Finding out there is offender working in T office

Sarabethlynn · 11:52 AM

I put a trigger on this not because of any certain graphic phrases, but just the concept of what I ran into with this T might trigger?

My T (who I fired for this), owns his own small practice. It is a suite of about 6 rooms in a corner of an office building. Something occurred in another part of the building that alarmed me, and I decided to check the registry and see if there were any offenders as listed as working in that building. To my horror, one was listed as working in my T suite and listed as working for the name of my T's therapy place. I immediately sent him a screen shot and asked if he does indeed employ this man. His crimes are child P distribution in such a sophisticated way the FBI did a write up on it. He's only been out of jail a short time. At first my T played dumb and said the picture is too blurry for him to recognize the person. However, it came to light that he did indeed know he had a man in his suite who was on the registry and on parole. He said he was renting one of the therapy rooms to him for him to work his business out of and get back on his feet and doing it as a favor for a friend.

I can't wrap my mind around this. I'm so vigilant, but it never NEVER occurred to me a T who advertises to PTSD/Dissociative/Trauma clients as a specialist would RENT a room in his small suite to a non-therapist AND to a convicted child s*x offender on parole. My T knew his situation. Is this even legal? I am so scared for other clients who go there having NO clue what they are being exposed to. If he would do this, what else would he do? Children are seen at this practice as well!

Mind blown by the horror in this world once again...

mcl6136 · May 09, 2018, 10:58 AM

Yes, my mind would be blown as well.

Did you press your T on this? What do you mean "it came to light?"

What occurred in another part of the building that was alarming?

I would be more flipped about my T crafting this agreement than anything else. As a favor to a friend? What friend needs this kind of favor from a T who specializes in trauma?

Good grief.

stopdog · May 09, 2018, 11:01 AM

I have a different outlook on this (I do have csa in my background). The guy did his time and now is trying to be a productive part of society. I actually do believe that it is unfair to let a conviction haunt someone for forever no matter what the crime. He is an in an office in a building-not a playground or nursery school. His simple presence there, unless he actually does something, is not hurting anyone. I really do not see this as a problem at all. In any way.

Ididitmyway · May 09, 2018, 11:26 AM

Yes, it is legal to employ and to rent spaces to people who are on parole and are former sex offenders or felons or who have committed any crime and served their term. So, I don't think you'll be able to take a legal action in this case.

But I do agree it was mindless of your therapist (to say the least) to rent out a room to this person. I'd have a serious talk with him about it and would also write about this in the online review of his practice so people would know who is in his office and made an informed choice about whether to see him or not.

SalingerEsme · May 09, 2018, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarabethlynn

I put a trigger on this not because of any certain graphic phrases, but just the concept of what I ran into with this T might trigger?

My T (who I fired for this), owns his own small practice. It is a suite of about 6 rooms in a corner of an office building. Something occurred in another part of the building that alarmed me, and I decided to check the registry and see if there were any offenders as listed as working in that building. To my horror, one was listed as working in my T suite and listed as working for the name of my T's therapy place. I immediately sent him a screen shot and asked if he does indeed employ this man. His crimes are child P distribution in such a sophisticated way the FBI did a write up on it. He's only been out of jail a short time. At first my T played dumb and said the picture is too blurry for him to recognize the person. However, it came to light that he did indeed know he had a man in his suite who was on the registry and on parole. He said he was renting one of the therapy rooms to him for him to work his business out of and get back on his feet and doing it as a favor for a friend.

I can't wrap my mind around this. I'm so vigilant, but it never NEVER occurred to me a T who advertises to PTSD/Dissociative/Trauma clients as a specialist would RENT a room in his small suite to a non-therapist AND to a convicted offender. It's in black and white in an email. My T knew his situation. Is this even legal? I am so scared for other clients who go there having NO clue what they are being exposed to. If he would do this, what else would he do? Children are seen at this practice as well!

Mind blown by the horror in this world once again...

