[SarahSweden]

I´ve been with my current T for nine months now and at the moment we have a summer break, she´s on vacation.

She have boundaries already of course but as an example she has occasionally given me hugs at the end of rough sessions, perhaps three times during those months.


She also rather often extend the session by let´s say five or ten minutes. We have some corridors and a piece of stairs to walk through before we get to her office and both to and from her room she talks to me. I find it nice and it´s not that she suddenly talks about private stuff but perhaps like a colleague about the weather, she sometimes say something nice about my clothes and such.


In the therapy room she sometimes sits a bit closer to me and one time, when I sat crying, she offered to put her hand on mine.

Now I´m afraid she´ll suddenly think she has to tighten her boundaries and that she´ll become less friendly, fewer smiles, no comments on my clothes and so on.

I know some T:s uses boundary shifts as a way to bring certain feelings forward and to "make alterations" in the relationship dynamics.


What´s your thoughts and experiences on this?

[DP_2017]

Boundary changes are cruel and often make things worse. Especially with trauma clients and trust issue clients

My t has very "grey area" boundary and i love it. Long storu but a massive rupture in may led to some changes. It didn't last long in my case

However with the suddenness of his trip and the no contact during I'm fearing Tuesday things will really change i hope it's just my anxiety but only time will tell

If it changes suddenly my trust will fly out the window. I really hope yours doesn't either. This is one of the worst things in therapy they think is helpful. Sigh

[SlumberKitty]

Is there a reason that you think your therapist will suddenly change boundaries? Did your T mention changing boundaries or have you noticed subtle changes? Or is it more of a general anxiety about it? It sounds like you have developed some trust with this T and that can cause some vulnerabilities. I wonder if some of the fear is coming from the vulnerable part that trusts your T but perhaps is scared to? I don't know if that fits, it's just what came to my mind. I hope that you can not be so afraid that your T will change boundaries.

[winterblues17]

Whilst I understand and agree that boundaries are needed and put in place for Therapists and Clients alike. I do agree that the changing of boundaries without prior conversations or violations of privacy etc are very damaging to a client, especially those with trust issues already.
I find it very worrying when I read about Ts sudden boundary changing or if any get imposed on me, it kinda fuels a sense of abandonment or anxiety issues.

[feileacan]

My thoughts about this are that the changes in boundaries are not very likely, unless some borderline'ish features start to emerge. It's not entirely impossible that this will happen, considering that you seem to have repressed a lot of you for a long time. Who knows what you will find from within.

However, just based on reading about how your therapy is proceeding right now, it doesn't seem like there is any reason for your T to change the boundaries (unless something unexpected happens in her life of course, which in that case would have nothing to do with you though).

[satsuma]

I think this forum is a great resource, and it's helped me a lot to hear other people's experiences of therapy. But I'm just wondering whether your worry comes from hearing about things that have gone wrong in other people's therapy? It could plant seeds of anxiety about things that might not really be an issue for your therapist? Sorry if I am wrong. It's just something that occurred to me because as another poster said there is nothing you have said about your T that seems to suggest that she would suddenly change her boundaries.

[DP_2017]

Satsuma

For me that's a big part of it. My t does not like me going on forum for this reason. I was doing well but now I'm not

[weaverbeaver]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

I´ve been with my current T for nine months now and at the moment we have a summer break, she´s on vacation.

She have boundaries already of course but as an example she has occasionally given me hugs at the end of rough sessions, perhaps three times during those months.


She also rather often extend the session by let´s say five or ten minutes. We have some corridors and a piece of stairs to walk through before we get to her office and both to and from her room she talks to me. I find it nice and it´s not that she suddenly talks about private stuff but perhaps like a colleague about the weather, she sometimes say something nice about my clothes and such.


In the therapy room she sometimes sits a bit closer to me and one time, when I sat crying, she offered to put her hand on mine.

Now I´m afraid she´ll suddenly think she has to tighten her boundaries and that she´ll become less friendly, fewer smiles, no comments on my clothes and so on.

I know some T:s uses boundary shifts as a way to bring certain feelings forward and to "make alterations" in the relationship dynamics.


What´s your thoughts and experiences on this?

Some ts use new boundaries as a way to evoke ruptures with a view to repairing them. If like me you have suffered relational trauma you will be hyper vigilant for any clues of boundary changes.
In my experience these brought on ruptures never end well or get to the repair stage!
Is your ts boundary change a fear or based on your reality?

[winterblues17]

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

Some ts use new boundaries as a way to evoke ruptures with a view to repairing them. If like me you have suffered relational trauma you will be hyper vigilant for any clues of boundary changes.
In my experience these brought on ruptures never end well or get to the repair stage!
Is your ts boundary change a fear or based on your reality?

Can I ask did your T use boundary changes to create the rupture?! If so did the explain why they evoked a rupture to repair, because I don't really understand, I'm not sure I'd like it if I knew my T did something like that on purpose, but would be interested in the why's and the benefits?

