[scorpiosis37]

I stopped seeing my ex-T about 2 years ago, when her license was revoked for misconduct with clients (not me). At the time, she told me that the allegation was untrue and I believed her. She gave me an explanation that made sense to me and I didn’t investigate anything on my own; I simply took her at her word. Since she was no longer licensed and bound by a 2 year rule, she offered to become friends. I accepted the offer and we have stayed in touch, although it’s been rather disappointing. She makes plans and then cancels at the last minute, she offers do this or that and then never does, and she keeps telling me about how this other therapist or that psychological association is “out to get her.” I also found it strange that she was able to continue as the owner of her psychotherapy practice after losing her license (which it now turns out is against the rules and she’s been caught). Once again, we had plans and she didn’t show up, this time telling me she is the victim of unfair persecution by the APA and probably losing her business. It’s also a very significant time in my life, and she made promises to meet up with me twice and she cancelled both times. She never apologizes her cancelling and, when I tell her it is disrespectful of my time and of me as a person, she just tells me to deal with it. That’s how she is and, she says, all of her other friends accept that about her and give her the flexibility she needs. I work 80 hours a week and take care of elderly parents and am in the process of moving across the country— so I can’t just “be flexible” whenever it suits her. Anyway, this week I was finally at the point where I started questioning all of the stories she has been feeding me. So, for the first time, I googled her license number and was shocked by what I found. She plead guilty on count of misconduct and no contest on another, and the accusations span a period of 6 years, including the 5 years she was my T. I’m sick to my stomach over what I found, but I can’t confront her about it now because she’s made it very clear that she is not available while she deals with the dissolution of her business. I’ve also realized that even though she didn’t cross any kind of romantic/sexual boundaries with me (everything is strictly platonic on both sides), the friendship she built with me is also a symptom of the numerous boundary violations that cost her her license. If someone loses their license for being inappropriate with clients, who goes and asks a different to be friends three days later? After having to attend courses on appropriate boundaries on and off over a period of 5 years? And 4 counts of misconduct? I guess I’m just finally realizing that she lied straight to my face about the validity of the allegation that cost her her license, and that she has a history of such violations which I knew nothing about. I *thought* she had one false allegation made against her by an unstable, obsessive client and that I was the only client she had a friendship with, and that only happened because our therapy was interrupted because she lost her license and she didn’t want to lose the bond we had built over 5 years of therapy. Now I’m realizing she’s full of it, and I can’t even approach her about it for weeks? Months? while she tries to put her life back together after getting caught for more violations, now as the owner of a therapy practice rather than as a clinician. How do I deal with this myself, since I can’t talk to her, at least for the time being? I’m not interested in doing more therapy; I don’t need it at this point. I’m just pissed about what I found out.

[growlycat]

That sounds like a nightmare. Are you thinking about cutting ties to her altogether? Friendships are give and take but she sounds like she takes when she needs it and offers little in return. If she keeps repeating her mistakes I don’t think your confrontation will make any differenc although you have cause to be angry.

Do you mind if I ask what kinds of ethical guidelines that she broke with others? I am just concerned because I have a t with looser boundaries.

[WarmFuzzySocks]

I would be pissed too.

She doesn’t sound like much of a friend.
Being angry and hurt is a pretty reasonable response to being disrespected and lied to. It sounds like this experience is highlighting your (reasonable!) expectations of what a friendship is to you and where your boundaries are.

[elisewin]

Do you have other friends and support you can turn to? According to what you told, I would examine very carefully if a person like that deserves a spot in your life. If you continously lose more than gain interacting with her, the answer should be there in your eyes. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.

[weaverbeaver]

I would be really pissed too!
As others have said she doesn’t sound like a very good friend let alone t.
Friendships work both ways, she is taking not giving! You are going through a hard enough time at the minute without her drama and blatant disregard of ethics and boundaries.
As a matter of interest, did you actually want to be her friend or was it more she wanted to be yours? She had already broke a code of ethics by asking to be your friend whilst being investigated for breaking the rules. I wonder if she was trying to get you on her side and play the victim to you in case you were ever questioned or wanted to make a report against her! It all misfired though because of her risky behaviour and gross misconduct! I am trying not to jump to any conclusions and just sticking to what you have shared.

