[fille_folle]

I am coming to the conclusion that I have one barrier holding me back from really trusting my therapist's judgement. The issue is that she does not think I am crazy. I feel that I am because I have DID and my symptoms have always made me different mentally (in a bad way) from other people. I have known this from a very young age. My therapist says I am not crazy. When I tell her that I am, she responds with different evasions of the reality. Usually, she says that it's not crazy, it's just a way of surviving. Well, I say it may be a way of surviving, but it's still crazy. Last time, she said she doesn't really like calling anyone crazy, but if anyone is crazy, it is the people in my past who have committed abuses against me (that essentially made me crazy). Again, I can get onboard with them being crazy, but that doesn't mean I'm not crazy, too.

Anyway, I'm not really sure how to get past this. Am I just playing with semantics? The reason it worries me is that I am supposed to believe other things my therapist says, like that certain things weren't my fault, in order to progress. How am I supposed to believe such things when she also thinks I'm not batshit insane? I'm so confused. Has anyone else dealt with something like this, where you have doubted what your therapist has told you based on one thing that you have opposing views on?

[maybeblue]

I have most definitely had many, many disagreements with therapists...they either learn to at least empathize with my point of view or we part ways. They don't have to agree, but they do have to understand where I am coming from.

However, I'm a little confused about the disagreement you are having with your therapist. Is it that she won't use the word "crazy," or is it more that she seems to be minimizing your problems.

If it is the former, that she won't use the word "crazy," I might have to agree with her. I don't think I would ever use that word with someone that I liked. I would reserve that word for someone who is completely out of control and maybe even irredeemably so. I would agree that based on your description that you have a mental illness, but that seems very different than "crazy" to me. A mental illness can be treated or at least managed and it isn't you. It's something you have. "Crazy" though seems like an unfixable trait. I'm sure that other people interpret the words differently, but if your therapist sees it like I do, then I can see why she wouldn't agree to use the word.

On the other hand if your therapist seems to be minimizing your problems then I can totally understand your frustration. Therapists sometimes call it "normalizing," when we tell them something that we think is bad about us, and they say something like "many people feel that way." That bothers me because if they can't admit that something is a problem, then how can we fix it?

[zoiecat]

I too have DID and I talk about my crazy, sick, twisted brain all the time. My T is constantly saying I am not crazy and I have a mental health specialust telling me so. He says I am perfectly normal for someone who has gone through what I have endured. I say yeah I am perfectly normal for a crazy freak. We are back and forth at least once a month like this.

While he seems to swear I am perfectly normal, I too believe that DID is just too crazy to even begin to accept. It will take a LOT of reframing for me to ever begin to think otherwise.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by zoiecat

He says I am perfectly normal for someone who has gone through what I have endured. I say yeah I am perfectly normal for a crazy freak.

EXACTLY (no offense, heh...)

[unaluna]

Dude, my family is crazy, not me. If youre able to stand outside and recognize it, and come here (or to your t) and talk about it in a way that makes sense, you are not crazy.

DiD as Hollywood would have it is pretty out there.
In reality it's just a spectrum. I see those not in therapy that have aspects, not integrated.
But I don't buy into the Hollywood version of DID

[ruh roh]

Yes, I have had this very same issue with my therapist and it's really bugged me because on the one hand she says it's not crazy, it's a creative response to abuse. But inside, it feels crazy and I have openly questioned her sanity for believing any of this. I can't say that I found a way to resolve it, other than to think of things she's said that have proven true and trustworthy. If I focus on where there may be cracks, I end up with a crumbly therapy mess.

[satsuma]

I think that the word "crazy" has negative connotations, and can be a way of labellling people as "different" but in a bad way. It can also be dismissive and distancing - labelling another person as crazy carries the implied message "and I'm not at all like them / I would never do the things they do or say the things they say, because THEY are crazy but I am normal". So it's a way of not understanding another person's viewpoint and not empathising with them.

So I think that's why it's important to a therapist that they do not call their client "crazy". Because a therapist is there to have a different approach - to try to get alongside someone and try to understand where they are coming from, if problems have arisen WHY have thy arisen (because that can inform HOW they might helpfully be resolved), and the therapist needs to have a basic liking and respect for the people they work with, I think. So I can see how it would be quite a barrier to them to think of their client as crazy.

I can see how this can also feel like a barrier to the client, especially if we are not used to having compassion towards ourselves or having others show empathy towards us.

I have DID with about fifty alters and I am not crazy.
Having g DID does not make you crazy.
Having DID is a gift that saved us from going crazy from the extreme abuse. If I DIDNT have DID, i may have ended up crazy.

https://www.discussingdissociation.c...-dissociation/

https://www.discussingdissociation.com

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by Starry_Night

I have DID with about fifty alters and I am not crazy.
Having g DID does not make you crazy.
Having DID is a gift that saved us from going crazy from the extreme abuse. If I DIDNT have DID, i may have ended up crazy.

https://www.discussingdissociation.c...-dissociation/

https://www.discussingdissociation.com

I respect your point of view, Starry Night, I just don't share it. Having DID is in no way a gift for me. I do not see it as stopping me from going crazy because it has made me crazy.

