[CantExplain]

Some of us (and that certainly includes me!) have at times had adversarial relationships with our therapists.

What do we gain from this? Is it therapeutic in the long run? And would it be better to pull the plug and start again with someone more conciliatory?

I would also be interested to hear what therapists have to say about this.

[downandlonely]

I think it's possible for a therapist to be "too nice." I had one like that. She was nice, but seemed to be saying that everything is ok, and I didn't need to do any work to better myself. It might help to have someone to push you to make changes in your life.

But it can go too far in the other direction if you have a therapist that makes you miserable. It's a delicate balance.

[susannahsays]

I like the title of this thread. Although on one hand, I demand to be conceded to and I don't like how the therapist is always disagreeing with me about everything... somehow, it seems like being conciliatory eould rub me the wrong way, as well.

Perhaps the real question is why does it matter at all? Why is the therapist put in a position of power where it matters whether she is an opponent or conciliatory?

[Anastasia~]

I had an adversarial relationship with a previous T near the end, especially. He wasn't well-schooled in what I needed and had his own issues. I wish I had left earlier before the relationship went bad. It wasn't helpful at all to me as the end was near, and in fact, was damaging. So, I found a T who is a really good fit and it has made a huge difference.

[Fuzzybear]

I haven’t found this helpful. I wish I’d pulled the plug on them

I wish I’d left them instead of allowing them to harm me further

[Anne2.0]

I have sparred with my T on occasion but I would not consider the relationship adversarial. T is a safe sparring partner while I improve my fair fighting skills for the others in my life.

[stopdog]

They set it up to be adversarial in my opinion. And you can't hurt a therapist.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by stopdog

They set it up to be adversarial in my opinion. And you can't hurt a therapist.

This has also been my personal experience in this particular forest

However, I learnt a lot

And I continue to learn and grow

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I like the title of this thread. Although on one hand, I demand to be conceded to and I don't like how the therapist is always disagreeing with me about everything... somehow, it seems like being conciliatory eould rub me the wrong way, as well.

Perhaps the real question is why does it matter at all? Why is the therapist put in a position of power where it matters whether she is an opponent or conciliatory?

Good question. Who puts the therapist there?

A former t suggested i watch the old sci fi movie - now i gotta go look it up, with anne francis - Forbidden Planet. Where the point is, we create our own bogeyman in our minds.

[stopdog]

they put themselves there. sometimes clients don't accept it, but often I think they do just like with mds. Therapists tend to think extremely highly of themselves and while they are not forthcoming while actually talking to clients perhaps, just reading their literature shows how they are condescending to clients in how they think.

[unaluna]

Yabbut dear abby used to say, nobody can use you as a doormat without your consent.

[Fuzzybear]

Yabut maybe Abby’s not always “right”

It’s very complex .. far too complex for my fuzzy brain in this heat.

The therapy/client situation.... so many books on it.

I like Yalom.

I wish that T had been Yalom

I don’t have a magic wand and ...

Therapist / doctor as “enemy” - it’s a special sort of crazy

And I’m not crazy

Or rather everyone is crazy...

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

Yabut maybe Abby’s not always “right”

Gasp! Abby was OUR Queen! How dast thee speak against her!

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by stopdog

they put themselves there. sometimes clients don't accept it, but often I think they do just like with mds. Therapists tend to think extremely highly of themselves and while they are not forthcoming while actually talking to clients perhaps, just reading their literature shows how they are condescending to clients in how they think.

I’ve certainly found this too in much of the literature. And yes, why do some therapists think SO highly of themselves.... the most effective and kind therapists do not. They know the Truth - our common humanity. Yalom for example. All for one and one for all.. at least that’s what I learnt, but not from a therapist. And of course, not from the PUS.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Gasp! Abby was OUR Queen! How dast thee speak against her!

She’s a Queen so maybe she knows she’s not always right

[TeaVicar?]

Mine hinted that we would end up arguing, right from the beginning and he has often been provoking. Now I disagree with him in almost every session. Sometimes he argues back. Sometimes we both seem to enjoy that dynamic. Sometimes I just feel empty and exhausted by it, confused as to why I'm still rising to the bait in a relationship that is ultimately dysfunctional.

Part of the reason I started to argue, was because I knew he wanted me to. I get the feeling that he's very pleased with my change in temperament. I wonder if he measures his success as a therapist by it?