This must be really shocking for you to find out. I don’t blame you for not wanting to go to anymore therapy. Please, take all the support you need here. I am trying not to be judgemental but it’s hard because she broke so many rules and really disrespected you as a client and a friend.

[scorpiosis37]

To answer the questions posed, the misconduct she engaged in with others (not me!) is a sexual relationship with clients/former clients. I knew that one client had accused her of this, but she told me a very convincing story about how this was untrue and that the client had been obsessed with her and was making it up. Now that I know she has been accused by more than one person and she did not in any way fight the charges (and lost/destroyed patient records), I believe it is true. Had I thought it were true before, I would have stopped seeing her as a T and never become friends. Just to be clear, she has never tried to cross that boundary with me.

Becoming friends was her suggestion, but I was also genuinely interested in a friendship with her. Now, two years later, it doesn’t feel as though she actually wants a friendship with me. At least her actions don’t show it. She does text me to complain about things in her life she feels are unfair, but she doesn’t really go to me for support. She just shoots off a text to complain and that’s it. We rarely meet up in person (due to me living further away) or talk on the phone anymore. It’s now mostly via text. When I try to reach out to her just to talk or share with her about my life, she’ll be interested for about five minutes and then have to go. I don’t consider that friendship. After learning all of this information about her, I do not want to continue a friendship with her. I also don’t just want to slow fade in silence. I want to stand up for myself and tell her why I no longer want a relationship with her. But I can’t do that until she resurfaces. It’s the being in limbo that drives me nuts. But that’s what things have been like with her for the last year or two. She makes a plan with me, I get emotionally prepared to tell her personal things about my life and really connect with her, and she either doesn’t show up or does show up and acts totally flighty. It’s like she has lost the ability to empathize, connect, pay attention, or have any level of self-awareness. She will also hear me say something— like say I just went through a break-up— and respond by spending an hour telling me about her amazing new relationship and how she’s in heaven. Not that it isn’t okay to share that, just that she has no ability to “read the room” so to speak. Honestly, ever since she became my friend instead of my therapist, she’s been a big disappointment. I do believe that she cares about me on some level, but I think she’s also very self-centered. I think she truly believes she’s the victim in these cases and that she hasn’t done anything “that” wrong. I think she believes the excuses she’s telling herself. So if I do confront her, I don’t expect to get any admission of guilt or an apology from her. It would be exclusively about standing up for myself and telling her WHY I no longer want her in my life. Sadly, I don’t think she’ll hear me. I think she’ll just decide I’m now out to get her, too.

Just to add: I don’t believe becoming my friend was in any way sinister on her part. I don’t think she did it in order to get me on her side for her case or to prevent me from filing any kind of case against her. I never did and still don’t want to file any kind of case against her, nor do I feel harmed by having a friendship with her. I think she harmed other clients and I think she’s been a sucky friend to me, but I don’t want to have anything to do with her legal issues or sanctions.

[weaverbeaver]

I am glad that you are going to stand up for yourself by explaining why you don’t want her in your life.
I can understand wanting to be friends with your t, I have often fantasised about it but I have heard similar stories to yours and would appreciate her more as a t.
It must be heartbreaking and confusing to know that she been leading a double life almost, behaving differently with every client.
Your friendship appeared one sided, she couldn’t be there for you like she was as a therapist. So do you have other support in your life? Sounds like you could really do with a good friend who is interested in your life.
Your t sounds a tad narcissistic- I really hope you don’t mind me saying that. Of course I don’t know her, just what I am reading here and coming to my own conclusions, please correct me if I am wrong!
I would have trouble separating her actions from her stories. It is truly shocking and I am glad she didn’t try anything sexual with you.
It’s hard to accept a t would do all of this.

[Myrto]

I am sorry. This whole situation is awful and the fact that your ex therapist sexually abused one of her clients (or maybe more than one?) is horrifying. And on top of that she claimed that this client had made it up. UGh what does this remind me of? Oh that’s right: every single time a rape victim talks about her abuse, she’s not being believed. The fact that your therapist is a woman (and a lesbian) adds a new layer of grossness.

I don’t have any advice, except to say that I think it’s good that you want to let her know why you no longer want to be her friend.