[mugwort2]

Originally Posted by satsuma

I think that the word "crazy" has negative connotations, and can be a way of labellling people as "different" but in a bad way. It can also be dismissive and distancing - labelling another person as crazy carries the implied message "and I'm not at all like them / I would never do the things they do or say the things they say, because THEY are crazy but I am normal". So it's a way of not understanding another person's viewpoint and not empathising with them.

So I think that's why it's important to a therapist that they do not call their client "crazy". Because a therapist is there to have a different approach - to try to get alongside someone and try to understand where they are coming from, if problems have arisen WHY have thy arisen (because that can inform HOW they might helpfully be resolved), and the therapist needs to have a basic liking and respect for the people they work with, I think. So I can see how it would be quite a barrier to them to think of their client as crazy.

I can see how this can also feel like a barrier to the client, especially if we are not used to having compassion towards ourselves or having others show empathy towards us.

Is what you're saying that what is important is learning coping skills. What ever you call it is secondary to helping one develop or strenghthen skills within the client? I certainly agree respect and hopefully liking the person in therapy is important and very helpful. I think words are important. Crazy is such a negative, insensitive term to me. OTOH There is much stigma connected to MI so I'm uncertain what term to use. I only hope being sensitive to one's feelings is never lost.

[Amyjay]

I have DID too. I HATE the term "crazy". I don't like it in reference to anyone because I think of it as a derogatory term. Mental illness is a biological illness. The mind is a part of the body. It is as biological as the heart or the skin or the eyes. A mental illness is simply something going wrong with a part of the body, as much as a cold or a cancer or an allergic reaction. What makes mental illness stand out as different is that it affects observable behavior and people tend to think of behavior as something that people can control.

I don't think of DID as "crazy" either. Yes it is a "mental condition" but first and foremost it is a biological condition. Personality is a function of the biological organ of the brain. Because of external events the personality was unable to follow the typical developmental path and integrate in the formative stages of personality development. Human development was disrupted. Much in the same way that typical bone formation would have been disrupted if the fetus didn't receive enough calcium, or that cancer developed because the person was exposed to a carcinogenic substance. For the human brain to create an effective and fully functioning personality it too needs the conditions to be right.
DID is a known possible outcome from a known set of inputs at a particular stage of development. DID disrupts peersonality development. Personality affects behavior, relationships, emotions, identity, response, interactions, communication, learning and so much more.
I have DID and I know I am not normal in so so many ways. Life is really hard. I think other people would readily call me crazy. Espeically when they see me dissociating in public in a way that is ... really weird. (Like rapid switching
But I don't see myself as crazy. I am not crazy. Even though I am may appear crazy at times I am NOT crazy. I have a developmental trauma, a developmental injury.
I am injured.

My T refuses to use the word crazy and she also hates the term broken which is what I feel is an accurate term for me. I will admit that it really bothered me at first that she wouldn't agree with my assessment of myself because I 1000000% feel broken and crazy. I have come to realize that she doesn't use those terms because that truly isnt how she sees me. I am my own harshest critic, I know this, and while I see broken and crazy and beyond all hope, she sees a person who is in pain and coping the best they can and someone who is strong and brave enough to put in the work to make things better. I have come to appreciate the refusal to use those words because I helps me remember that, when I am unable to have hope for myself, she holds on to it for me.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by Amyjay

I have DID too. I HATE the term "crazy". I don't like it in reference to anyone because I think of it as a derogatory term. Mental illness is a biological illness. The mind is a part of the body. It is as biological as the heart or the skin or the eyes. A mental illness is simply something going wrong with a part of the body, as much as a cold or a cancer or an allergic reaction. What makes mental illness stand out as different is that it affects observable behavior and people tend to think of behavior as something that people can control.

I don't think of DID as "crazy" either. Yes it is a "mental condition" but first and foremost it is a biological condition. Personality is a function of the biological organ of the brain. Because of external events the personality was unable to follow the typical developmental path and integrate in the formative stages of personality development. Human development was disrupted. Much in the same way that typical bone formation would have been disrupted if the fetus didn't receive enough calcium, or that cancer developed because the person was exposed to a carcinogenic substance. For the human brain to create an effective and fully functioning personality it too needs the conditions to be right.
DID is a known possible outcome from a known set of inputs at a particular stage of development. DID disrupts peersonality development. Personality affects behavior, relationships, emotions, identity, response, interactions, communication, learning and so much more.
I have DID and I know I am not normal in so so many ways. Life is really hard. I think other people would readily call me crazy. Espeically when they see me dissociating in public in a way that is ... really weird. (Like rapid switching
But I don't see myself as crazy. I am not crazy. Even though I am may appear crazy at times I am NOT crazy. I have a developmental trauma, a developmental injury.
I am injured.