[satsuma]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Satsuma

For me that's a big part of it. My t does not like me going on forum for this reason. I was doing well but now I'm not

I hope you can take good care of yourself! It's great to have you on the forum of course. But a shame that it can cause you anxiety. Perhaps this is also a 'boundaries' issue - I mean in general, not just for you - knowing when to avoid certain things that could be upsetting. I know I've had to learn that.

[weaverbeaver]

Originally Posted by winterblues17

Can I ask did your T use boundary changes to create the rupture?! If so did the explain why they evoked a rupture to repair, because I don't really understand, I'm not sure I'd like it if I knew my T did something like that on purpose, but would be interested in the why's and the benefits?

Yes, I am sure she did. She wants to push through this impasse and to force me to be more relational and to work through issues and not t run away! Those were her words but not in that order.
She certainly helped to bring out my anger and in a streamer way at times it did deepen our relationship because we were both very honest with each other and I saw how much she cared for the first time. Doesn’t make it right but I think a t had to be very experienced in repairing ruptures and they need to let go of their agendas and be aware of client needs in it all!
I hope that explains some of what was happening?

[coolibrarian]

My T and I have "been together" for almost 30 years. During that time, her boundaries have gradually shifted, sometimes in not-so-good ways, but, mostly, in good ways, at least, good for me, lol. As for the bad ways her boundaries have changed, I think we haven't really talked about it, I just adapted to it.
But, since her cancer diagnosis, her boundaries are much looser, at least with me. I can't say if the same is true with her other clients.

[newscribe]

Reply to SarahSweden: How is it for you when your T does these things? Like, what do you feel and what do you think? I’m not suggesting your T is doing anything wrong. So that you can explain to your T would be useful to look at your own boundaries around the things you feel uneasy about. Would that be a way forward for you?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Perhaps not a specific reason but more because I know my T is more physical and has a bit looser boundaries than most T:s. That she suddenly will think that she needs to tighten the boundaries so I won´t think of her as a friend or similar.


I don´t even if I have said to her I feel a warmth towards her.

Yes, I´ve come to trust her and I can show at least some emotions, I´ve cried in session several times. I know some T:s use ways to get the client to trust them and when they see trust has been established they take on a more cold approach so they slowly can take the client towards termination.


That a client suddenly shall adapt to less support. But it´s not that I actually have experienced this with my actual T, more that I´m afraid she´ll act that way.

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

Is there a reason that you think your therapist will suddenly change boundaries? Did your T mention changing boundaries or have you noticed subtle changes? Or is it more of a general anxiety about it? It sounds like you have developed some trust with this T and that can cause some vulnerabilities. I wonder if some of the fear is coming from the vulnerable part that trusts your T but perhaps is scared to? I don't know if that fits, it's just what came to my mind. I hope that you can not be so afraid that your T will change boundaries.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. It´s not me who has initiated hugs for example or the chats to and from her office so it´s not me who demands this. But I´m afraid she´ll find us getting too close and that she´ll feel the need to establish more distance although it´s her who offered hugs for example.

But it´s only in my head so far but not so far fetched as I´ve read about lots of examples of T:s who at first want to tie their clients to them and then brushes them off.

Originally Posted by feileacan

My thoughts about this are that the changes in boundaries are not very likely, unless some borderline'ish features start to emerge. It's not entirely impossible that this will happen, considering that you seem to have repressed a lot of you for a long time. Who knows what you will find from within.

However, just based on reading about how your therapy is proceeding right now, it doesn't seem like there is any reason for your T to change the boundaries (unless something unexpected happens in her life of course, which in that case would have nothing to do with you though).

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, you´re right about that that my worry to a large extent comes from reading about other people in therapy and also from therapy litterature. But a little part of it stems from my experiences with my very first T several years ago. She first let me send her e-mails and then suddenly refused to read them without talking to me about it first.


It hurt me rather severely and was partly why that therapy ended.

I really hope my current T isn´t "experimenting" with boundaries as I know some T:s use this method actively to create reactions from the client.

Originally Posted by satsuma

I think this forum is a great resource, and it's helped me a lot to hear other people's experiences of therapy. But I'm just wondering whether your worry comes from hearing about things that have gone wrong in other people's therapy? It could plant seeds of anxiety about things that might not really be an issue for your therapist? Sorry if I am wrong. It's just something that occurred to me because as another poster said there is nothing you have said about your T that seems to suggest that she would suddenly change her boundaries.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, my fear lies in what you describe, that some T:s actively use boundary changes as a method. I don´t have very good experiences from relations in general even if I couldn´t perhaps mention them as traumas. But as you say I'm vigilant towards minor changes and interprets them into something larger than is perhaps.

My T hasn´t shown she changes bonundaries, like her acting in one way one session and in another way the next. But I can´t be sure and I don´t want to show her I mistrust her on this or that I want to "poke into" her methods as that´s not what I´m after.

