[Rive1976]

I am going to post her reply to me after I told her the first time I cut. Decipher it for me please

The first one is about bad sexual thoughts i started having as a kid about kids:

She said-the bad thoughts are a reflection of your subconcious desire to get to the truth (if I was abused) and fear of the truth.

So i asked if she was annoyed i couldnt believe i was sexually abused.
She said- not annoyed just more curious about the energy you put into avoiding the exploration that could explain your thoughts and actions,relieve you of guilt and give you a better quality of life.

Help me understand

[downandlonely]

Many people who are sexually attracted to children were sexually abused when they were children. But I don't think that it's the case for all of them. Your T seems to believe that you were sexually abused and that you are afraid to explore that possibility. Do you feel afraid or are you just absolutely sure you were never abused?

[susannahsays]

I wonder if maybe your therapist is uncomfortable with the thoughts you had, and that's why she is pushing to put you into the victim role - to make her more comfortable. I would bring this concern up with her. I would also ask her why she thinks it's necessary for you to have been sexually abused to be relieved of guilt. Thoughts aren't themselves wrong, so why does she feel like you need a defense for yours to be absolved? I mean, you haven't acted on your thoughts, right? I absolutely reject the idea that bad thoughts are a subconscious desire to get to the truth and fear of the truth. There are plenty of pedophiles who admit they've been sexually abused, and that doesn't magically resolve their attraction to children. What a crock of bs.

I do not think you should try to convince yourself you were abused just to please your therapist or in an attempt to normalize your thoughts about children.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by downandlonely

Many people who are sexually attracted to children were sexually abused when they were children. But I don't think that it's the case for all of them. Your T seems to believe that you were sexually abused and that you are afraid to explore that possibility. Do you feel afraid or are you just absolutely sure you were never abused?

I am afraid it might land me in the hospital or I may end up dissociating in front of my therapist or where I live and that would be bad.

[susannahsays]

Dissociating won't land you in the hospital.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I wonder if maybe your therapist is uncomfortable with the thoughts you had, and that's why she is pushing to put you into the victim role - to make her more comfortable. I would bring this concern up with her. I would also ask her why she thinks it's necessary for you to have been sexually abused to be relieved of guilt. Thoughts aren't themselves wrong, so why does she feel like you need a defense for yours to be absolved? I mean, you haven't acted on your thoughts, right? I absolutely reject the idea that bad thoughts are a subconscious desire to get to the truth and fear of the truth. There are plenty of pedophiles who admit they've been sexually abused, and that doesn't magically resolve their attraction to children. What a crock of bs.

I do not think you should try to convince yourself you were abused just to please your therapist or in an attempt to normalize your thoughts about children.

Because I told her the only way I could feel a little better about the thoughts is if I had been abused. I told her it would be short lived though because alot of abused people dont have those thoughts.

I am not sure why she is pushing me to believe it if I dont know thats what caused them. I mean the therapist before her tried to convince me I was so I could love myself again and it never happenrd because I dont know. I think she believes EMDR will help but I dont want anybody forcing any memories in. I think she thinks I have some pre verbal trauma. She doesnt believe people are born with these thoughts. Im not so sure thats true.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

Dissociating won't land you in the hospital.

What do you mean? I live in a group home. If i dissociate they will certaintly send me there.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by Dnester

What do you mean? I live in a group home. If i dissociate they will certaintly send me there.

I have lived in a group home. That's crazy, why would they do that? Do you become violent?

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I have lived in a group home. That's crazy, why would they do that? Do you become violent?

No but the group homes where I live suck..

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Dnester

So i asked if she was annoyed i couldnt believe i was sexually abused.
She said- not annoyed just more curious about the energy you put into avoiding the exploration that could explain your thoughts and actions,relieve you of guilt and give you a better quality of life.

Help me understand

I guess for me there is a big difference between the therapist saying you were abused and the therapist saying you avoid exploring the possibility that you were abused. I don't see the therapist pushing you to agree that you were abused, but to simply not deny the possibility and to consider that it might be one.

If you don't allow yourself to explore the possibility, whether this therapist means EMDR or whatever therapeutic tools she might have, then you are missing out on a chance to discover something about yourself. It seems kind of familiar in the way that people sometimes talk about "coming out" in therapy. In that context, I don't think that therapists say to people "you are gay." What they do is encourage people to learn more about themselves and figure out whether they might be. The therapist seems to be talking about the exploration-- which could lead to (in the analogy) any number of outcomes about sexuality and the sexual behavior of the client. It's what the behavior (say client having a same sex affair) means-- is it that the person is just bored with their marriage and the gender of the person is irrelevant? Is the person's sexuality more fluid, like bi or whatever. Is the person gay? Etc.