I respectfully disagree that DID is a biological condition. I believe it is psychological. If it were biological, then the treatment would be meds instead of therapy. In contrast, I believe my depression IS biological. All the talking in the world doesn't have an effect on it, while medication does. I think there are some biological mental illnesses, and some psychological ones. Being a psychological illness does not make something less valid.

Are you equating being "batshit insane" with being in a lot pain? Your therapist can acknowledge your pain without labelling you with outdated and marginalising adjectives.

It's hard to imagine a therapist who would indulge the idea that you are crazy. Mental illness or distress is nothing but its symptoms (and how these are inadequately responded to on a societal level). It might be more productive to consider how your therapist helps you mange these symptoms, rather than hankering after an agreement about antiquated terms.

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by long_gone

Are you equating being "batshit insane" with being in a lot pain? Your therapist can acknowledge your pain without labelling you with outdated and marginalising adjectives.

It's hard to imagine a therapist who would indulge the idea that you are crazy. Mental illness or distress is nothing but its symptoms (and how these are inadequately responded to on a societal level). It might be more productive to consider how your therapist helps you mange these symptoms, rather than hankering after an agreement about antiquated terms.

No, though I won't deny that I am in a lot of pain. I feel crazy and I do crazy things. Labeling myself as crazy doesn't really bother me. The reality does.

[velcro003]

What is the reality that bothers you?

[fille_folle]

Originally Posted by velcro003

What is the reality that bothers you?

I mean the reality of the symptoms I experience.

[velcro003]

Oh ok, sorry. To me, it seems an argument of semantics. I agree with others that "crazy" is such a negative term, and I can see why your T doesn't want to label you crazy. I find it interesting that if you can't get past that, you also can't believe when your T tells you something isn't your fault. I am guessing this has to do with abuse you received. I don't want to guess your life, and I can NOT imagine how awful having DID is, but I don't see it as "crazy."

[ruh roh]

For a while, I thought my therapist was the unstable one because it was easier to think that than face what my own mind was/is doing. The downside of that, not unlike the OP's dilemma, is that I couldn't trust what she said. I even told her I thought she wasn't stable and she said, you don't think I'm stable? And let her words hang there. So while crazy may be derogatory, it can be a feeling that's quite real. Hopefully, it's not a permanent feeling. I know that when I make progress inside, that feeling is not as prominent. Maybe that's how it will be for you, too, ff.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

I respectfully disagree that DID is a biological condition. I believe it is psychological. If it were biological, then the treatment would be meds instead of therapy. In contrast, I believe my depression IS biological. All the talking in the world doesn't have an effect on it, while medication does. I think there are some biological mental illnesses, and some psychological ones. Being a psychological illness does not make something less valid.

Oh yes, I agree with you it is a psychological condition, and I understand the distinction between an organic biological illness and a psychological one. I meant it with a slightly different meaning, not meaning that is a physiological condition that can be fixed with medication etc, but that it is of the body. I didn't explain it well. The injury occurs to the formation of the neural synapses when the brain is still developing in the first six years of life (and it develops a LOT in that time, which you can readily see in the comparison of brain scans between newborns and six year olds). In that time period the human being develops and forms their human personality. The brain forms synapses and pathways between neurons that become intelligence, behaviors, emotional reactions, etc etc. The brain is physically creating those pathways, it is forming itself based on the environmental input it receives. This is where the injury occurs. Abnormal traumatic experiences without resolution (healing) create injured pathways and responses. It is in this sense that I mean it is a biological "illness". It is of our biology. Our brains formed that way. (No, it cannot be fixed with medicine). It is a psychological "illness" because it relates to the mind. The mind is of the brain, which is a biological organ.

I believe DID is a developmental injury. It is a trauma that disrupted and
changed the normal formative development of the human personality.

[satsuma]

Originally Posted by mugwort2

Is what you're saying that what is important is learning coping skills. What ever you call it is secondary to helping one develop or strenghthen skills within the client? I certainly agree respect and hopefully liking the person in therapy is important and very helpful. I think words are important. Crazy is such a negative, insensitive term to me. OTOH There is much stigma connected to MI so I'm uncertain what term to use. I only hope being sensitive to one's feelings is never lost.

I don't really understand your question in relation to what I wrote, but I think I agree with it yes.

[Amyjay]

Originally Posted by fille_folle

No, though I won't deny that I am in a lot of pain. I feel crazy and I do crazy things. Labeling myself as crazy doesn't really bother me. The reality does.

I do understand this point of view.

[fille_folle]

@Amyjay Thanks for the info and clarification.

[Fuzzybear]