Attachment vs. dependency

I have noticed something for a while now on here and was wondering what you guys think of this.

I feel like a lot of people use the words attachment and dependency interchangeably.

To me, attachment is the feeling of having some sort of bond to a person. This bond might take many forms, but there's some kind of connection. However, if I feel attached to somebody, it would not lead to me falling apart if that person vanished from my life (whether on purpose or not). I mean, yes, I might grieve, be sad, angry, all that. But I could easily find new fulfilling relationships that make up for this one. It might never be the exact same, but just as good. As an example with my T: if I'm attached and the T terminates me, I'd probably be angry and sad, I'd grieve the loss of the relationship. But I'd also feel that I can replace my T. I'd go out, find a new one and continue the work.

Now, dependency is a bit different. While of course there's also attachment going on, it's much stronger. It's the feeling of 'without this person, I can't continue the same way'. I'd not only grieve if the relationship ends, I'd not see any point in finding somebody new or I'd at least feel that nobody could have a similar relationship with me. So, if my T would terminate me and I'm dependent, then I'd grieve, but I'd not feel like I could go out and find a new one. I'd maybe try (and at some point hopefully realize that I was indeed wrong about it not being similar), but it would feel quite hopeless, like my T was the only one who understood me or could help me.

Maybe another example to see some form of contrast: imagine somebody's T is on vacation and they are in some sort of crisis that they can't deal with on their own. If the person is attached to their T, but not dependent, they'd know they are in crisis and need help, maybe they'd even feel that their T would encourage them to reach out to someone. So they'd go to a doctor, a second T that can fit them in or to the ER, depending on the situation. They'd get some kind of help that keeps them going until their T is back. They'd probably prefer to then work with their T again, because that's the person they are most attached to, but until then they can somehow ask for help from others.
But if there was dependency, it would look more like this: the person feels that the only person that can truly help them is their T. And the T is not there. They'd freak out about that fact, get even more upset, and end up either somehow contacting their T (even if this is futile), might use unhealthy coping skills and so on. It's not about what exactly they do, the important part is that they realize that they'd need outside help, but they feel the only person that can help is T, so they'd not reach out to anyone else until T is back.

Maybe I am just reading a lot of posts the wrong way, but it feels to me that often people say 'I'm attached to my T' and then afterwards talk about feelings so strong that to me it doesn't sound like just being attached, it sounds like some form of dependency. So I wonder what other people's definition of these two words is, what exactly is attachment to you and how does it differ from dependency?

The attachment part is a bond, I agree. With some it's much stronger than with others.

If you google the dependency piece when it comes to this issue, it's much more about the need to get their advice before making choices, to tell them everything you do and make sure they are ok with it, frequent contact etc. It's more like you are literally depending on them, rather than yourself, to make your own life choices or progress etc

I think for some people, like myself, I have AVPD and SA... so I don't WANT other relationships, not because he's my everything (he isn't, my dog is LOL) but because I don't want any close relationships. I don't thrive on them. I don't need them. I very much am independent. There is always a degree of dependency in therapy, but for me, it's in the room. I'm depending on him to listen and do his job. Outside the room? Sure I miss him sometimes, sure I love talking to him and wish we could more, yes I'd be sad as heck if he left my life but I can manage on my own. I always have. In fact, there was one point when I started to feel the closeness of the attachment in a bit stronger way and it freaked me out, I backed away a ton. I can't allow myself to depend on or need anyone like that.

It's a huge reason why I also have my own boundaries. I could easily be contacting him daily but it wouldn't do me any good. I'm attached because he matters to me. He's one of the only people in my life I trust and feel comfortable with. He's fun to talk to and really good to me... but I'm not dependent on him. I've never gone to him for advice and actually there's time's he's offered things and I'm like "No thanks"

Sometimes I tell him about a big choice in my life (like selling my home) but it's AFTER I do it, after I've made that choice myself. I've always had this independent/stubborn streak in me and maybe it's why I love huskies so much

So yes I'm attached/bonded, yes he means a lot to me.... yes I miss him sometimes and get sad thinking about him out of my life someday but no I don't need to contact him constantly or tell him every little issue I'm having, I can function in my life without him there. That's where I think the two things differ.

I very much agree, OP. I also briefly talked about similar things here and there on this forum. But I think the people who post a lot about struggling with "attachment" typically mean an insecure kind that often generates a lot of obsession and dependency. I personally also do not experience attachment to people as consuming or painful, not even something I consciously tend to be preoccupied with - more a base emerging with a compatible, mutually fulfilling relationship. I had a couple obsessive ones in my life (not Ts) but they very much felt like addictions for me (they felt very similar to substance addiction), not dependency per se (as I never relied on them for important things in my life) but nothing like what I like to call attachment. I think these term are vague enough to be used interchangeably and infuse with personal interpretations.