Just like engaging in any kind of sexual behavior holds the potential for different meanings about who a person it, I think your therapist is trying to get you to see there are various possibilities about the thoughts you have. If you refuse to consider a certain one, or ones, then you lose the possibility of finding the truth. I don't see her as trying to tell you what your truth is, I see her as encouraging you to find out the truth about yourself.

Reading your later posts, I wonder if some of your reluctance is because it doesn't sound like you have a safe place to live. I'm not sure about what your exact fears of dissociation are, but I've dissociated in therapy a whole bunch of times and it's been ok. A dissociation isn't a major freak out, or at least it's not for me. So I'm not sure of the implications for your living situation but have you discussed this with your therapist? I can see how fears about the side effects of trauma work would keep you from wanting to do it.

[Rive1976]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I guess for me there is a big difference between the therapist saying you were abused and the therapist saying you avoid exploring the possibility that you were abused. I don't see the therapist pushing you to agree that you were abused, but to simply not deny the possibility and to consider that it might be one.

If you don't allow yourself to explore the possibility, whether this therapist means EMDR or whatever therapeutic tools she might have, then you are missing out on a chance to discover something about yourself. It seems kind of familiar in the way that people sometimes talk about "coming out" in therapy. In that context, I don't think that therapists say to people "you are gay." What they do is encourage people to learn more about themselves and figure out whether they might be. The therapist seems to be talking about the exploration-- which could lead to (in the analogy) any number of outcomes about sexuality and the sexual behavior of the client. It's what the behavior (say client having a same sex affair) means-- is it that the person is just bored with their marriage and the gender of the person is irrelevant? Is the person's sexuality more fluid, like bi or whatever. Is the person gay? Etc.

Just like engaging in any kind of sexual behavior holds the potential for different meanings about who a person it, I think your therapist is trying to get you to see there are various possibilities about the thoughts you have. If you refuse to consider a certain one, or ones, then you lose the possibility of finding the truth. I don't see her as trying to tell you what your truth is, I see her as encouraging you to find out the truth about yourself.

Reading your later posts, I wonder if some of your reluctance is because it doesn't sound like you have a safe place to live. I'm not sure about what your exact fears of dissociation are, but I've dissociated in therapy a whole bunch of times and it's been ok. A dissociation isn't a major freak out, or at least it's not for me. So I'm not sure of the implications for your living situation but have you discussed this with your therapist? I can see how fears about the side effects of trauma work would keep you from wanting to do it.

I havent yet but I am going to. I would be super embarassed if I dissociated in front of T. And really embarrased if that happened here (home)and afraid.

[susannahsays]

I'm a little bit confused about this dissociation element. Is dissociation a symptom you have experienced, or are you just worried that you may experience it because your therapist is convinced you have a CSA history you are repressing, and dissociation would not be a surprising part of something like that? About the group home, I'm not trying to doubt what you're saying. I know many group homes are really terrible. At the same time, I'm wondering if you have concrete reasons to think they would put you in the hospital, or if you are being a bit paranoid. After all, they don't get paid if they send you to the hospital. If you are hospitalized, they have to decide whether to discharge you, which means they have to find someone else to fill your bed, or take the financial hit while you are away. So if you're not a liability - not a danger to yourself or others - I don't understand why they would choose to lose the money. Can you elaborate on why you think they would hospitalized you? C dissociated tons when I was in the group home. She would be curled up in fetal position in her closet and they didn't send her to the hospital.

As for dissociating in front of your therapist... Well, I don't agree when people say therapists have seen it all. However, it sounds like your therapist is at least trained in EMDR, which is primarily used for trauma. I guarantee she has seen people dissociate before. Do you think it would make her think less of you? What exactly is the fear behind the embarrassment?

[Rive1976]

I doubt anyone here has seen anyone dissociate. So it would probably scare them. As far as my therapist my therapist I have only seen her for 5 and 1/2 months so it would be extremely embarassing for her to see me do that. Plus since I dont know her well I may even be afraid.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by Dnester

I doubt anyone here has seen anyone dissociate.

What makes you say that?