I am so sorry, and it makes me wonder again if they only care about us in session ( or if they think they will be held responsible for something like HI or SI). I hope it isn't true, but it is hard for me to understand how someone can go into the abyss and pain of childhood violence with a victim, and in an hour work with a rape perpetrator, giving the same empathy and mirrorning to each. It actually makes sense in the abstract , until you form a relationship with a T that feels like a lifeline, that feels sincere. I especially hope no one in your T's building treats children, and if so that is a lawsuit waiting to happen. I would lose my faith in my T as well. I do understand the idea of time served and a clean slate, but in a helping environment with previously traumatized people?

Sarabethlynn · May 09, 2018, 11:34 AM

He is on the current list of offenders and on parole. Why if my T wanted to help could it not have been at any place other then a school, daycare, or place children and adults go to heal from abuse. I mean it is a mental health practice. The assumption is that the name of the company does what it says, it provides mental health services. It is not a room rental company to whoever that is completely unrelated to the business of mental health. I mean what about a pediatricians office renting out one of the rooms to a convinced person of child crimes on parole. Parents go there expecting the rooms to be used for pediatric related business, right? I'm not against offenders being allow to rent rooms, rebuild their lives, ect. I'm all for it, but not at places like schools, daycare centers, or medical/mental service places.

Sarabethlynn · May 09, 2018, 11:37 AM

Yes, they treat children

fille_folle · May 09, 2018, 12:05 PM

That's... wow... I can't even really find words. That's really shocking. If I try to see things from both sides, I'd wonder if perhaps your T has a problem overempathizing with victims or something. What I mean is that if this perpetrator was also a victim, perhaps your T (wrongly imo) excused his perpetrator behavior? I really don't know. It's sort of incomprehensible. I do know that many agencies treat both perpetrators and victims. I have worked for such an agency and it made me uncomfortable, but the professional ethics can make it hard to refuse to treat one group. Of course, that's a different situation. Anyway, I'm sorry your T did this. My trust would have been destroyed, too.

mcl6136 · May 09, 2018, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarabethlynn

I'm not against offenders being allow to rent rooms, rebuild their lives, ect. I'm all for it, but not at places like schools, daycare centers, or medical/mental service places.

I am also in favor of (anyone) rebuilding their lives. But not at places like schools, daycare centers, or places where clients with CSA are going to HEAL.

stopdog · May 09, 2018, 12:10 PM

How is it stopping anyone from "healing" or doing anything else with a therapist?
Why not look at it as way to learn to less afraid in the world where people of all sorts with different beliefs and moral structures and so on exist?
What is this guy doing just by being in the building someplace that is keeping anyone from doing whatever else it is they are doing with the therapist? It is not like he is in the office with the client and therapist. It does not even sound as though any client has even seen this guy.
I find the upsettedness that he simply exists quite puzzling. Would it matter if he was in the building next door? OR if someone else owned the building and rented an office to him? Why?

fille_folle · May 09, 2018, 12:14 PM

@SD I think it would feel very invalidating if one was a victim/survivor of CP or CSA to find out that one's T had employed a perpetrator of such. I can understand why it would bring up questions about the T's ability to empathise with the victim/survivor.

Ididitmyway · May 09, 2018, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarabethlynn

He is on the current list of offenders and on parole. Why if my T wanted to help could it not have been at any place other then a school, daycare, or place children and adults go to heal from abuse. I mean it is a mental health practice. The assumption is that the name of the company does what it says, it provides mental health services. It is not a room rental company to whoever that is completely unrelated to the business of mental health. I mean what about a pediatricians office renting out one of the rooms to a convinced person of child crimes on parole. Parents go there expecting the rooms to be used for pediatric related business, right? I'm not against offenders being allow to rent rooms, rebuild their lives, ect. I'm all for it, but not at places like schools, daycare centers, or medical/mental service places.

