

I don't suppose to know everything about you, but I would, if I were you, consider what your goals in therapy are. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.

[Myrto]

No wonder you're scared considering what a ****ing nutcase your ex therapist was. I'm so sorry. As for closure, I completely understand why you would want to contact her but do you really think that such an awful and crazy person would ever apologize or own up to what she did? It's extremely likely that she would either not respond or simply try to gaslight you by claiming that she was right about the fact that no other therapist would put up with you. In my opinion and experience having been terminated by a therapist and with no closure at all, I think the best thing you can do is to live a great life. I get that it is easy to say that. But I would worry that contacting her again would give your ex therapist power and control over you. Although perhaps contacting her (without expecting an apology) would in fact allow you to move on? Obviously it's up to you. I would simply advise you not to expect too much from this horrible person. Good luck.

I'm not sure I have much for advice other than this is maybe something that would help grow some trust in your current T. I know you said you don't want to waste your hour on it and you are afraid that he won't believe you... in my experience, sometimes the things I don't want to talk about are what I need to talk about the most. I would bring it up with him and even warn him of your fears and reluctance beforehand.... that sometimes helps me. Personally, I would not contact ex-T for closure. I feel like that is just giving her the power to hurt you all over again. Sometimes I write letters to people without sending them. It helps me get the feelings out but I don't have to make myself vulnerable. You could try that and even bring that to your T if you decided you wanted to talk about it. Best of luck to you!

[lucozader]

I'm so sorry you went through that... it's terrible that someone who was supposed to be helping you would behave in that way.

I'm not surprised that you still have a lot of feelings about what happened, but I agree with some other responses here that someone who treated you so terribly is unlikely to give you the closure that you feel you need, and may well end up hurting you further instead.

If you come to the conclusion that it's just about expressing what you need to express, and the content of her response (or lack of) won't matter then sure, go for it... But if you feel you need a particular response from her I think that's a big risk. She hasn't behaved reasonably or kindly in the past and I wouldn't expect her to now.

I do think it's worth trying to process some of your feelings and thoughts about it with your current therapist... Speaking as someone who is trying to do similar (work through my feelings about a previous therapist with a new one)

[JaneTennison1]

Don't look the person who hurt you, to heal you.I am all for closure and am all for detailing what someone did wrong, but if her response or lack of it, would cause you further harm then don't do it.

It doesn't sound like any of the adults in this part of your childhood were behaving like compassionate and responsible adults. Of course, this includes your ex-therapist, but it doesn't sound to me like she is the only potential source of closure. Perhaps you need resolution regarding the whole experience and your ex-therapist has become an easy hook on which to try and peg the closure. Seems a risky peg to me and I think you will find greater healing elsewhere.

[stopdog]

Could you accept sending the letter and not getting any response?

[maybeblue]

That is really tough. I can see the delima. I can absolutely understand how you would still be hurting over this. Honestly, it could very well affect your relationship with your current therapist. Eventually you might have to go into it with him. I doubt he will think that you are making it up or exaggerating. Why would you?

As far as should you try to contact this therapist? I don't know. I think it's very unlikely that she will apologize or even acknowledge to herself that she did something wrong. So you would have to be ok with no response or a negative one. Would writing a letter to her, but not sending it yet work? Maybe reading it to your current therapist? But I do think that you should base your decision on what you think will help you feel better...not on her being an old lady who can't change what happened. If you think you will feel better by sending it, then send it.

[LabRat27]

Originally Posted by daisydid

I think it's good that you've thought about the pros and cons of contacting her. Are you really prepared for the consequences of a negative response, though? That's only for you to say. What positive would you hope for? Does whatever you hope you get out of it outweigh the likely negative consequences?

I want to address something else, though. You say that you don't want to waste your time or money discussing R in your current therapy. I get that. Yet you also say that if you decide to open up to your current therapist and it doesn't go the way you want it to, then you'll likely never open up again. Without going into my whole backstory, one of the things I'm working on in therapy right now is building trust with a new therapist due to the actions of an old one. I said almost verbatim you my new therapist what you said about R. So I'll pose to you the question my therapist posed to me: "do you really think trust is going to be a small part of your work?"

I don't suppose to know everything about you, but I would, if I were you, consider what your goals in therapy are. Best of luck to you in whatever you decide.

Thank you.
I think, all else being equal, it's something I'd want to wait to do until I was completely sure. But there's also kind of a time constraint with an unknown deadline. She's in her 70s. If she dies or has cognitive decline, I will have missed my chance.
I totally get what you're saying about trust and I agree. I plan you have a very direct convo with my therapist (maybe write a letter) and make it clear what's at stake, and that if he isn't completely sure he can handle it then it would be best for both of us if he referred me to someone else now rather than later.
My trust issues are a lot deeper than this incident though. It's kind of a red herring. I'm not worried he's going to gossip about me with someone else. It's a fear of judgement or rejection that goes a lot deeper.

And thank you everyone for pointing out that I'm probably not going to get the response I'm hoping for. That's something I needed to hear.
I think maybe I want to do this to establish that she no longer holds the same power over me. I'm not a naïve vulnerable 13 year old child anymore. Confronting her would be claiming my power back. We never had a confrontation. I want to stand up for myself, tell her that what she did was wrong, and that I'm strong enough now to know that and be able to stand up for myself.