[SalingerEsme]

Originally Posted by stopdog

they put themselves there. sometimes clients don't accept it, but often I think they do just like with mds. Therapists tend to think extremely highly of themselves and while they are not forthcoming while actually talking to clients perhaps, just reading their literature shows how they are condescending to clients in how they think.

I so agree with this. After reading extensively and listening to podcasts for therapists by therapists on starting private practices, the attitude toward clients is so condescending.

[SalingerEsme]

This is such an interesting topic. I go through periods of conflict with my T, and it is painful for me if not for him. I usually have to feel utterly cornered to engage in conflict, and I prefer to be a team player, collaborate, and get along. There are times though , he pushes us forward, and I see him as beig too relentless in some way and he sees me as being resistant in some way, and we get oppositional. This takes a big toll on our relationship inside those times, and I feel war-torn and scared. I cant specualte how he feels. I have learned though he has a peculiar, particular way of offering care- which is to always be there. When he is worried about me, he is there early preparing for our session, and he frets about the noise outside the window in case it interferes with his listening. It took me a while to feel this as deeply caring the way it would be if he texted with me etc or had milder boundaries. Lately I've been getting it. He actually hurt my feelings this week, but I recovered by today and had a good session, which is progress for me. I find the conflict very painful when it happens.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Fuzzybear

She’s a Queen so maybe she knows she’s not always right

Yeah, its not like shes the Pope.

Question to the masses here: looking at the posts, it seems like the game of therapy is like football. Sometimes you play offense, sometimes you play defense. But it seems some people dont see it that way - they are always playing defense? What kind of game is that?

[stopdog]

Therapists do a piss poor job of explaining how the game is played. Defending against attack by those people is the only sane response. But I actually do not see therapy as being anything at all like football. Fencing perhaps parry thrust etc. The client has no armour and the therapist has an ironman suit with hidden weapons and they hide the ball, plant minefields and mock the client

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Good question. Who puts the therapist there?

A former t suggested i watch the old sci fi movie - now i gotta go look it up, with anne francis - Forbidden Planet. Where the point is, we create our own bogeyman in our minds.

None of the therapists I have seen had the slightest interest in being the boss of me or exerting power over me in any way. It was always the opposite, in the sense that they wanted me to see how powerful I am. They wanted me to have what I wanted and they wanted to help me reach my own goals, not tell me what to do. I simply cannot imagine a therapist having any authority over me because the ultimate power play is I get to walk away and stop paying them. I suppose they could kick me out, but I've seen nothing in what I've read to indicate this is their goal. It's anti business. In no way do I see the therapist as a kind of authority figure.

I would not pay a therapist to fight with me or to be my opponent in any kind of way. That is not what I go to therapy for. I know how to fight. I'm not so good at collaboration, which is how I would describe this kind of therapy I'm doing right now.

Therapists have to be prepared to receive the projections of every client they see. Some people have roles they like others to play, and one of them is opponent. In my opinion the therapist is an easy one.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Therapists do a piss poor job of explaining how the game is played. Defending against attack by those people is the only sane response. But I actually do not see therapy as being anything at all like football. Fencing perhaps parry thrust etc. The client has no armour and the therapist has an ironman suit with hidden weapons and they hide the ball, plant minefields and mock the client

The therapist actually said “we are shafting each other”.

I didn’t have the armour to rid myself of him and his attacks :-(

Maybe in some odd way he “helped” me with his cruelty and hidden agenda

He did write that I “benefited” ...

But the shrink then said “no benefit” - yeah right

I wish I’d attacked that shrink what a jerk

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by unaluna

Yeah, its not like shes the Pope.

Question to the masses here: looking at the posts, it seems like the game of therapy is like football. Sometimes you play offense, sometimes you play defense. But it seems some people dont see it that way - they are always playing defense? What kind of game is that?

Interesting post. I’m enjoying this discussion

[stopdog]

You can't shaft a therapist. They can be so overly dramatic.

I did not hire a therapist because my life was not working or for a relationship situation. I hired them for one specific area and then when they were completely worthless for that, found that they could be useful if they would just sit there and not talk while I talked about my person and that situation around her illness and death. The therapist did not do anything but stay back and let me hand her money to sit there - frankly that situation was so awful for 4 years that there was nothing even a therapist could have done to me to make anything worse. For the most part, I did not feel the therapist did anything to me -I am good at defense and I never felt like the therapist was an authority but the lack of her ability to explain what was supposed to be going on

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by stopdog

You can't shaft a therapist. They can be so overly dramatic.

Gah ... yes gggrrrrrr