Do you think it’s possible to hurt your T?

Physical assault from a client is not a common situation in therapy. It's very rare.

In regards to "slipping under their guard" or "overwhelming their defenses", I don't believe that the therapist protective shield has anything to do with being intentionally guarded against possible attacks and keeping their defenses up. It has to do with being crystal clear about what your professional role is and knowing that that role puts you in a much more powerful, therefore less vulnerable position, than the other party.

If the therapist doesn't understand their professional role and that causes them to get traumatized, they should not continue to practice and should choose a different occupation.

All the time I was in practice no client had ever caused me harm even though some clients were mean and intentionally hurtful on occasion. I also can't recall any case of any of my colleagues in which they were traumatized by a client. They were often angry at something a client said or did and they vented about it in supervision and peer consultations, but their emotions were not even near to what anyone would consider a traumatic pain.

I understand why some people would like to believe that they have the power to traumatize their therapists. Knowing that you have the power to traumatize someone who is very important to you feels good on some level because it means that that person cares enough about you to give you the power to traumatized them. Well, they don't care enough about you for you to be able to hurt them profoundly and it's perfectly okay. It's not in their role to care about you as much as you want them to. But yeah..I understand why it doesn't feel good to accept this reality.

I think you're picking up on something very nuanced and maybe conflictual about therapy. First of all, I wonder if you are being too hard on yourself about the "hurtful" things you have said. Second, I also wonder if your "hurtful" commentary was designed to provoke a reaction from him-- like the email response you were waiting for. If you've been raised in a family where "drama" was currency and where "drama" felt good, then maybe you're wanting some "drama" and acceptance from your T feels odd.

For a long time I wanted my T to have reactions to things I disclosed or feelings I expressed, and one day I was frustrated and said, "Why aren't you reacting?" He said I was getting a reaction (he wasn't just sitting there like a stone) but it didn't seem to be the reaction I wanted. He nailed it.

So when you say you want to know if you affect him, what does that look like?

Hmmm this is really interesting. I have never been dramatic though, quite the opposite in fact. I was always polite, well-behaved and followed all the rules. I think it may be that I was always so good (no strong emotions allowed!) so when I have emotions they may feel dramatic and out of control when they really aren’t. Or at least maybe that’s what my T is trying to get across.

Most of the ones I saw seemed insecure, but it would probably take a lot for a client to get thru, given that they viewed me with extreme disinterest, and probably forgot I existed 30 seconds after i left, and the next drone appeared.

The area where I can see them getting injured is when the client says or does something to make clear that therapy does not "work for everyone". Then it's no longer "transference".

In my experience, no one likes to hear that the job they do is meaningless or that they're not needed. This is exactly the dilemma I've having with my therapist right now. I like her a lot. I trust her immensely. I just don't see myself as needing therapy right now. I've done years of good, productive therapy and...I guess I feel kind of done with it. So I keep cancelling appointments and feeling guilty about doing so. Guilty - but relieved.

I've definitely run into my fair share of dud therapists, but then I've been extremely fortunate to find a couple who were gifted at their jobs. I'm really sorry that you've had such bad experiences with therapists. It's unfortunate that you didn't connect well with at least one.

Two of my therapists have mentioned there were times when they have been frightened by patients, although they did not say they had been assaulted.

I did have the very first one I ever tried when I was in my 20s tell me she was not impervious to clients.
I doubt she meant it, but she did say it.

Of course! They're regular people who studied to be T's. I hurt my T once that I know of because she told me. I said something very rude about her weight. She's very thin. I apologized more than once because it really was a hurtful comment.

Actually, that's a really good, basic reality - therapists are human beings just like anyone...makes sense that they can be hurt by a client. Maybe they are just trained to handle it more effectively.

Or that they are doing it wrong, which is what I constantly told Madame T.

Yes, I think it is possible to hurt your T. They are only human. I don’t understand the disrespect or mean treatment towards therapists. They are here for only one reason - to help us heal. It’s all for our benefit.

A real professional T wouldn't be affected by their clients. They are trained to disconnect emotionally remaining unbiased and objective. You cant hurt people unless they take an issue personally , and although I'm sure there are some Ts who cross the line, I don't think it is the usual for Ts to attach themselves personally or emotionally with their clients. Great Ts have big shoulders.

It can be difficult to tell the difference between:
1. The inevitable pain of therapy
2. An honest misunderstanding
3. The therapist having a bad day
4. Incompetence
5. Malice

Patients with mental illness (i.e. all of us) are particularly prone to confuse these. And while most Ts deserve the benefit of the doubt, there are some genuine bad apples out there.

Normal and therapist don't go in the same sentence.
And yes -they are.

We do not all have mental illness. I don't and I don't think everyone here or even most have a mental illness. Also, any number of therapists have a diagnosable mental illness and still become therapists. I had no need for a therapist even while I chose to try it. Many of those guys even try to sell therapy as being for everyone not just those with a mental illness.

My last therapist did seem to get hurt from what I said sometimes. Sometimes, especially once near the end of the therapy, she got huffy and shamed me. The next session she said that she had been triggered and that she was not perfect. But she never seemed to understand or even to be interested in how her response had affected me.