[LabRat27]

Originally Posted by long_gone

It doesn't sound like any of the adults in this part of your childhood were behaving like compassionate and responsible adults. Of course, this includes your ex-therapist, but it doesn't sound to me like she is the only potential source of closure. Perhaps you need resolution regarding the whole experience and your ex-therapist has become an easy hook on which to try and peg the closure. Seems a risky peg to me and I think you will find greater healing elsewhere.

I understand your point and how it could appear that way, but I'm not obsessing about her or making her the target for all of my hurt. I know a lot of adults acted badly. My mom and I have had a lot of difficult conversations, and I understand why she behaved the way she did and that she's human, and she understands how she hurt me and deeply regrets it. It definitely still affects me, but I have some closure there, and it's actually something my therapist and I have been talking about.
Closure with my father isn't going to happen, but I've spent plenty of time talking about him in therapy as well.
I have resentment and anger towards the judge, my guardian ad litem, and CB among others, but I don't feel that doing anything about it other than maybe a no send letter would be productive (and I've written several of those).
Basically, closure and resolution regarding my parents' divorce and the behavior of adults in my life at that time is not going to happen. There are too many pieces. But my ex therapist is one of those many pieces, and it would be nice to get a bit of closure on that one.

She's on my mind because I'm trying therapy again. But she's not someone I've obsessed over. She occurs to me every once in a while, and I've googled her once every few years and briefly considered contacting her like I'm considering now. I don't think all my trauma would be resolved or that I'd get some magical degree of closure if she apologized.

[JaneTennison1]

If it helps you to tell her off then do it. Get it out and don't wait for the perfect moment. I advise against it if there is some response you need from her. She sounds unlikely to be useful In anyway

[missbella]

LR, you describe such a nightmare at a young age. Thank goodness that you eventually learned some of the story behind the story and can put pieces together.

As an adult I had a therapist team who bullied and insulted me when I wanted to leave group therapy. I could only muster the strength to file a complaint years later. The complaint against the psych social worker was dismissed without a hearing. However, I was able to read the rebuttal to the psychologist's complaint. He pretended to mind read and blamed all conflict on me, describing me in the most dire terms. He'd learned nothing given the perspective of years.

In my experience, grown up wrap bullies themselves in sanctimony and use their armaments throughout their lives. They became bullies initially because antagonism and intimidation were the sole tools they have to relate to others. Unfortunately unethical therapists' behavior can be reinforced by their training and credentials, so they might feel a hallowed privilege to insult-label others who challenge their behavior.

So if you write her I'd advise only doing it if you can withstand any response from the best to redoubling her vitriol and gaslighting. That said, if the latter occurs, you can see it as her showing her stripes with the benefit of your older perspective. (I began my blog after realizing that I'd personally receive more understanding talking to peers than I would from professionals.)

I did have one outcome from contacting an "authority" who hurt me. A teacher of a drop-in dance class embarrassed me in front of the class, and I wrote her. For some reason the school didn't give her the note for a month, but she called me once she received it. We compared the event from her perspective and mine, and she apologized. Though the humiliation still stung for a while, my long term memory now is of the conciliatory conversation.

May your perspective and strength continue to grow. I've found for every troll there are many others along the path who help, and I hope you will find the same.

[LabRat27]

I think I'm going to do it. Tbh I'd probably already decided I was going to do it before posting this thread. I hate uncertainty and not knowing, and I have a tendency to want to rip the bandaid off.
I'd be sending the message via Facebook. What do you guys think about this?

"Hi R,

I'd ask if you remember me, but I'm sure you do. I'm an independent adult now, 23 and working on my PhD. I even have my own cat.
There have been times over the years when I have considered writing to you, confronting you as an adult speaking on behalf of the 13-14 year old child that you knew, seeking some degree of closure.
I decided to wait though, until I could be sure I was doing it for the right reasons, not out of resentment or the need to hear any specific answer, and that I was in a place where I could choose whether or not to let your response have any power over me.

So here it is: a decade later, do you have anything to say to me?"

I don't want to put her in the position of power in this exchange by sounding like I need anything from her. I want it to be clear that I don't need her validation. I also want to leave it open ended to see how she views her role in the situation. I'm giving her the opportunity to apologize, not asking for her apology.

[missbella]

I wish I had your powers of perception when I was 23. My hunch is you were an extremely bright kid 10 years ago that maybe even unbalanced some adults, particularly if they weren't as bright.

My harmful therapy might have been among the best-worst things that ever happened to me. Worst is for obvious reasons. Best, is because it gave me a birds-eye view of human failings, even people who hang a shingle claiming to be experts. Some of my internet compadres report similar experiences.

I was 20+ years older when I received my hard-knock lesson at two therapists' hands. It hurt like hell, but held many silver linings. I continue to understand the layers of the event in new ways. Best with studies. I'm confident your insights and perspective will serve you well.

[LabRat27]

I sent it. Well, a slightly modified version from the one I posted. Tbh I'm proud of myself for taking time to decide to actually send it rather than just doing it impulsively. Progress.

Hi R,

I'd ask if you remember me, but I'm sure you do. I'm an independent adult now, 23 and working on my PhD. I even have my own cat.
There have been times over the years when I have considered writing to you, asking the questions that I still don't have the answers to so that I could try to understand, confronting you as an adult speaking on behalf of the 13-14 year old child that you knew, seeking some degree of closure.
I decided to wait though, until I could be sure I was doing it for the right reasons—not out of resentment or the need to hear any specific answer—and that I was in a place where I was strong enough that I could choose whether or not to let your response have any power over me.

So here it is: a decade later, do you have anything to say to me?

So now I wait. Who knows, maybe I won't even get a response.