[Fuzzybear]

I was in therapy for too long with someone who was too inexperienced ... (and not exactly kind (or even “accurate” ) far too often..).

If I had been in extensive analysis beforehand, maybe I would have done “better” with this therapist. I wouldn’t ever have been “unendearing” or if I was, I wouldn’t have been so hurt by his anger and indifference. As I would have already “diagnosed” him and expected these hurtful feelings and behaviours

I have consulted other therapists. Trust is a big issue for me ...

I was wondering if people think that anger from a therapist is “acceptable”? Is it a necessary part of the “process” sometimes?

(I rejected another therapist who said that she would be angry with me... that
“anger is a part of relationships”. Also I didn’t feel a bond with this therapist, even after many months)

[atisketatasket]

Anger from a therapist acceptable? If I did something like trash their office, yes.

Just in the normal process of therapy, no. It could be worked through but I don’t think it’s professional.

[circlesincircles]

I could understand frustration. But anger seems too intense. Of course anger happens in relationships, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for a therapist to express.

Apart from the anger, I'm sorry that you felt like you had to be endearing for your therapist not to be angry.

[fille_folle]

Depends. I would expect a T to be angry at me if I tried to SU without reaching out or something.

[ChickenNoodleSoup]

I think anger is part of a healthy relationship. Nobody is always happy with the other person. That would not be normal. But I think there's way to express it in a healthy manner, and there's a way to not do that. It would not be okay for a therapist to yell at me, to shame me or similar things. But it's okay if they tell me for example in a session following one where I made them angry that this happened, why it happened and so on.


I especially think so because anger is sometimes not expressed by people in the rest of our lives. If it is expressed in some place, it shows that a) it's okay to express anger and b) it doesn't need to destroy everything. And c) you can learn what about you might make people angry so you can be mindful of that.

Now if they did it all the time, that'd not be fine either. But once in a blue moon it's pretty normal and as long as it is a fruitful conversation rather than a rant, it's fine.

Anger from the therapist? Not acceptable

Anger from you during a session? that would be fine as far as I know

[weaverbeaver]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I was in therapy for too long with someone who was too inexperienced ... (and not exactly kind (or even “accurate” ) far too often..).


If I had been in extensive analysis beforehand, maybe I would have done “better” with this therapist. I wouldn’t ever have been “unendearing” or if I was, I wouldn’t have been so hurt by his anger and indifference. As I would have already “diagnosed” him and expected these hurtful feelings and behaviours


I have consulted other therapists. Trust is a big issue for me ...


I was wondering if people think that anger from a therapist is “acceptable”? Is it a necessary part of the “process” sometimes?


(I rejected another therapist who said that she would be angry with me... that

“anger is a part of relationships”. Also I didn’t feel a bond with this therapist, even after many months)

I think it is normal for a t to feel anger but how they express that anger would be the problematic issue for me!
Anger is part of all relationships. I would expect a t to be aware of their anger and to know that it is never appropriate to express that anger to a client unless they have proved the anger in the therapist by attacking them or punching them in the face.

I would expect a t to be aware of their counter transference and take it to supervision. The only reason I would like my t to be angry at me was if I had hurt myself in some way to show she cared.

[zoiecat]

I have a sick, twisted brain and I have actually asked my T to get angry with me. Be mean to me to knock some sense into me. It seems to be all I understand. Unfortunately he said he would not do it. He said beside it being unethical, it would destroy the trust he has built and that type if treatment is what messed up my head to begin with.

I still wish he would. I feel like it would help me get better faster.

[feralkittymom]

No anger ever. Not OK to show it, nor to feel it at a client. To do either I think is a failure. But I don't subscribe to the thinking that anger between adults (or from an adult towards a child) is functional, though it is common, nor do I believe that one person "makes" another angry. The anger comes from within the one feeling it, and no one else is responsible for it. To show the anger at the person is to punish them. I wouldn't tolerate punishment of any sort particularly from a T.

No I read it a lot on here that a client feels they are the target of a T's anger.
I think this is more about the clients internal world than the reality of what's going on.

[missbella]

My female co-therapist shrieked at others too. But she screamed at me: “YOU’RE PICKING UP YOUR TOYS AND GOING HOME. THAT’S JUST WHAT YOU DO IN RELATIONSHIPS!” (In retrospect I had remained with them far too long.) The male therapist joked at my expense concerning my refusal to embarrass another group member.

