[here today]

My last therapist, and a string of other therapists before her, hurt and disappointed me.

Hatred, as a feeling, keeps me (safely) away from them now. And although I would still like some "help" of some sort or some better ways and attitudes to approach life, my rational mind, too, is pretty well convinced at this point that more therapy is not for me.

I feel very betrayed by the trust I placed in therapists and the institution/profession in general. I definitely feel that trust was unwise, overly idealistic perhaps, but I didn't know that at the time and therapists did not help me with that blind spot. Lots of wasted time, did not help my life.

I have given up the belief that my therapists and the profession in general are capable of hearing or caring. Hence I'm not feeling vengeful much any more. No point in trying to communicate with people who can't hear. Just, for me, stay away from them.

Wish I had a better way to deal with this and some better perspective. But one that does not invalidate or deny the hurt and harm I have experienced, because those are very real. I can numb out and be pollyanna, I learned that as a child. That's one way of dealing with and getting rid of hate. Also fear. But that is not real and hence got me in lots of trouble, including probably the inability to see problems and red flags in therapy.

Any ideas?

[SarahSweden]

I´m sorry you´re feeling this way. I know a lot of trying to get help eventually turns into anger and disappointment towards those who are supposed to help. I can relate to that, I´ve met with several contacts who weren´t helpful at all.

Do you look for support on specific issues or more specifically diagnoses?

If you´re more after someone who cares and listens perhaps you could contact a church and talk to a priest or a counsellor there? Not to talk about religion per se but people in church aren´t that tied to specific methods and could perhaps be more caring towards you. Also, at least where I live, all such counselling is free and you then don´t have to invest a lot of money to get som support.

Originally Posted by here today

My last therapist, and a string of other therapists before her, hurt and disappointed me.

Hatred, as a feeling, keeps me (safely) away from them now. And although I would still like some "help" of some sort or some better ways and attitudes to approach life, my rational mind, too, is pretty well convinced at this point that more therapy is not for me.

I feel very betrayed by the trust I placed in therapists and the institution/profession in general. I definitely feel that trust was unwise, overly idealistic perhaps, but I didn't know that at the time and therapists did not help me with that blind spot. Lots of wasted time, did not help my life.

I have given up the belief that my therapists and the profession in general are capable of hearing or caring. Hence I'm not feeling vengeful much any more. No point in trying to communicate with people who can't hear. Just, for me, stay away from them.

Wish I had a better way to deal with this and some better perspective. But one that does not invalidate or deny the hurt and harm I have experienced, because those are very real. I can numb out and be pollyanna, I learned that as a child. That's one way of dealing with and getting rid of hate. Also fear. But that is not real and hence got me in lots of trouble, including probably the inability to see problems and red flags in therapy.

Any ideas?

[InnerPeace111]

Learn how to become your own therapist?

[unaluna]

Any ideas for what? Stating the question brings you halfway to finding the answer.

[magicalprince]

I think it's understandable. I don't hate therapy but I do doubt the competence of most therapists. I haven't had any especially good experiences, the most productive things in therapy just involved pushing my comfort zone due to accidental consequences of the relationship and not something the therapist did (or handled well.)

Definitely made me turn down the idealism a notch, I guess.

My thought is keep trying to find what works for you. At least you've figured out one thing that doesn't, right? You can at least be proud that you tried. Keep trying new things. You will find something eventually.

[missbella]

Hi HT. For me there are two, maybe three separate pieces of this.

The first is feeling personally scammed and conned by therapists. Over the years I've explore this a great deal, mostly needing to forgive myself for handing therapists the weapon of my vulnerability. I decided that I can be wiser, but as a human I'll likely never immunize myself completely from being fooled.

The second piece is my critique of the wider system of therapy which I address in my blog and online discussions. It feels sisyphean, questioning so many assumptions that I see few in the field asking. Again, I've found some reading and a group of other consumers also on this journey.

The third piece or group of pieces are the problems that originally took me to therapy. I've had to accept there's no guru or strong man/woman who will help me. Some of my problems have improved with age and experience. Other characteristics about myself I've simply had to accept. I've found many methods that address soothing, spiritual fulfillment, equilibrium, etc.