Originally Posted by Dnester

I doubt anyone here has seen anyone dissociate. So it would probably scare them. As far as my therapist my therapist I have only seen her for 5 and 1/2 months so it would be extremely embarassing for her to see me do that. Plus since I dont know her well I may even be afraid.

Fair enough that you just don't feel comfortable with it happening in front of her. I'm still not clear on if you have actually experienced dissociation, though. As for being afraid, well, I can't say you wouldn't be, but dissociation tends to lower fear, at least consciously. It wouldn't be such an effective trauma response otherwise.

[Rive1976]

Yes I have dissociated with my last therapist. She told me she had seen me dissociate. I didnt ask her further about it and was never aware of it. I have been here 2 and a half years no one has dissociated. They arent familiar with it and not equipped to deal with it here. My therapist and psych np are not in this building.

[susannahsays]

It's possible she felt you were dissociating at times that you do actually remember, you know. Dissociation with amnesia is at the far end of the spectrum and there's no reason from what you've said to assume that's what happened. I honestly feel like you're not clear on what dissociation is, tbh. You seem to think it's always something super dramatic, like a black out rage or something. I don't see how you would know if anyone else in your group home had ever dissociated. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, dissociates to some extent, even if it's just when completing the mundane tasks of everyday life. I suggest you discuss this concern with your therapist. Hopefully she can provide some psychoeducation that would put your mind at ease.

[Rive1976]

Im afraid of dissociating to the point I regress to a child like state. Even just dissociating a little in therapy is embarassing because I dont know her.

[feralkittymom]

Dnester, I have to agree that I don't think you fully understand what dissociation/depersonalization is. It is not a hypnotic state, nor a psychotic one. Unless you have DID, and you've never indicated that you do, it is very unlikely that it would involve any regression on your part (and my understanding with DID is that it isn't true regression, but the coming forward of an alter.) Generally it's experienced as a "tuning out" to varying degrees. My former T was quite excellent, highly attuned, and extremely observant: it took him a while before he could "catch" when I would dissociate. My "tell" was that I would become unnaturally still, barely breathing, and my gaze would become unvarying. I was still aware of where I was, and I could usually hear him, and occasionally respond to him (not always), but I would feel very far away, and my perspective of the room, placement of furniture, and our physical proximity would shift.

[Rive1976]

I know what dissociating is. I dont want to even tune out. They send you to the hospital for stupid stuff here. Also I dont want to even tune out with my therapist. I dont know her that well.

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by Dnester

I doubt anyone here has seen anyone dissociate. So it would probably scare them. As far as my therapist my therapist I have only seen her for 5 and 1/2 months so it would be extremely embarassing for her to see me do that. Plus since I dont know her well I may even be afraid.

You DOUBT anyone here has ever seen someone dissociate? That's mighty bold of you. What makes you so sure?

[Rive1976]

No not on here lol where I live. Its mainly old people.

[feralkittymom]

I'm sorry--I don't understand your experience or what you're afraid of. Your statements just don't make any sense to me on their face, so hopefully your T can understand you better. Good luck.

[Rive1976]

I used to dissociate Id stare up in the corner, not be listening to my therapist and just away. I dont know this therapist that and would feel very vulnerable. I also live in a assisted living facilty. they sent this one guy to the psych hospital for just looking dazed. Turns out he was just tipsy. There are mainly old people here. My psych np and therapist dont come here. I go to them. So the owner wont understand whats going on if that happens. The first thing she would do is send me to the psych hospital. I cant go back to the psych hospital because they told me I would be going to the state hospital for a very long time. I have a history of cutting.

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by Dnester

No not on here lol where I live. Its mainly old people.

Ooops, sorry. I thought you meant PC.

It seems to me that "old people" (and by "old," how old do you mean?) might have more of an experience seeing someone dissociate, simply because they (the old people) have lived longer!

[Rive1976]

[QUOTE=coolibrarian;6232627]Ooops, sorry. I thought you meant PC.

It seems to me that "old people" (and by "old," how old do you mean?) might have more of an experience seeing someone dissociate, simply because they (the old people) have lived longer![/QUOTE

I am saying no one here is dealing with trauma. I am only one of three that arent older here. The owner of the building is who I am worried about. She makes the decisions about who goes to the hospital. This is just a ALF. People live here when their family cant keep them
.Anyway I am going to talk to my therapist tommorow and come up with a plan.