I agree with you completely that it is a horrible decision for any health practitioner to rent out a room to a registered offender. That's why it's important for you to confront your therapist about it and to let other people know about what's going on in his office in your online review.

But you are not going to be able to take any legal action to force that person (the offender) out of your therapist's office because it is legal for your therapist to rent a room out to them. This is just a fact. You may not like this fact but it's a fact. Legality and morality do not always go together. Some things that we perceive as immoral are still legal, and vice verse some things we may perceive as not immoral are illegal. That's just the nature of our legal system, like it or not. I am not saying that it's right and I am not saying that your outrage isn't valid. All I am saying is that you won't be able to change the fact that it is legal for your therapist to rent space to those types of people. So, focus on what you can do, which is to inform the public about the fact that there is a registered offender in your therapist's office, instead of getting upset about something you can't do anything about, which is the law that permits this situation to take place.

stopdog · May 09, 2018, 12:19 PM

I am one who has csa in my background and I don't see it that way at all. It brings up no such questions for me. I am just saying that while it can bring those things up, it does not have to do so. Is the guy an employee or just renting an office?
I think the whole sex offender registry after someone has served their sentence is immoral and unconstitutional (I realize courts disagree which is why we have it - I was part of the group of criminal defense attorneys who challenged it when it first started being created). I realize I am not in the current mainstream posse way of thinking on this.

mcl6136 · May 09, 2018, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stopdog

How is it stopping anyone from "healing"? What is this guy doing just by being in the building someplace that is keeping anyone from doing whatever else it is they are doing with the therapist? It is not like he is in the office with the client and therapist. I find this quite puzzling.

.

I sense that there is an underlying suspicion from you about the fact that "healing" is taking place -- am I correct? I mean, you do put "healing" in quotation marks. And yeah, I'm suspicious of the guy, even if he (I am making an assumption here) has paid his debt to society. That's just me.

Sarabethlynn · May 09, 2018, 12:25 PM

Why is there a required registry if such behavior once time served is inconsequencial? Why is there not a required registry for shop lifters? There was a need recognized by the US for protection of people. I have to be vulnerable to get good therapy done. Sometimes I'm dissociated after and wait ALONE in office till I can drive. I'm in far too vulnerable of a state to have to be on alert and able to protect myself. That's why folk on the registry have to stay away from schools and can't work as a therapist. I expect the person working in the next room to be cleared to be there to the same level as the therapists who work there. Well, now I dont. But I did.

stopdog · May 09, 2018, 12:25 PM

I have never seen therapy as a thing that can heal anything of any sort. I don't think the word itself fits with therapy.

stopdog · May 09, 2018, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarabethlynn

Why is there a required registry if such behavior once time served is inconsequencial? Why is there not a required registry for shop lifters? There was a need recognized by the US for protection of people. I have to be vulnerable to get good therapy done. Sometimes I'm dissociated after and wait ALONE in office till I can drive. I'm in far too vulnerable of a state to have to be on alert and able to protect myself. That's why folk on the registry have to stay away from schools and can't work as a therapist. I expect the person working in the next room to be cleared to be there to the same level as the therapists who work there. Well, now I dont. But I did.

There are all sorts of theories on this and the ones that won in court are not ones that I believe are based in rational thought or good jurisprudence. The same is true for a lot of law in all areas. But those of us challenging the registries lost and that is why they now exist.
Anyway I will bow out - I wish you well.

Sarabethlynn · May 09, 2018, 12:47 PM

Stopdog, I think we can only agree to disagree. I need support as for me this was very traumatizing. If you can't understand where I'm coming from, that's ok. You've given me food for thought. Thank you for your perspective. I don't want this thread to turn into a registry argument. I'm in too much pain over this to engage in that. Maybe a different thread can be for that?

