[TrailRunner14]

Anger of any kind triggers me. It doesn’t matter if it’s directed at me or if I am just witness to it.

So there’s that.

I haven’t been able to really grasp productive anger and being angry for myself, as in self righteous anger. That usually results in self guilt.

So.

I’ve been working through some things that in all actuality should make me angry; angry for myself.

Tuesday is when I meet with my counselor and all day Tuesday I could feel an undercurrent and was trying to figure out what it was. On my way to my appointment I decided that I thought I was angry.

I get there and sit down and he asks me how I am.

I say, with a half smile, “I think I’m angry.”

He looks at me, with a half smile I think, and says, “Really?”

Thinking back on it, my voice sounded almost apologetic. I sounded like a kid.

He wanted me to sit with it and feel it. I don’t do that very well.

I asked him if we could pull out the timeline and look at it.

We did, and tears came. I shed more tears than I have, in session, since I started this. I was just looking at my life in that timeline and numbed out the anger and let the tears happen.

It was a great session and ended well. Forgive me for all the details. I’ve just been thinking about it and wondering, what it would have looked like if I could have let the anger “be”.

Again, I don’t know productive anger. I don’t get angry in that range. I either numb it or I can be pushed to the point that I feel there is no escape and then I completely come undone.

I can’t “see” me being angry in session and it be healing and good.

I don’t know how to do that. I can’t see it.

I don’t think punching a pillow will help me. I have said a few minor cuss words along the way, but I feel like I should apologize, and usually do, after I say them.

Anybody else been here?

How do I do it?

[SlumberKitty]

I'm really not good with anger either. Even if it isn't directed at me, even if I am just around it, I really shrink away from it. I started to be able to feel a little anger in therapy with my former T. It took a long time. I don't know what happened, just one day I sort of realized I might be just a little bit angry. I don't know how to sit with that feeling very well either. I wasn't ever angry in session so I don't know that I can help you with that. I just understand where you are coming from. ((hugs)) kit.

Being hostile while angry never really helped me on its own either. It's more about recognizing that something is unsatisfying, someone is taking advantage of me, or I am stuck in a situation that holds me back - these things can make me feel angry and frustrated. Swearing or punching something can sometimes help in the moment but it never resolves anything. What I like is using my sense of dissatisfaction or anger to voice something in a civil but assertive and confident way, instead of just accepting something that could actually be changed if I made the effort. Use the motivation of anger to act, instead of escaping or denial, even just not making a fuss because I want to appear as someone who would not generate conflict. So, anger helps me come across confidently and it can reduce anxiety about a bad situation because I start doing something to deal with it/change it. It can also be quite powerful to express directly my boundaries and what is okay and what is not, to someone who tries to manipulate or cut corners. I find that the kind of assertiveness that results from anger and frustration can also bring respect from other people quite effectively. So, for me, it is not about throwing things or saying nasty things - being hostile also usually makes me feel guilty and leaves me even more dissatisfied. It's about turning the feeling into constructive action. I also have a tendency to be very sensitive to unfairness, even if it is not targeted to me directly but to those that are close to me or people I respect - I can act protective with pointing out the unfairness directly, which is appreciated by many people, especially of no one else would voice it. Often simply just feeling angry can be quite energizing when I am otherwise in a low motivation state.

Being able to say nasty things on impulse in therapy can be useful, I guess, if the T can take it. It can be a start of something more constructive vs. never saying it so that the T does not know about the dissatisfaction.

[WarmFuzzySocks]

Yes. T and I have talked about anger. It seems to come up cyclically, as I find new levels of peace, recovery, growth, I find myself angry and grieving all over again. It seems to be where I am right now, and it really stinks.

I think Xynesthesia is on to something with hostility and anger. Trying to tease out the difference between the ways anger was(n’t) expressed in my family, appropriate productive anger, anger expressed as hostile behavior, and how to feel and express anger are still kind of a mysterious tangle for me.

[coolibrarian]

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

Anger of any kind triggers me. It doesn’t matter if it’s directed at me or if I am just witness to it.

So there’s that.

I haven’t been able to really grasp productive anger and being angry for myself, as in self righteous anger. That usually results in self guilt.

So.

I’ve been working through some things that in all actuality should make me angry; angry for myself.

Tuesday is when I meet with my counselor and all day Tuesday I could feel an undercurrent and was trying to figure out what it was. On my way to my appointment I decided that I thought I was angry.

I get there and sit down and he asks me how I am.

I say, with a half smile, “I think I’m angry.”

He looks at me, with a half smile I think, and says, “Really?”

Thinking back on it, my voice sounded almost apologetic. I sounded like a kid.

He wanted me to sit with it and feel it. I don’t do that very well.

I asked him if we could pull out the timeline and look at it.

We did, and tears came. I shed more tears than I have, in session, since I started this. I was just looking at my life in that timeline and numbed out the anger and let the tears happen.

It was a great session and ended well. Forgive me for all the details. I’ve just been thinking about it and wondering, what it would have looked like if I could have let the anger “be”.

Again, I don’t know productive anger. I don’t get angry in that range. I either numb it or I can be pushed to the point that I feel there is no escape and then I completely come undone.