I think that "dependency" is overblown in the U.S., and probably at least some of the Western world, at least in our belief that personal "independence" is some kind of lofty ideal and anyone who differs from that is a loser. If it helps someone to talk to others, even, shock, asking for advice about a difficult situation, why label that "dependency," when it doesn't distinguish from someone who can't make her own choices but does what other people want (co-dependency).

For me attachment is a bond as well as a genuine and honest and open relationship with a person. That includes my T. I like the fact that I am attached to people, including my T, as my relationships with the people in my life are very much a part of who I am. I try hard to not mess them up and to support my family and friends while also being honest with them if they want to hear it. I try to be there without being intrusive. So attachment carries with it a desire for the other's well being, and that includes my T, even though my behavioral execution of wanting good things for others is sometimes clunky.

I do feel like a struggle with attachment to everyone after the loss of my spouse. For awhile I was not interested in getting together with people unless it was something active like an event or exercise or the like. It took a while to feel more secure that attaching to people, even those I've already been attached to, was safe and okay. Like I had to relearn how to attach to people after the loss. This go-around in therapy is deeper because of it, because the loss shook up things I thought were resolved and I was motivated to deal with them more quickly because of that.

I used to have very insecure attachments to people, but I ran on the avoidant side rather than the obsessive side. My first round of therapy 25 years ago, about 5 years until I was done, really helped me with that although I don't recall ever explicitly discussing the relationship with either T. Perhaps the biggest benefit of therapy was that the sessions themselves allowed me to observe myself and figure out what wasn't working for me in my relationships and then to do things differently.

I agree there is a difference and that attachment does not mean dependence - but I also know that in my experience of dealing with therapists, the first one openly stated I should bond with her and depend upon her and she could get agitated when I pretty much didn't in general and would become overly (and bad actingly) excited when I did something she thought meant I did depend on her - it made her so happy (I mean seemingly - I think she was making it up). The second one did not talk about bonding or attaching with me, but she encourage me to depend upon her, would become extra animated in encouraging it, once asked my why I hadn't called her after I had a motorcycle crash, etc. So in my case, they actively tried to get me to bond and wanted me to depend upon them. The second one used to go out of her way to assure me that an act of depending upon her would not cause her to trap me.

I think that with people who have avoidant tendencies, actively urging or encouraging them to develop a bond, expressing an interest in attaching or chasing the person to focus on the relationship is the worst thing one can ever do. I am almost fascinated that Ts, who should know this at least theoretically, would not recognize it or would behave in that way. But I think when they do, it is often driven by their own insecurities and attachment obsessions - this was one of the reasons why my first T and I were such a bad combo. The second one had a good eye for this I think and we never even talked about attachment beyond brief moments. Surprise, I was much more open to him and felt much closer to him effortlessly and without any extremes, therapy attachment just never even occurred as something we felt necessary to discuss. The first T's chasing it contributed to my running in the opposite direction though.

I experience these things in my everyday life as well. Me trying to have a close relationship with someone who quickly develops strong obsessions and dependency and feels hurt for not finding the same is the worst combination that can be. I do think that sometimes similar dynamic plays in the relationships between T and client, when the T happens to be naturally a bit avoidant or just does not understand obsessional attachment from the inside very well, and it is the very thing the client wants to work on deeply. Of course then the client will be inclined to chase what they can never get from that person, not simply due to the formal boundaries but because of the specific interpersonal dynamic. It is challenging on both ends.

I think there's also a huge spectrum of "dependency" as you define it, CNS. With "unable to function if T is unavailable/without T's guidance" at the extreme end. I know I'm one who uses "attachment" when maybe I should use "dependent," but I also feel dependence has strong negative connotations. And the way you define it suggests that a person is *only* dependent on their T.

I do have some level of dependence on my T, but I also have some on H, friends, etc. Similar to what Anne said, I think it's OK to have some sort of dependence on people, to not be entirely independent (not that there's anything wrong with that either!) My T is trying to not have me being entirely dependent on him, but to improve and strengthen my relationships outside of therapy. Are there times when I've been in a really bad place where he might be the first person I want to go to? Yes. (And the same in the past with ex-MC, though to a much greater extent at times). But lately, I'm also often reaching out to others, including H and friends, before necessarily jumping to T (this past weekend being a bit of an exception, but that was a situation involving T, so...it's a bit different). So, I think it's a spectrum, and the ideal is to have a sort of balance.

LT, I think that balance is what the trendy buzzword "interdependence" is meant to describe. Or even what is considered secure attachment.