In all, it's not the worst journey. In fact, maybe I prefer to be a inquirer rather than letting the assumed experts take the lead.

I would have similar question to unaluna's before anything else. What are your goals for improving your life, mental health, whatever? What specific areas/problems would like to work on in the present? I think defining at least some of those things would make it easier to come up with ideas and strategies, even to potentially bend the past to serve a better 'here today'

[here today]

'

Originally Posted by unaluna

Any ideas for what? Stating the question brings you halfway to finding the answer.

Thanks. As I wrote in my OP, "I would still like some 'help' of some sort or some better ways and attitudes to approach life".

So, ideas for better ways and attitudes to approach life.

Thanks for responding, and in line with your question. . .maybe/probably I don't have to ask (my peers) directly. If/when I can just get outside myself a little I can look around and see what people are doing that looks interesting, possibly helpful or effective, etc. That is, I'm different and unique, like everybody, but not that different. That was very clear to me at an in-person support group meeting a couple of days ago. And, in the midst of all this horrible struggle over the last several/many years, I AM doing better at loosening the hypervigilance and getting outside myself some.

Thanks for posting and asking the question.

[unaluna]

Are you up to date on Childhood Emotional Neglect? I'm asking because there were a few books that filled in a lot of blanks for me. I dont recall if this was an issue for you in your family of origin as it was for me, but what made it difficult to deal with in therapy was that - i didnt know what i didnt know. But there were big parts missing, and i think ts didnt know why or even that those parts were missing. All of a sudden this got vague! But the CEN literature helped me thru it, literally issue by issue.

Eta - hey, we cross posted!

Eta - nobody on pc likes the CEN books i suggested. They all buried them in their backyards, just fyi.

[here today]

Many thanks, folks.

Originally Posted by magicalprince

. . .
My thought is keep trying to find what works for you. At least you've figured out one thing that doesn't, right? You can at least be proud that you tried. Keep trying new things. You will find something eventually.

Originally Posted by missbella

. . .
In all, it's not the worst journey. In fact, maybe I prefer to be a inquirer rather than letting the assumed experts take the lead.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

. . .What specific areas/problems would like to work on in the present? I think defining at least some of those things would make it easier to come up with ideas and strategies, even to potentially bend the past to serve a better 'here today'

Thanks for your support. Asking for that is still kind of new behavior for me, a needed new behavior. Thanks so much for responding. It helps a lot toward contradicting my internal conviction that nobody will.

It's probably time to let my therapy journey go. I don't like feeing hatred -- it doesn't feel good inside, doesn't make me a pleasant person to be around, etc. But I haven't wanted to let go of it, either, because I kept wanting "help" or something but didn't want to try therapy again after all the hurt, scam, etc.

I still want to speak out occasionally, though -- part of being a member of the larger society, I feel. And my experience, like that of others I've found on the internet, showed up lots of problems with the institution that haven't been looked at closely. I'm an independent inquirer at heart, too.

The journey took too long and was much too difficult, I believe. But it's done. My grown kids are doing OK. Don't need me, need more for me to have my own life.

So -- look around, see what people are doing for fun and for purposes that are worthwhile and keep trying to get onboard with some of that. Guess that's a start on an idea for the next part of life.

[here today]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Are you up to date on Childhood Emotional Neglect? I'm asking because there were a few books that filled in a lot of blanks for me. I dont recall if this was an issue for you in your family of origin as it was for me, but what made it difficult to deal with in therapy was that - i didnt know what i didnt know. But there were big parts missing, and i think ts didnt know why or even that those parts were missing. All of a sudden this got vague! But the CEN literature helped me thru it, literally issue by issue.

Eta - hey, we cross posted!

I think getting in touch with my feelings of being rejected and abandoned kind of did that for me. I'd read stuff like that but it never connected well emotionally -- until I was near devastated by my last T's rejection and 6 months later the feeling dots connected up.

