[weaverbeaver]

Just as the title says, I got a phone call today from out of the blue from ex t.
She wanted to know how I was getting on and if I would like to meet up with her!
I am not sure how to feel about this as it didn’t end well between us and because of what’s happening with current t and I wonder if they have been talking. Maybe I am going bonkers and paranoid but it is possible since they do know each other.

[SlumberKitty]

((Weaverbeaver)) I don't know how I would feel about that either. It seems like a loose boundary which may or may not be a good thing. I don't know what I would do in your shoes. Do you want to see your old T? You said it didn't end well. Do you think meeting up with old T would clear up some of the not ending well? Sorry if this reply isn't much help. I think I would be bewildered in your shoes.

[Echos Myron redux]

This reminds me a lot of my first therapist who contacted me out of the blue wanting to "catch up".

You are in a vulnerable place right now having just gone through a difficult ending with recent T (if old T knows about that it sounds like a confidentiality violation). It is a shame this has happened when you are already stirred up, it was hard enough for me when it happened at a time I had a stable relationship with current T.

just want to say, run. Run fast and run far. This can only spell further anguish for you, it's not ethical to mess with your head to meet her own needs.

[satsuma]

I think I would feel scared if that happened to me, about the at T's motive was and how things would turn out. Especially if it didn't end well between you. I guess if you moved on, it was for a good reason - perhaps it's helpful to remember about why you're not still working together (I mean doing therapy with that T)?

I would not want to meet an ex-T for any outside of therapy program. Maybe catch up via email would be the max but I would ask myself what my possible benefit could be.

This seems like a very curious turn of events.

How about meeting the ex-therapist and taking a supporter with you to act as witness or advocate should you need it? You could ask direct questions about potential breaches of confidentiality, contact between the therapists, collusion etc., and have your supporter take minutes.

It feels like some transparency is needed. Opening up these complicated, borderline unprofessional and intense therapeutic relationships to an external third party could be very empowering for you.

Either that or run a mile.

[weaverbeaver]

I really don’t know what her agenda is and it terrifies me. I liked this t and I worked well with her for two years but then I found out that she lied to me about something and I couldn’t get over it enough to continue working with her!

She is a supervisor and so is my current t so I know they would be at meetings together and would know each other so I am mostly worried about that.

I am kinda curious to see her but my gut says no I can’t take anymore betrayals from ts at the moment.

[Ididitmyway]

I understand why it might feel tempting to "catch" up with the ex-therapist outside of the professional settings, but I wouldn't do it.

It's very inappropriate, borderline unethical, for a therapist to contact a former client to see if they want to grab coffee and "catch up". Any therapist who does that should be put on the "red alert". Such behavior is a clear sign that they don't understand the meaning of boundaries in therapy, they don't understand the vulnerable position of their former client, and so they can and, most likely will, easily hurt the client eventually.

I really hope you will be able to exercise some self-care in this case and to follow rational reasoning instead of emotional impulses, as understandable as those impulses might be.

[Deejay14]

Weaver I agree with Ididitmyway. Especially if you are terrified do not go. She may well have no agenda, but it's not good boundaries.

[weaverbeaver]

She didn’t even mention boundaries. I haven’t been to her in about four years so that’s a long time, maybe long enough?
She sounded lonely and I felt sorry for her.
Her boundaries have always been a bit lax and this is why I liked her. She kept me in sessions longer worked on Saturdays and was complete opposite to my current t. What could it hurt to meet with her for an hour.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

Just as the title says, I got a phone call today from out of the blue from ex t.
She wanted to know how I was getting on and if I would like to meet up with her!
I am not sure how to feel about this as it didn’t end well between us and because of what’s happening with current t and I wonder if they have been talking. Maybe I am going bonkers and paranoid but it is possible since they do know each other.

Even if they know each other, it would be unethical for them to talk about you unless you signed a release form. Otherwise different professions (M.D., Psych, SWorker, etc) have different ethics about contacting a former client or social relationships in general after the ending of therapy.