Their behavior had no connection to therapy. They had abandoned all professional demeanor, revealing the hateful, bullying personalities they really were. I see no advantage to performing emotional striptease for monsters like this. It’s handing them the weapon.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

I was wondering if people think that anger from a therapist is “acceptable”? Is it a necessary part of the “process” sometimes?

i do not believe that anger from a T outwardly towards a client is acceptable, especially if it entails anger stemming from the Ts frustration due to their lack of competency or the lack of skill to curb their own counter transference. i have been on the receiving end of both from my ex-T, especially when i was not responding in the way he was hoping for from his agenda.

[Ididitmyway]

It depends. In real life there can be no guarantees of "purity" of professional behavior at all times.

If the client becomes verbally abusive, makes threats, throws objects and crosses other lines of acceptable behavior, it'd be unrealistic to expect that T would feel no anger. Of course, they would and they should. In this situation, a professional, as well as a healthy human response, is to set a boundary immediately. The T needs to end the session and to inform the client that if this happens next time the therapy will be terminated at once. So, in the extreme situation like this, the anger should be channeled into a boundary setting.

In other situations, Ts should process their anger outside of therapy and not to show it in sessions. I would say, however, that if the anger doesn't dissipate quickly, if it persists, the T should refer the client out. IMO, the T should not allow things to come even close to the point that the client would constantly test their patience. I see no therapeutic value in allowing people to behave like spoiled little toddlers. If the therapy "relationship" is seen as some sort of a rehearsal for people for how to relate to others outside of therapy (as some people believe) , then learning to behave like grown ups should be a part of that rehearsal. I have always opposed the idea of allowing people to "regress" into an emotionally immature state, so the T would have an opportunity to "re-parent" them. This is the opposite of a healthy relationship IMO.

[missbella]

Ok, we have therapists furious only as the patient imagines it or because the patient deserves it for behaving like an infant. Is it even possible that a therapist can be a contemptuous human being, or buy into enfeebled patient/masterful healer roles a little too much?

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by missbella

Ok, we have therapists furious only as the patient imagines it or because the patient deserves it for behaving like an infant. Is it even possible that a therapist can be a contemptuous human being, or buy into enfeebled patient/masterful healer roles a little too much?

Sure, why not? I suspect there are narcissistic people in every profession.

[Anastasia~]

I see no therapeutic value, or any value at all, in describing a client's behavior as that of a spoiled little toddler or "childish". It's demeaning, judgmental, and shaming. And the implicit message sent when one describes a patient's goal as learning how to act like adults seems really shaming, too, and not an impetus for change. IMO

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by missbella

Ok, we have therapists furious only as the patient imagines it or because the patient deserves it for behaving like an infant. Is it even possible that a therapist can be a contemptuous human being, or buy into enfeebled patient/masterful healer roles a little too much?

This is a complete twist of what I said, but whatever..

[Ididitmyway]

It never stops to amaze me how people can read the text and see something that's not there at all..

[Fuzzybear]

Thanks for all the replies

The therapist I mentioned did hurt me a lot. It’s a very long story

(I was never abusive and didn’t do anything “wrong” .. also the therapist didn’t refer me to another therapist. )

I appreciate the different perspectives about anger on the therapist’s part.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

The therapist I mentioned did hurt me a lot. It’s a very long story

maybe someday you will feel comfortable or safe enough to perhaps share some of your story here. just know you are not alone in your experience.

I think that anger is a perfectly normal reaction to frustration, being stuck, unfairness, manipulation, and a lot of other things - real or imagined. I don't think it is wrong for a therapist (or for anyone) to feel angry. It's how they deal with it and express it. I don't think that a therapist needs to appear like a saint, I think that mostly would defeat the purpose of healthy communication. But there are many ways to express concern, frustration, dissatisfaction etc than attacks, invalidating and, what I often consider the worst and most ineffective, passive aggression. Unfortunately, passive aggression and twisting the client's experience and expressions is what they seem to do way too often, because they feel the anger, are not comfortable with either being direct or not reacting. I think passive aggression is what can be the most damaging because it is manipulative, lacks true responsibility but does not invite discussion and effective resolution.

One of my Ts used manipulation and passive aggression a lot whenever there was a slight conflict or criticism. It was crazy making and, if it achieved anything, only that I became more motivated to provoke him and stub into his sore spots, which were very clear to me in the end. It motivated me to engage in unhealthy communications that I almost never do. I don't think it was a regressive state, more negative emotional reactions to being misunderstood (or intentionally misinterpreted?) and kinda helpless because nothing else would go through. I had enough after a relatively short while and left the T, but the effects of it did not clear from my mind overnight and led to feelings and reactions that came out in all sorts of uncharacteristic and wrong ways, which just frustrated me further. It wasn't trivial to put an end to that chain - I think it is often how people react to narcissistic abuse, and my experience was quite minor, plus I am pretty armored emotionally in general and not easy to manipulate. I have no problem extrapolating and imagining how a similar but more severe and lasting episode leads to intense, long-term hurt, complicated injuries, and even destructive behaviors as a reaction.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by koru_kiwi

maybe someday you will feel comfortable or safe enough to perhaps share some of your story here. just know you are not alone in your experience.