I think now I needed a T to work out my negative transference with, not a positive one, and never found it. But since the negativity was mostly numbed out, it wasn't something I could interview potential T's ahead of time about.

Hi here today-
I think injustices are some of the most difficult things to come to terms with.

Not to dismiss you, but I wonder if instead of hatred, your mind now has ingrained patterns of renumerating over your experience and so now it has grown. Do you think you've ingrained this issue into your thinking and are keeping it 'alive' by coming here and immersing yourself in therapy, trauma related ideas, discussions, themes, books and articles?

If I recall, your kids are grown and you are a widow. My suggestion, which I know is easier said than done, is to join the Peace Corp. to regain purpose and retrain your brain to an outward focus rather than inward. Get out of the alternate therapy world while you can. A habit is easy to form, hard to break.

Peace Corps Requirements | Chron.com

https://www.peacecorps.gov/volunteer/

Also, if I'm not mistaken there are many young people joining in their late teens or early 20s. Sometimes it's refreshing to work around youth- all idealistic and all. A group who is not yet jaded, spirited to believe they can change the world.

Go overseas for a volunteer assignment for a year, come back, and see if you adopt a new mindset. If a year sounds long, look at it this way-if you don't do it, would you be in the same place a year from now?

You may become part of a close knit group. I imagine living together like that on a mission builds long term connections and kinship with others.

Here's another resource and example-

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) - Volunteers take part in research, observation and educational roles that benefit science and the planet.

https://www.usa.gov/volunteer

[here today]

Yes, thanks Rayne. There was a time when I needed to focus on this stuff, I think, but that time has now passed. It's really helpful to have you reflect back to me that I don't come across to you as nearing dementia or still overwhelmed with emotional and social skills problems. I was for awhile and had to take that into account in my assessment of what I was capable of doing. But I got some positive feedback the other day in a continuing ed. class I'm taking, too, and so maybe I do need to move on and see what/If I can do before old age really does overtake me. Thanks for the ideas.

[cool09]

Therapists and psychologists never questioned me to find one of my core problems (or really any of my problems). I had to google the symptoms to figure it out myself. Now I can ask a therapist or specialist on how to fix it.

Personally, I don't hate therapists but I don't trust them, my experiences are that none of them care and are in it for the money.

(((((here today)))))

We're all here to listen to you when you need to vent

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by here today

It's probably time to let my therapy journey go. I don't like feeing hatred -- it doesn't feel good inside, doesn't make me a pleasant person to be around, etc. But I haven't wanted to let go of it, either, because I kept wanting "help" or something but didn't want to try therapy again after all the hurt, scam, etc.

I still want to speak out occasionally, though -- part of being a member of the larger society, I feel. And my experience, like that of others I've found on the internet, showed up lots of problems with the institution that haven't been looked at closely. I'm an independent inquirer at heart, too.

. . .

So -- look around, see what people are doing for fun and for purposes that are worthwhile and keep trying to get onboard with some of that. Guess that's a start on an idea for the next part of life.

Someone wise once said that you have to hold onto something before you can let it go. IME letting go is not a singular moment but a more gradual and perhaps less intentional process.

I was surprised the other day when I talked to someone who treated me badly about 4 years ago. I didn't really want to talk to her but she called. The feelings are not very intense, I'm more irked than I am angry. I thought I'd "let go" and there have been many things that I've done, including kind actions towards her, that have not yet cured it completely. Maybe it's a myth that we let go all together.

It sounds like maybe this is less about letting go than moving on to the next part of life, find activities and things to do (including being an outspoken advocate), rebuilding your life and living it in ways that satisfy you. To the extent that letting go of your hatred and what not assists you in this, sounds like this is a good thing. I'm not totally convinced that being completely okay with any kind of mistreatment is what we're striving towards. But getting it out of the way in the service of life better lived, yes indeed.

[here today]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Someone wise once said that you have to hold onto something before you can let it go. . .

I hadn't heard this before and it does sound wise.

I learned early on to distance from or cut off hatred in general, because it wasn't "nice". (Turning hate against myself was another way of dealing with it that didn't "show" very much.) And being nice was the most important thing in the world, almost.