In your shoes, I think I bring it up in session with current T to talk about it and get some clarity for myself. While a gut reaction can often be useful, it doesn't mean it's always right. The gut may flare for danger, real or imagined, just like the brain in fight or flight. It may make you nervous but maybe it would be useful to go.

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

She didn’t even mention boundaries. I haven’t been to her in about four years so that’s a long time, maybe long enough?
She sounded lonely and I felt sorry for her.
Her boundaries have always been a bit lax and this is why I liked her. She kept me in sessions longer worked on Saturdays and was complete opposite to my current t. What could it hurt to meet with her for an hour.

In the best case maybe nothing else but your mind would be preoccupied with her and whatever she wants, unnecessarily? One more thing to be anxious about that perhaps would not do more good to you just satisfy a curiosity and some vague desire to be nice to her?

I had a T who contacted me more than once after I left therapy with him when things went really sour and it basically became a useless frustration for me. He very clearly contacted me because he felt uncomfortable and disturbed by our bad ending. I made the mistake to respond, go back to a session to potentially discuss the rupture in a more civil way, and even months later I responded to yet another phone call. All of these efforts went horribly wrong and I really regretted it - they just generated preoccupations and anger in my mind that were never there before and were solely due to his wrongdoings and manipulations. There was zero benefit from getting back in touch with him for me, I never even liked him much, and there weren't really useful lessons either.

[Ididitmyway]

If you meet once with her for an hour, you will want to meet again and again and again..and this will develop into a relationship that will still continue to carry the imbalance of power between you and her meaning that she will always be in a more psychologically powerful and you will always be in a more psychologically vulnerable position, and yet she'll take the liberty to do things that people only do in equal relationships. She'd always have the choice to act either as a "friend" or as an "authority", whatever role suits her best in the moment. You will never have the same choice. This means she can always play with you however she pleases. This is what "exploitation" means in a nutshell.

[stopdog]

I met the first woman for coffee (iced tea) recently at her request. It did not go badly. I doubt it will ever happen again, but it was not an unmitigated disaster.

I am not encouraging you to go- the therapists you describe have sounded like they were unmitigated disasters to deal with -more just saying it doesn't actually have to be horrible.

[chihirochild]

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

She sounded lonely and I felt sorry for her.

That sounds like an *excellent* reason not to go.

[feralkittymom]

She lied to you. She violated professional ethics--doesn't matter if she's retired or not--by initiating contact with you for her purposes (whatever they are doesn't really matter.) She already has you in a bit of turmoil. What would you have to gain?

[peacelizard]

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

Just as the title says, I got a phone call today from out of the blue from ex t.
She wanted to know how I was getting on and if I would like to meet up with her!
I am not sure how to feel about this as it didn’t end well between us and because of what’s happening with current t and I wonder if they have been talking. Maybe I am going bonkers and paranoid but it is possible since they do know each other.

Eh. I'm generally not the paranoid type and I'd be suspicious of that too. Maybe it's coming from a genuine place, but it doesn't sound like good judgement or setting appropriate boundaries, especially if it didn't end well and this was even remotely recent.

It might not be against the law or APA guidelines, but I'd be quite surprised if this wasn't seriously frowned upon

[Myrto]

While coincidences happen, it's too much of a coincidence that this ex therapist is contacting you right after you've been terminated (do I have this right? hopefully I'm not confusing you with someone else). Especially since you say they know each other. This is already all kinds of terrible because that means your current therapist violated your confidentiality. Also why on earth is this ex therapist contacting you? Nothing good can come out of this I think. But I understand being tempted to go, I really do. I would be tempted too honestly. My ex therapist (that I saw for two and a half years) called me 6 months ago. I had deleted her number but I recognized it instantly. I picked up (curiosity was too strong!) and said "hello" 3 times and no answer. I hung up. I wondered whether she had butt dialed me. But I didn't call back, instead I blocked her number. All this to say that I just think that reengaging in something so messy (from what you seem to be saying) has the potential to suck you in again. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

[weaverbeaver]

Maybe if I took away the fact that was my therapist and somebody asked to meet up for a coffee- would we automatically assume we had to gain something from meeting them?
She did lie to me and she was my ex therapist those things are certain but maybe she is a genuinely nice person and I am being paranoid.
She did wait a while before initiating contact!