Thank you, I did just now start another thread. I thought I felt safe enough to post. This particular therapist who turned on me accused me of “knee jerk reactions” amongst other things . But offered no constructive “advice” .. and I wasn’t wanting “advice” anyway

I actually think I’m rather polite and restrained usually, even when I’ve been hurt and invalidated

However, as I had built up some trust with this therapist, I suppose I let my defences down somewhat.

Big mistake

Please! No replies invalidating my experience.

Thanks for all the replies in this thread

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think that anger is a perfectly normal reaction to frustration, being stuck, unfairness, manipulation, and a lot of other things - real or imagined. I don't think it is wrong for a therapist (or for anyone) to feel angry. It's how they deal with it and express it. I don't think that a therapist needs to appear like a saint, I think that mostly would defeat the purpose of healthy communication. But there are many ways to express concern, frustration, dissatisfaction etc than attacks, invalidating and, what I often consider the worst and most ineffective, passive aggression. Unfortunately, passive aggression and twisting the client's experience and expressions is what they seem to do way too often, because they feel the anger, are not comfortable with either being direct or not reacting. I think passive aggression is what can be the most damaging because it is manipulative, lacks true responsibility but does not invite discussion and effective resolution.

One of my Ts used manipulation and passive aggression a lot whenever there was a slight conflict or criticism. It was crazy making and, if it achieved anything, only that I became more motivated to provoke him and stub into his sore spots, which were very clear to me in the end. It motivated me to engage in unhealthy communications that I almost never do. I don't think it was a regressive state, more negative emotional reactions to being misunderstood (or intentionally misinterpreted?) and kinda helpless because nothing else would go through. I had enough after a relatively short while and left the T, but the effects of it did not clear from my mind overnight and led to feelings and reactions that came out in all sorts of uncharacteristic and wrong ways, which just frustrated me further. It wasn't trivial to put an end to that chain - I think it is often how people react to narcissistic abuse, and my experience was quite minor, plus I am pretty armored emotionally in general and not easy to manipulate. I have no problem extrapolating and imagining how a similar but more severe and lasting episode leads to intense, long-term hurt, complicated injuries, and even destructive behaviors as a reaction.

Precisely. Thank you for expressing what I was trying to express but much more eloquently. You captured the covert dynamic of therapist's anger, and made a point that this way of dealing with anger is much more harmful to clients than when the therapist openly acknowledges that the client crossed certain lines of acceptable behavior. This is what I was trying to say but apparently it didn't come through.

I was also trying to say that there are appropriate and not appropriate ways for therapists to express their anger when they do it openly. It's not appropriate for the to resort to verbal attacks, screaming or any kind of insults. It is appropriate though and also necessary to set firm boundaries whenever client violates socially accepted norms of behavior.

My experience in therapy with my therapists' anger was very similar to yours except it was more intense. I did feel that I was regressing into a state of a small child precisely because the therapist used passive aggressive, gaslighting tactics. My traumatic reactions to that went out of control. I did cross certain lines that I never crossed in all my other relationships. I guess, unconsciously I was trying to provoke the T's anger just to see that he is a real human being who can be real with me, who can get pissed off (as he should have) and let me know that there was a limit of how much he could tolerate WITHOUT condemning me as a person. I needed him to give me a clear idea of what kind of relationship ours was and what I could and couldn't expect. And I needed him to do in a neutral way, without judging me as a human being.

[Fuzzybear]

I really don’t know if I want to, or even could, try to “trust” a therapist again, after all that.... I want to “heal” ... I’m not sure what therapist would want to “take on” all that “damage” from that former t as well as from the “family” of origin.

I was told by my therapist that therapy is only for people who are “well”...

He got frustrated, I get that. The therapy had become somewhat stuck. I was making some progress before he turned mean, but I don’t think it was “enough” for him

[Anastasia~]

I found a T who took me on, all of me including my issues surrounding my past therapy and termination. It has worked well for me, he has validated my emotions concerning what happened and helped me to accept myself for who I am. I am so sorry you are going through this painful therapy rupture.