Also definitely agree that the US culture is particularly individualistic - in fact I realized after quite a few years of staying here that it is a large part of why it ended up being the country where I decided to immigrate, after wandering around many places in my youth. The overblown individualism very much plays into my natural tendencies. Of course the whole thing has many both good and not-so-good elements.

Yes and while I haven't been formally diagnosed with AVPD... being in the groups for it that I am realizing how much those people get me... and reading about it and knowing T thinks it's really what I have, I believe it. I don't personally need a diagnosis. That being said... he used to try heavily to encourage me to go and meet new people and make great friends and try to be more open with my best friend and be closer etc. This really frustrated me because it's not something I WANT or need in life. I know most people can't grasp the idea of it but some people are truly ok without close human relationships. They make me very uncomfortable and I want nothing to do with it. It's why I backed off very much with T. I still get (like this past week) these times when my anxiety over takes me and everything feels too much but I wont reach out to him.

I also wanted to clarify in my other post... I was speaking for my own experience. I am not saying being a independent/stubborn mule like me is the best thing, but it's all I've ever known and it's what I prefer. I was merely trying to explain the difference in dependency and attachment... and not saying either is bad. Either to an extreme probably is but that's also what therapy is supposed to help with for people who have that. Like I said when you google dependency on therapists you will find many things explaining it's more like you can't function without them, you have to get their advice or go to them for almost everything etc. That is what I took my way of explaining from. That and my own experience.

Just for reference, I don't necessarily think dependency is bad (and certainly not that you can only depend on your T, that was more just the usual topic of this forum, so it lends itself to examples). Maybe my examples were chosen to be a bit too extreme, I just wanted to clearly contrast the two ideas. I was just wondering whether when I read somebody saying attached what they really kind of feel is also dependency, or whether there's a difference. Since English is not my native language, it can be confusing at times. And I also know that this might also vary from person to person, I'm just interested on how other people perceive this.

For me this was not the case, if you limit it to the words "encouraging" or "expressing an interest" as what was helpful to me that my T did. "Chasing" would have definitely caused me to run the opposite direction, although it was also my experience in my avoidant days that I could misread "encouragement" as "force" from my T.

I think one of the messages from my past that was powerful was "people will not help you if you ask." It helped me develop my fierce independence and has motivated me through a lot of higher education and career tracks, but it did not particularly help me have satisfying personal relationships. My T's direct encouragement to call them out of session if I needed it or suggest small ways I could delegate responsibility or ask others for help or let my friend or partner know how they could support me was useful. Bringing my avoidant tendencies out into the open in session and reducing my anxiety over asking someone else for help was the only thing that helped me. Because as a very avoidant personal with attachment, I would have avoided forever if my T had not encouraged me. But it was always with a "this is just a suggestion, it is up to you but here's how it might be helpful if you want to try something like this." I never felt pressured or that the T would be disappointed if I didn't do it.

I'm okay with dependency with friends if it's a healthy seeking of support and if it's essentially allowing me to be there for them when they need it. I like being there for my friends when I can.

But someone who is obsessive or who feels hurt that I don't reach out to them in exactly the way they want or in the timing they want from the beginning is a sign for me not of dependency, but of a person who push-pulls or has other problematic, maybe co-dependent as opposed to dependent, ways of interacting. I run from these people, as I've met a lot of them over my lifetime. They blow me off and then accuse me of blowing them off. They want me to make plans with me and then don't follow through. It feels like a version of gaslighting. Usually they complain a lot about how other people leave them out of things. So I agree that obsession and inappropriate hurt feelings from the beginning that I am disappointing them is a person to stay away from. Some of this may be people grasping for connection out of dependency or desperate for connection from someone who seems capable of focusing on someone else besides themselves. But it may also be something than runs deeper that just dependency.

This is similar to how I am. It is why the second was a much better therapist possibly in general but definitely for me. I did much better with the aloof stand backish one than the one who actively wanted to be bonded to.
I have real life attachments and bonding and people I can depend upon when necessary.

LT: What LT said is exactly how i feel, except that I don't have friends. I make the mistake over and over again of seeking connection through oversharing the tough stuff with people who cannot be trusted to hold my feelings for me like my T can. Probably from my early childhood (potentially narcissist parents) my emotional need for attachment is primal. Although the consequences of my resultant behavior are all around me, I cannot seem to stop the (co) dependency with my spouse H, with work colleagues, et al. I have stopped with my family (mom, dad, siblings) but at the cost of nearly no contact.

I've lurked in and out of this forum for a while now, posted infrequently, etc. This thread drew me to post again. Thank you CNS. Thought provoking. So value my T and how he is patiently helping me. I have insecure attachments, but i know my attachment to him is secure and secured, in part by the business relationship, but also because he is really that good at his job and is able to dial back and help me begin to establish boundaries for myself. This has made the boundaries with him the easiest in my life to maintain if that makes sense. So, I am attached and dependent on my T, and working on my insecure attachment with him and others in each and every session, if that makes sense?