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

Some ts use new boundaries as a way to evoke ruptures with a view to repairing them. If like me you have suffered relational trauma you will be hyper vigilant for any clues of boundary changes.
In my experience these brought on ruptures never end well or get to the repair stage!
Is your ts boundary change a fear or based on your reality?

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. It´s not that my T has actually practised changing boundaries, it´s about my large fear that she some time will. I´ve read a lot about this and how hurt some clients get and how they think of their T:s as a large part of their lives and suddenly that changes when the T:s can't handle it and feel the clients have gotten too close to them.


My fear is that´ll happen to me.

Originally Posted by newscribe

Reply to SarahSweden: How is it for you when your T does these things? Like, what do you feel and what do you think? I’m not suggesting your T is doing anything wrong. So that you can explain to your T would be useful to look at your own boundaries around the things you feel uneasy about. Would that be a way forward for you?

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by SarahSweden

Thanks. It´s not that my T has actually practised changing boundaries, it´s about my large fear that she some time will. I´ve read a lot about this and how hurt some clients get and how they think of their T:s as a large part of their lives and suddenly that changes when the T:s can't handle it and feel the clients have gotten too close to them.


My fear is that´ll happen to me.

Maybe it is something you can bring up with your T. Like say something like, "I'm afraid this is going to happen" and just start off the conversation. I've had some good conversations with my old T that way and it helps me know what she is thinking because I would almost always get it wrong. Maybe that would be a help to you.

[SarahSweden]

Thanks. Yes, in a way I want to but it´s close to like "tell the T how to act" and I don´t want to risk that. If I like tell her she can´t change how she acts towards me, then she perhaps feel that there can´t be progress if I want her to be "the same" always.


It´s also a bit tricky to specify what is meant by a boundary change - is it that she must always hug me from time to time, that she can´t take that away or what would be considered a boundary change.


I realise some changes might be neccessary to question how I act in a situation, that she can´t always be supportive and agree to what I tell her. But it´s very difficult as it to me rather fast spirals down to a T I no longer want to share things with.

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

Maybe it is something you can bring up with your T. Like say something like, "I'm afraid this is going to happen" and just start off the conversation. I've had some good conversations with my old T that way and it helps me know what she is thinking because I would almost always get it wrong. Maybe that would be a help to you.

Originally Posted by feileacan

My thoughts about this are that the changes in boundaries are not very likely, unless some borderline'ish features start to emerge. It's not entirely impossible that this will happen, considering that you seem to have repressed a lot of you for a long time. Who knows what you will find from within.

However, just based on reading about how your therapy is proceeding right now, it doesn't seem like there is any reason for your T to change the boundaries (unless something unexpected happens in her life of course, which in that case would have nothing to do with you though).

Does borderlineish mean abandonment fears and the related behaviors?

[feileacan]

Originally Posted by guileless

Does borderlineish mean abandonment fears and the related behaviors?

Sorry, Sarah, OT:
I guess so. Also intense rage and manipulation to frustrate the other person. I myself did few quite terrible things in session - I slammed the doors and threw stuff around and refused to leave sessions. I called my T after these sessions because I was afraid that he would leave me (because of my behaviour) and when it seemed that we are fine and he would only say that we need to talk about it next session, my fear left and the rage came back and I told him on the phone that we will not talk about anything etc etc.

I don't have BPD but it turned out that I do have a very borderline'ish part that emerged and got loose this way. It really sounds strange to say it (and many people probably hate me to say it) but only tightening the boundaries (up to the point of the T planning to terminate me after I had threatened him physically) calmed this furious creature inside me. Not calmed necessarily but it is now better confined in the sessions and as I am this creature I am forced to find ways to express my intense rage and horror without acting out this way.

[Merope]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Satsuma

For me that's a big part of it. My t does not like me going on forum for this reason. I was doing well but now I'm not

I second this. While this forum has helped me tremendously, it also made me more anxious about the therapeutic relationship and made me worry about things I wouldn’t normally worry about. Once, I read a lot of stuff on termination and I went into my session saying that I’m worried he’ll get bored of me and cut my sessions short. He seemed perplexed and mentioned that when I say stuff like this it takes him a little by surprise because it tends to just spring up out of the blue. That’s the first time I realised PC got into my subconscious because looking back, he had given me zero reasons to assume anything would change between us.

[AnnaBegins]

Originally Posted by DP_2017

Boundary changes are cruel and often make things worse. Especially with trauma clients and trust issue clients.

This. Very this.

[Taylor27]

I think boundaries should be talked about at the start and not changed unless a big voliation happened. I don't think your t would do that to you. I too often worry about my t changing bounderies because my old one used too all the time. It was very hard and still today i find i get anxiety still over bounderies . I would bring it up to your t and it probably would help ease your mind.