I posted before how this t suggested I meet other clients so they could tell me how helpful and trustworthy he was so i could build trust faster, which seemed odd to me at best and I declined, twice. Now this....so I'm thinking that was a huge red flag I got before this latest revelation.

mcl6136 · May 09, 2018, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarabethlynn

Stopdog, I think we can only agree to disagree. I need support as for me this was very traumatizing. If you can't understand where I'm coming from, that's ok. You've given me food for thought. Thank you for your perspective. I don't want this thread to turn into a registry argument. I'm in too much pain over this to engage in that. Maybe a different thread can be for that?

I posted before how this t suggested I meet other clients so they could tell me how helpful and trustworthy he was so i could build trust faster, which seemed odd to me at best and I declined, twice. Now this....so I'm thinking that was a huge red flag I got before this latest revelation.

I did not put 2 and 2 together. This is the second instance of poor judgment (in my judgment) from this therapist. Are there positives to balance this out? Wow.

Sarabethlynn · May 09, 2018, 01:08 PM

I took into account WHY this guy is on the registry. He developed a new sophisticated way to hide the distribution of child porn to many, many . The FBI was proud of themselves for finally detecting this form of distribution and shutting it down. I was a victim of child p. Industry. He shows very calculated and long term efforts to be part of the industry. BUT even if it was less I expect a place of therapy to employ people related to the business of the practice. I expect background checks if they in any way advertise themselves as providing a safe, qualified environment for helping trauma victims heal. I guess my expectations were not realistic. Guess I have a new question to ask all my medical and mental health professionals, if I ever use any again. Maybe they could lie to me and say they don't rent out rooms to certain people. Can hospitals rent out rooms to whoever, I'm guessing so??

unaluna · May 09, 2018, 01:10 PM

I didnt make the connection at first, that this was the t that said "trust me". I google-browsed the law, i think the defining element is, is the place considered a "child safety zone"? It also said to contact his probation officer, which info i presume you could get from the registry.

I would agree, this is not a safe place for children. But we already told you we thought this t was iffy. Where did he get his degree from, and what is it?

feralkittymom · May 09, 2018, 01:20 PM

This whole situation completely blows me away. The "just trust me" T we find has chosen--out of all the other available opportunities--to rent out a room in his private office suite to a convicted sex offender. I'm sure it's not illegal for him to do so--but that doesn't mean it isn't a parole violation for the offender to be there. My understanding of such parole arrangements is that the parolee must not live, work, or pursue leisure activities within a certain proximity of a public place where it could be reasonably assumed children would be.

I would definitely contact the local jurisdictional office of corrections to inquire about this. And regardless of their answer, I would definitely report this behavior of this T to the state licensing board :not as a complaint, because you have suffered no direct harm, but as a letter of concern because it is indicative of poor judgment by putting clients in a position of preventable possible harm. There are all kinds of morals clauses in professional organizations like APA (assuming he's affiliated) that, rightly or wrongly, dictate standards of behavior that are far stricter than a legal standard.

In principle, I agree with SD as far as the Constitutionality of such registries; but as a practical matter of balancing individual freedoms vs public safety, the reality is that recidivism among sex offenders is exceedingly high. A T should be expected to act prudently enough to avoid such a potential for harm.

I'm really sorry you have had your sense of safety shaken by this--but very glad that you have left this T!

mcl6136 · 02:06 PM

I worked for many years as a fundraiser at an animal shelter and we held a summer's worth of sessions with kids called Pet Pal's kids camp and we did extensive background checks before allowing someone to even volunteer.

We turned potential camp counselors away when there was even a whiff of a problem. We had people apply for these jobs who had been violent with children and with animals. The two violations seem to go hand in hand...Was it a problem for these people, trying to proceed with their lives? Yes, it was. But the risk of potential liability was just to much. It would have broken the non-profit's ability to earn the trust of donors and the public permanently.

If a dog pound in a small town can get this right, I'm thinking: so can this *&&&& therapist.

And the constitutional implications/loss of civil rights for an individual convicted of crimes against children don't really keep me up at night.