And as a conclusion: let this story be a proof that clients in fact don’t know their therapist, despite what I often read on here, and that a therapist befriending a client is always a red flag.

[Echos Myron redux]

I'm glad you don't feel harmed by this. I worry that she could have invited countless other clients into friendship and they could be harmed by her non-existent boundaries and selfish actions.
I'm really sorry you are going through this and I hope you find some resolution. I can imagine it's horrendous to have to sit on this information and not confront her.

[downandlonely]

Maybe you should write a letter to her explaining why you want to end the friendship. It might be easier than talking to her about it. I would be hurt and angry too.

[unaluna]

My experience in the lesbian therapy community is that such ethical rules are part of the patriarchy and therefore not applicable, and im kind of surprised you didnt know this. But maybe my experience is more old school and you youngsters are more egalitarian? Idk.

[downandlonely]

I still think it's unethical for a therapist to have sex with a client, no matter what their sexual orientation. It's an abuse of power.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

I still think it's unethical for a therapist to have sex with a client, no matter what their sexual orientation. It's an abuse of power.

But to be clear, you are speaking as an outsider, correct?

[Myrto]

Originally Posted by unaluna

My experience in the lesbian therapy community is that such ethical rules are part of the patriarchy and therefore not applicable, and im kind of surprised you didnt know this. But maybe my experience is more old school and you youngsters are more egalitarian? Idk.

Um what?? Being a lesbian does not mean you can abuse your clients sexually you know. Abuse of power is abuse of power. What an offensive comment. And I'm a lesbian btw.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Myrto

Um what?? Being a lesbian does not mean you can abuse your clients sexually you know. Abuse of power is abuse of power. What an offensive comment. And I'm a lesbian btw.

Dont shoot me, im only the messenger. Im not saying i agree with it, im telling you what was told to me - that rules set by the patriarchy do not apply.

Originally Posted by unaluna

My experience in the lesbian therapy community is that such ethical rules are part of the patriarchy and therefore not applicable, and im kind of surprised you didnt know this. But maybe my experience is more old school and you youngsters are more egalitarian? Idk.

This was my experience as well - although it was over 20 years ago. Also, it was a small, close-knit community (therapists and clients) with lots of duel relationships. I tried to explain it to a therapist (straight male) years later and he was absolutely appalled.

Unaluna, you are proper leftfield. A reet rum 'un, as my people say.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by SorryNorma

Unaluna, you are proper leftfield. A reet rum 'un, as my people say.

I have my "qualities"!

This therapist sounds like someone who could benefit from a lot of therapy herself.
She has A LOT of stuff to sift through and, though you’re kind to give her the benefit of the doubt, I read it as if she were taking advantage of you as someone she used to listen to and now who she wants to listen to her. Even comparing you to her friends who are flexible with her while you’re living a very busy life.. she seems toxic. It’s always good to stand up for ourselves... is she someone who would “hear” it? Is she worth your energy?

I ask because I had a person in my life like this (funny, she was also a therapist, but not mine. We were neighbors), and eventually I just let her disappear because she’s too in her own world to even understand what I’d be trying to say. It wasn’t worth it.

[LonesomeTonight]

Wow, I'm sorry you're going through this. I can't imagine what it must feel like. I remember when you originally posted that your T was abruptly leaving her practice and I wondered what was going on, if there was something she wasn't telling you. Sorry to hear it was this... I agree with the suggestion to maybe write her a letter.

[ruh roh]

I, too, worried when she had to quit that the allegations were true. It did seem to me at the time that she was making sure you wouldn't side with any accusers if their cases came to light, but if you feel there was nothing sinister in her motivations then I would say at the very least she needed to have you support her fantasy about herself as a good person and a good therapist--so, maybe more about her ego needs than anything overtly strategic.


Regardless, she has taken advantage of you for whatever reason, and I am sorry. You've had a rough go of it for a very long time, leading up to her leaving and since then. Do you think her health issues (the original reason for dropping out of sight while still your therapist) were a lie to cover up what was happening with her other client's accusations? If I recall, she left you hanging for a long time when you really needed support, then resurfaced and told you she had health issues, then it was some time after she quit altogether.

[Anne2.0]

I'm sorry that this situation is painful for you and I can understand being pissed when you feel you've been lied to.