So, yes, I think, too, that it has been important for me to be able to hold onto this, first. Thanks.

[amicus_curiae]

This year has seen the 33rd-year anniversary of my continued psychiatric and psychotherapy treatments. I’ve had great shrinks and therapists and sucky shrinks and therapists. One genuine abuser in the lot but, all things considered, the majority have been kind and caring and humane. We always add, ‘and human,’ so that we rightfully keep in mind that not one of these professionals is without foibles.

I’m so very sorry that your experiences have pained you so. I cannot imagine what sort of pain you must have endured to come to hate the people and methods entrusted to help with disorders of the mind. Do you think that you might become suspect of physical doctors as well? Enough to say that they have damaged you so badly so as to hate their profession and practice? I think that I could make a better case for the latter, looking down at my scarred torso, my short stumps where I once had legs. That larger scar where my heart was removed, the ICD ‘bump.’

Argh. My cardiologist is right — I could eat grass and I would still be genetically predisposed to having high cholesterol. I can’t blame all thoracic surgeons.

***whistle as the wind blow***

[Ididitmyway]

As someone here said, I don't hate therapists, but I do mistrust them. And I mistrust them not because I think they are horrible people who are out there to "get me" (to exploit me or hurt me intentionally), but because they are part of the oppressive system that hurts people by design, because that system doesn't offer the training that teaches professionals to deal with realities of human suffering, because many therapy methods are based on speculative theories that are not backed by any serious scientific research.

So, I don't hate therapists as much as I hate the system that "breeds" them and the ignorance that keeps it going. I am saying this being a therapist myself (though not a currently practicing therapist).

That said, I do continue to hate individual therapists who personally hurt me regardless of their intentions. That hatred, however, comes and goes. I don't carry it in me all the time.

I've never cared about being "nice". I was fortunate enough not to be "programmed" to suppress my anger for the sake of being nice to others. My parents did invalidate my feelings though but in a different way. I was just told that it was silly to be upset or angry about things that didn't seem upsetting to them. But I overcame that program long time ago. So, I have no inner restrains to feeling anything. I allow myself to feel absolutely anything, no matter how dark, as fully as possible. For me this is the only way to release the feeling when it wants to go. It doesn't get released until it's fully felt. So, this is my way of letting go.

Sure, I feel the toxicity of hatred (often though it's not hatred but intense pain), and I fully realize that, in those moments, I should not be around people because they'd feel the toxicity coming from me, and so I am not around people in those moments. That's why I spend most time in solitude allowing myself to process whatever I need to process as long as I need it. Then, when the darkness disappears and the sun rises, I am ready to be "social" again.

So, I go with the flow. Just like you'd ride the wave. If you happen to be in a small boat during storm, you won't even think of trying to fight the waves. You would know instinctively that your only chance to survive is to surrender to the waves completely and to simply try to adjust your body movement to the movement of the stormy water in order to stay afloat.

The same with feelings. You can't force yourself to let go of them. They will go when they want to go, not when you want them to go. And, in my experience, they never leave if they see that you are not okay with them and that they are not welcome. Before they leave you they need to know that they are fully accepted by you, that they are fully allowed in your space, that you don't judge them. It's like a hurting person inside of you. She will never leave until you listen to her as much as she needs you to. We all do that. We calm down when we feel fully validated and accepted and then we don't need any more attention..until the next time we start hurting..and then we need another round of acceptance and validation..and so it goes in waves..

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

...It's like a hurting person inside of you. She will never leave until you listen to her as much as she needs you to. We all do that. We calm down when we feel fully validated and accepted and then we don't need any more attention..until the next time we start hurting..and then we need another round of acceptance and validation..and so it goes in waves..

Except that now we (almost) all have caller-id and can see who is calling and decide whether or not to pick up. The last time she called, i let it go to voice mail. I didnt have the time or energy to let her stop my life yet another time and for me to try to restart it again afterwards. You dont HAVE to let her in. Its YOUR house.