None of it needs to be a problem. I am attached to my T. My T is attached to me also. It is nothing negative, just regular human behavior and tendency! I am not helpless or unable to function or make desisions without my T, but I am happy to depend on her to be there for me and on my side, whatever comes up. My T encourages me to depend on her and I gladly do. Dependency has a negative vibe as a word, but I believe there is healthy and normal amount of dependency between people.

There have been a few studies on therapist/client attachment styles and how that works and how it can help or hurt therapy.

If you have any links, I'm curious. (And I have access to lots of research databases due to one of my jobs, so I may have ability to read full articles, even if they aren't free/open access.)

A quick google search brought some up.
Client and Therapist Attachment Styles and Working Alliance | Request PDF

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/impor...antiago-delboy

"Examining therapist attachment style in clinical work : an exploratory" by Mallory Nesburg

Logically, I understand the idea that some sort of interdependence with T is good, but I’m having a hard time feeling comfortable with it. I am not saying it is an entirely good thing, but based on my upbringing I have become pretty fiercely independent and this has helped me be successful at work. The downside is that it makes my time in therapy (and maybe personal relationships) more difficult. Right now, I have a hard time with the lopsidedness of the therapy relationship and I don’t know how to get past that.

I’m wondering, do you think that in a healthy therapeutic relationship the attachment can be somewhat reciprocal? Or does it have to be uneven by design?

Well in my therapy relationship the attachment is definitely reciprocal, even if the relationship is a healthy therapy relationship.

ETA: How could a T not be attached to his/her clients? The people they see for a long time and learn to know and like. It is natural and contains nothing weird or unprofessional.

Can I ask how you know the attachment is reciprocal? Does your T say so or can you just tell?

She has said it and it shows. And it is not just me, when we have discussed the subject she has said it does happen with clients naturally. But attachment to me doesn't mean being clingy, obsessed or anything like that. Sometimes when I read the forum here these are the things that are often put together with it. To me it is a bond, a strong feeling of mutual like and understanding.

Anne2.0, I experienced a very similar development over time to the one you describe in your posts on this thread. Except that, for me, therapy did not play much of a role in the turnover in my interpersonal dynamic and gradually acquiring the ability to develop and actually seek out interdependent relationships. For me it happened mostly during my 30's, especially after a period (few years) when both my internal and external reality became so disordered that I could barely function at my minimum. I was still able to maintain quite high profile jobs and lifestyle (although I seriously underperformed relative to my abilities and standards) but isolated to extremes beyond the professional minimum, it was also the period when my addiction escalated and reached its worst. Without details, there were areas where I basically were no longer able to keep up even the minimum of my responsibilities - and that was when I opened up to other people's seriously helping me, and realized that people are more than happy to help in many different ways, in pretty much any area of life. And that I seriously benefit from the help. I was so surprised that other people approached me without any of the harsh judgment that I constantly tortured myself with. Not really because I worried about judgement, more because I did not want anyone to truly see me in that state, to see what was going on behind the increasingly weaker armors that I so desperately tried to hold up.

It was very hard for me to overcome my reluctance to reach out but eventually managed quite successfully and stably. I needed to seriously fall apart for that to happen though. I did not receive any professional treatment during that time, just patience, compassion, support and practical help from people in my everyday life: friends, colleagues, self-help communities. For me, by the time I got into therapy at age 40, that development was quite advanced and I had no need to use therapy for it, just continue to use ordinary life resources. It is still amazing though how far down I had to dive into my own darkness in order to make all that happen - not that it is anything uncommon, it's is sort of a cliche actually and pretty ordinary life experience. It is not difficult for me to trust others now at all but I still tend to be selective and have high standards.

I am with you here and maybe also why I have struggled in the past with friendships and such but I'm now at a point where I just don't wanna be bothered with people anymore.

I don't think T's get attached. They may bond with certain clients but there is more to attachment than just a bond. Like our T's don't think of us much, if at all once we leave the room and those of us who are attached, they cross our mind quite a bit outside the room. To some people, their T is the most important person in their life so they feel more "attached/close" to them.... but T's have many clients. I think there is a lot of flaws in the "design of the therapy" relationship because it implies that all clients react/respond the same and we (you and I at least) can be examples of that being anything but true.... none the less, it is what it is. I'm unsure how you can get more dependent on T if you want. Maybe ask them for ideas?

Appreciate you sharing your story, Xynesthesia. I'm glad you found your way.

What is the difference between "fiercely independent" and "loner"? The XY chromosome? For myself, independent just means im staying away from people because getting involved feels like more trouble than its worth. It drains me emotionally.