[elisewin]

If you genuinely like her and/or want to catch up over a cup of coffee, then do so. If you rather not, then don't think of her being sad because of you don't do it. You can, but you don't have to. Sometimes people make this stuff way too complicated.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by weaverbeaver

Maybe if I took away the fact that was my therapist and somebody asked to meet up for a coffee- would we automatically assume we had to gain something from meeting them?
She did lie to me and she was my ex therapist those things are certain but maybe she is a genuinely nice person and I am being paranoid.
She did wait a while before initiating contact!

There's no point in making the situation hypothetical unless you're trying to "allow" yourself to meet her. The picture you've painted of this person is a negative one. Why the doubts now? And it doesn't matter that she waited: while she isn't subject to the APA ethical guidelines professionally (if I remember, you aren't in the US), it's still a widely held belief for very good reasons that Ts don't initiate contact with former clients for their own social purposes (not speaking about past financial obligations, legal obligations, insurance purposes, record keeping, etc.)

[weaverbeaver]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

There's no point in making the situation hypothetical unless you're trying to "allow" yourself to meet her. The picture you've painted of this person is a negative one. Why the doubts now? And it doesn't matter that she waited: while she isn't subject to the APA ethical guidelines professionally (if I remember, you aren't in the US), it's still a widely held belief for very good reasons that Ts don't initiate contact with former clients for their own social purposes (not speaking about past financial obligations, legal obligations, insurance purposes, record keeping, etc.)

They are not negative- I said she lied! I didn’t go into any context about why she lied or what she lied about, perhaps you see lying as negative!

I am nit in the US- there are strict rules about meeting a therapist after therapy. I think at least 5 years have to have passed.
I am trying to allow myself to meet her because I am a firm believer in second chances and hearing someone out.

[weaverbeaver]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I understand why it might feel tempting to "catch" up with the ex-therapist outside of the professional settings, but I wouldn't do it.


It's very inappropriate, borderline unethical, for a therapist to contact a former client to see if they want to grab coffee and "catch up". Any therapist who does that should be put on the "red alert". Such behavior is a clear sign that they don't understand the meaning of boundaries in therapy, they don't understand the vulnerable position of their former client, and so they can and, most likely will, easily hurt the client eventually.


I really hope you will be able to exercise some self-care in this case and to follow rational reasoning instead of emotional impulses, as understandable as those impulses might be.

That’s it, it is an emotional impulse telling me to meet her, it’s my attachment to her, the little part that wants to be loved.
This t was like a mother to me, she was much more kind and caring than current T. I really liked her, I trusted her until she didn’t disclose something to me which I felt was important to my working with her and I couldn’t work with her anymore.

[feralkittymom]

Yeah, I do see someone lying to me as a negative.


But if you have no conflict about seeing her, why the thread? You're the one posting that her lying to you caused you to stop seeing her and that the thought of seeing her again terrifies you. That all sounds pretty negative.


See her or don't see her; but asking for input to try to make sense of a situation and then getting huffy and reversing your presentation is pretty ridiculous.

[weaverbeaver]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Yeah, I do see someone lying to me as a negative.


But if you have no conflict about seeing her, why the thread? You're the one posting that her lying to you caused you to stop seeing her and that the thought of seeing her again terrifies you. That all sounds pretty negative.


See her or don't see her; but asking for input to try to make sense of a situation and then getting huffy and reversing your presentation is pretty ridiculous.

Well you are the one choosing to reply to my thread.
Do or don’t It’s it’s your choice.
I am entitled to ask for support the same as everyone else.
If you want to judge me fine.