[HD7970GHZ]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

As someone here said, I don't hate therapists, but I do mistrust them. And I mistrust them not because I think they are horrible people who are out there to "get me" (to exploit me or hurt me intentionally), but because they are part of the oppressive system that hurts people by design, because that system doesn't offer the training that teaches professionals to deal with realities of human suffering, because many therapy methods are based on speculative theories that are not backed by any serious scientific research.

So, I don't hate therapists as much as I hate the system that "breeds" them and the ignorance that keeps it going. I am saying this being a therapist myself (though not a currently practicing therapist).

I just want to say this is extremely insightful and I agree with you wholeheartedly. It is nice to hear someone else validate this issue.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

[HD7970GHZ]

Hi Here Today,

I empathize greatly with you. They have failed you and that is NOT fair. What a travesty. This is quite common and it is good to see a discussion taking place! Therapy is supposed to be safe, instead it affords all the power to a fallible human being which, as we know, is the prerequisite for abusive relationships. As I said MANY times in my own thread, "NOT ALL THERAPISTS ARE BAD," but that does not mean we should not inform ourselves so that if and when we run into one, we can protect ourselves.

Therapist abuse hurts on a much deeper level than a typical relationship. They have abused their privilege to act as our most intimate confidant whose behavior and words can literally mold our brain... We are so so vulnerable and maleable. I am heartbroken how big this topic is and I cannot wait until it gets the spotlight it deserves.

My heart goes out to everyone who has been hurt in therapy as the damage is profound.

Thanks,
HD7970ghz

I

[here today]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Except that now we (almost) all have caller-id and can see who is calling and decide whether or not to pick up. The last time she called, i let it go to voice mail. I didnt have the time or energy to let her stop my life yet another time and for me to try to restart it again afterwards. You dont HAVE to let her in. Its YOUR house.

For me, I never listened to her at all, for many years. Message didn't even go to voicemail. I could kind of tell who was calling and knew (was taught) early on in my life never to pick up the phone.

Problem was, I never got the messages. And there were messages, social nuance kind of things, it's hard to explain. Stuff probably most people know more or less instinctively, and I "knew" instinctively, too, but that knowledge didn't make it to consciousness.

Therapists told me early on to "get in touch" with my feelings. And then, as I "worked hard" and did try to learn to allow her through, she "acted out" sometimes. I didn't have an answering machine for her. Just an off/on switch.

So I would allow her "on" in therapy. And the therapists shamed me for her "abusive" behavior, which occurred sometimes (apart from a haughty attitude, the worst I ever did was call one b**h") when I was frustrated out the wazoo because the therapist wasn't "getting me" or I wasn't "getting" her. I could have kept her shut "off" for the sake of social approvability. But it was "therapy", I thought, and I let her "on", and then the therapist decides that she doesn't "have the emotional resources" to continue therapy with me??? A trauma and dissociation specialist. Ph.D and trauma post-doc. SIX YEARS into the therapy!? Many, many years with other therapists before her.

It still seems to me like horrible incompetence and/or ignorance. But the way I read the ethics guidelines, it doesn't seem to me very likely that the licensing board would agree.

Hence the intense hatred -- stay away from those folks!

OK, Ididitmyway has a good point, it's the institution, mostly, and the bad practices and procedures and lack of knowledge and science, etc., etc.

[BudFox]

I don't hate anyone, therapists included. I do have endless contempt for therapists as a group though, because they sell contrived relationships that seem often full of dysfunction, and then have the nerve/lack of awareness to claim they are models to the rest of society. My god.

Ideas... dunno, speaking truth to power?

[here today]

Originally Posted by BudFox

. . .
Ideas... dunno, speaking truth to power?

I would like to try to do that. I try and have tried, in the limited ways I could so far. But when power isn't listening, it takes something to get their attention, doesn't it?

Toward that end, I think there needs to be a new advocacy organization to address bad and ineffective therapy from the client/consumer side. That requires more talent, know-how, and vision than I currently have to start it up. But it's an idea whose time has come I believe, so if I don't/can't do it I can and will add my effort to whoever does, if that opportunity comes before I die.