I now suspect that getting huffy and blaming other people was an automatic defense on her part. And I believe that she really should not be practicing, or should be more careful who she takes on as a client. There was a client she told me about (trying to excuse her own emotional unavailability with me?) who she said that she had been hurt and traumatized by, and afraid of what the client was going to do to her. But based on how the therapist's blaming and shaming me affected me, no matter what that client's presenting problems and reactions were, my own personal opinion is to fault the therapist.

I don't think that the licensing board would have looked at a complaint that way, though, so I never made one. Maybe it's citizen client's responsibility in some way -- but I'd been too hurt by the therapist and the profession to put myself through the process of filing a complaint. I have enough trouble trying to be responsibible and take care of myself, going through the complaint process would have just added more trauma, IMO. I wouldn't have felt that way years ago -- but then I was codependent and responsible for everything.

I do believe their egos can get wounded and they defend themselves by blaming and labeling the client.

"Anyone who sees a therapist needs their head examined." QED

Absolutely unless they are detached. However, professionally he should follow the guidance of his chosen methodology and remain neutral. Why would you think others would be unaffected by you?

Nah, no matter how well-trained a therapist is, s/he is a human being. I have known enough therapists outside of their professional environment to know that the better the therapist, the more they do care about how a client's life is going. For one thing, therapists want to feel proud of the work they do. And do you suppose that after years of therapy with a client, when the therapy ends the therapist doesn't have emotions about therapy ending? Of course they do.

I think, in your situation it was wise not to file a complaint. My understanding is that you had no prove of what your former therapist was doing. Everything took place in private, with no witnesses, as it happens in most cases. Besides, even if you'd had any documentation of what went on, her actions were not overtly unethical and could've been interpreted by the board as something benign that you "misunderstood". It is nearly impossible to hold a therapist accountable with no hard evidence. And, if her case had been dismissed that would've added to your already existing trauma. So, it was wise of you not to proceed with the complaint, I think. You are not the only one who'd made that decision. Many people who get harmed in therapy choose not to take action precisely because they know that they won't be able to deal with an additional trauma if their cases get dismissed.

I think it is possible to hurt T just like its possible to hurt any human. Although I think they are trained and well aware that a lot of things can be said more as a projection rather than a direct attack on them as individuals.
I know at times I have felt anger and frustration, probably become snappy and defensive towards her, maybe said I few things that I've regretted but I think she knows it's not personal to her.
Saying that I've never felt the need to be mean or call her names etc, because she's shown me nothing but compassion since I've been there, would it hurt her if I did?! Probably because she's a human with feelings too.

I would intuitively agree with what ididitmyway said although I am not a therapist. Therapy is an imbalanced situation even if it's a relatively open communication between therapist and client and the T really considers feedback from the client. I think it depends on the actual T though. For example, one of mine seemed very hurt about many of my comments to him, he reacted much like a hurt child, it really surprised me as I rarely see that kind of reaction from adults. It was almost like our roles were reversed at times. The way that often happened was very similar to what heretoday said about ididitmyway's posts. I also have a general style and intention to be very direct and say what I think, how I see something or someone etc. That T could not handle that. But he was exceptionally messed I think, probably not average, although I read enough stories here on PC about manipulative, passive aggressive Ts who abuse clients because that's their way to act out their insecurities and negative reactions.

My other therapist told me once in a session that some clients do traumatize them. It wasn't any reference or reaction to what was going on between us, I don't even remember why he said it, sometimes he spoke to me about his experiences as a T, and he was a very composed, considered, rarely reactive person (at least in his role with me).

The question also reminds me of the public shares of ex-therapist Daniel Mackler. He openly speaks about how painful and intense it often was for him to hear clients' stories and to work with them, and he quit the profession at least in part due to that. But he was a T for about a decade, I think.

I also think it is possible that a particular client really rubs a T in intense ways that can be negative in quality (they would often describe this as a countertransference reaction), and that it derails the therapy.

I can't imagine being a very frequent experience for the average T to get intensely hung up on what clients say to them. If for nothing else, people get conditioned to dealing with charged interactions all the time, as part of a job. I think much like doctors adapt to dealing with physical suffering, illness and gore all the time. It's not like they do not notice and do not care to help, really more about getting used to it. I think if someone is interested in their work and tries to make an effort, it can also hurt to handle not seeing result (progress) for long periods of time, which can certainly be the case with mental health issues. That kind of discomfort may come much more from a desire for competency or a sense of lacking it when there is stagnation, but it can still hurt. I think this also lessens a lot over time though when someone has seen many positive outcomes as well - a conflict, piercing comment, or very resistant situation won't collapse self confidence then.

In general though, I really can't imagine that Ts hang onto every word of clients the way many clients do. In addition to conditioning, there simply would not have enough mental energy for that.

Disagree but carry on

There are there for their own benefit first -- shore up insecurities, feel like an expert, play doctor, be the savior, feed off client worship, make a living, and so on.

If the client benefits, that is swell, but it is not a requirement, and the profession continues on regardless.

I think therapists are hurt mainly when their various fantasies are smashed by the realities of therapy. Some of the ones i saw... worst thing a client could say is "this ain't helping" or "this is making things worse".