I have spent 25+ years regularly reading the "investigation" reports of police departments all across the country. Every report I have ever read is convincing as to the guilt of the accused. You can only realize that the police are wrong when reviewing other evidence (including what they have). More than once an interviewee has said "x" when the police report gets it completely wrong, like "not x." I have no experience with mental health boards, so perhaps my experience doesn't apply.

But we know more than ever-- from Innocence Projects and from scholarship like The New Jim Crow-- that people accused of wrongdoing are not too uncommonly "convicted" of things they did not do. Sometimes it is a function of implicit bias in the system to slant the tone or the facts towards a perception of guiltiness. Jurors show up to trials with a bias towards the prosecution, and the prosecution, as the authority with most of the power in the system, often thinks they know what the truth is even though they don't have the evidence to back it up.

On the other hand, those accused of wrongdoing have been known not to tell the truth. Who's to say?

I guess I would caution you about assuming you know what the truth is about your "friend" when you cannot possibly know. in the criminal justice system, people sometimes, maybe often, take plea bargains because they are over a barrel. They can't afford to defend themselves or they can't get back to work while this lengthy process is held over their heads, and resolution is so far off. In ethics board situations, the board holds even more power over the accused because the rights in the criminal justice system don't apply. Maybe I'm just cynical, but I think those in authority will abuse their power on a regular basis, and the fact that your T is queer sets her up as a target in that system just like in every one.

I don't have any dog in this fight about whether you want to maintain this friendship, but I'd encourage you to think more deeply about whether the "truth" as you think you know it is a reason to go or stay. I think being a friend to someone who is accused of wrongdoing means to believe what they say, and if you must investigate yourself and believe you can come to the truth by reading the limited record available on the internet, perhaps you keep that to yourself. Friends do not, in my opinion, try to tell other people what their truth is, nor do they try to extract it from them. Accepting that this is what someone wants to tell you about the difficult situation they are in and suspending some need for the "truth" has worked well for me in the past.

I've never been accused of any formal wrongdoing, but I have had people accuse me of doing or saying something I didn't. It hurts like the dickens. It hurts so bad that it's impossible to be angry about it. I did not continue a relationship with those people.

[here today]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

. . . Anyway, this week I was finally at the point where I started questioning all of the stories she has been feeding me. . . . Now I’m realizing she’s full of it, and I can’t even approach her about it for weeks? Months? while she tries to put her life back together after getting caught for more violations, now as the owner of a therapy practice rather than as a clinician. How do I deal with this myself, since I can’t talk to her, at least for the time being? I’m not interested in doing more therapy; I don’t need it at this point. I’m just pissed about what I found out.

Congratulations for having the courage and strength of character to investigate and to face the facts. Yes, there are two side to every story, but it does not seem like this person has really been able to be there for you. That itself may -- and perhaps should -- be considered a health -- a mental health -- issue on her part. But that also means, it seems to me, that she is not capable of being a reliable friend to you. And so, sad as it is, not someone that it is good for you to count on for anything much.

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Being pissed is a natural reaction. I've been there, done that, about therapists and therapy, too.

Then, for me came horrendous disappointment. I haven't needed more therapy, but social support here and in some friendships I've been able to make from a support group has helped enormously.

Hope you'll be doing better soon. How to deal with this stuff? How to move forward? For me, it's been bit by bit one step at a time. Maybe there's a better way but I haven't found it. Still not really over the anger but. . .

[missbella]

I believe most relationships don’t require big confrontations to end. Since the goal is ending the lies and drama, I’d simply be unavailable and back out of the room slowly. This woman had proved untruthful, so what can be gained from confronting her?

[WarmFuzzySocks]

Originally Posted by scorpiosis37

I think she truly believes she’s the victim in these cases and that she hasn’t done anything “that” wrong. I think she believes the excuses she’s telling herself. So if I do confront her, I don’t expect to get any admission of guilt or an apology from her. It would be exclusively about standing up for myself and telling her WHY I no longer want her in my life. Sadly, I don’t think she’ll hear me. I think she’ll just decide I’m now out to get her, too.

Standing up for yourself is a great goal. Could you write an email or a letter?

That gives you some control over the timing instead of having to wait for her to be available to you.