I can’t “see” me being angry in session and it be healing and good.

I don’t know how to do that. I can’t see it.

I don’t think punching a pillow will help me. I have said a few minor cuss words along the way, but I feel like I should apologize, and usually do, after I say them.

Anybody else been here?

How do I do it?

I used to just stay silent. I guess I was punishing my T (for something someone else did or said) or for something I perceived that she did or said. Then I learned that, often, depression is "anger turned inward." In other words, if I didn't express my anger, I would become angry at myself, and depressed. So now if I am angry at my T, I try to tell her right away, so I can work through it, and move on.

[DP_2017]

I struggle with expressing anger too, 1.5 years in therapy and I still haven't. I doubt I ever will either. I can't force it and I don't see it just happening randomly. Although it would really shock my T Im sure

I think it is also important how we deal with anger in other people. Direct hostility but also passive aggression, which IMO can be the most toxic and unproductive form of anger. I think people who are prone to passive aggression are often unaware of their anger and that they are hurting someone.

[ruh roh]

I don't think trying to express anger with pillow punching or something similar is all that helpful. I think it's more helpful if anger is a problem outside of therapy, then therapy might be able to help with it. But just wanting to get angry for a therapeutic purpose seems forced and unhelpful. When I finally got angry, it was when I heard someone else tell a story similar to my own and it made me see the injustice in a way that I could not do for myself until then.

Maybe just let it surface on its own, in its own way. It will happen.

[RaineD]

I can't really answer your question because anger is the only feeling that comes easily to me. But I do know (from being lectured by my therapist ad nauseam and also from reading books about his type of therapy) that the tears were a defense to anger. So, in order to feel the anger, you have to NOT resort to the defense of crying.

The way my therapist gets me to stop resorting to a defense in session is by yelling at me. His yelling shocks me out of the defense before it takes hold. It works for me, but it may or may not work for you. Everyone's different.

If your 'new' at anger, I wouldn't worry about trying to shape it in any productive way; as anything. It may be worthwhile to first experience and learn about it before deciding what to do with it. Being in a raw state might help you connect to those aspects of yourself, explore it, leading to healthy ways to manage it in time.

While the average person without a trauma history may tend to deny or displace anger, it's said people with trauma histories often can't experience both the good and bad at the same time.

Trauma in the first 2 years of life can mess with one's ability to experience anger 'normally'. When the psych becomes overwhelmed from trauma, it has a way of impacting your sense of self. Without a way to cognitively process the overwhelming affect of trauma, it can get stored as fragmented parts and memories. All this to say I have a dissociative disorder and my anger surfacing was frightening and confusing. At first, it felt like an alien inside me. Then my abusers seemed to be inside me as part of me...fast forward after months of terrifying experiences, body memories, states...it was probably the most terrifying thing that happened to me in my adult life.My T didn't handle it too well at all and I have been impacted for a long time. (I think he realizes this now and is trying to help build me up). After going through hell, it has integrated. It gets in the way here and there but is no longer egodystonic to the extreme.

Aside from dissociation, if you've ingrained a need to be 'good' all the time, your impulses can counteract that and it can normalize and level out. It might cause anxiety now, but if you give power to your impulses and let them take over with no expectations, rules, limits, self scorning, and do it a few times with T, that aspect of yourself could be more integrated and the anxiety might go away in time. Just don't think of the anger impulses as 'bad', think of it as you in a free, natural state that is part of being human.

I've been angry in therapy loads.
But being told to sit with anything would make feel even angrier.
I do now try and verbalise what it is I feel like doing whilst angry. But that's come with time.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I was taught that anger is just an emotion that masks other underlying emotions. What if, because you allowed yourself to feel angry for even a second, you were able to access those other feelings? Maybe that's why it was emotionally intense?

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

I'm really not good with anger either. Even if it isn't directed at me, even if I am just around it, I really shrink away from it. I started to be able to feel a little anger in therapy with my former T. It took a long time. I don't know what happened, just one day I sort of realized I might be just a little bit angry. I don't know how to sit with that feeling very well either. I wasn't ever angry in session so I don't know that I can help you with that. I just understand where you are coming from. ((hugs)) kit.

Thank you! ((hug))

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

Being hostile while angry never really helped me on its own either. It's more about recognizing that something is unsatisfying, someone is taking advantage of me, or I am stuck in a situation that holds me back - these things can make me feel angry and frustrated. Swearing or punching something can sometimes help in the moment but it never resolves anything. What I like is using my sense of dissatisfaction or anger to voice something in a civil but assertive and confident way, instead of just accepting something that could actually be changed if I made the effort. Use the motivation of anger to act, instead of escaping or denial, even just not making a fuss because I want to appear as someone who would not generate conflict. So, anger helps me come across confidently and it can reduce anxiety about a bad situation because I start doing something to deal with it/change it. It can also be quite powerful to express directly my boundaries and what is okay and what is not, to someone who tries to manipulate or cut corners. I find that the kind of assertiveness that results from anger and frustration can also bring respect from other people quite effectively. So, for me, it is not about throwing things or saying nasty things - being hostile also usually makes me feel guilty and leaves me even more dissatisfied. It's about turning the feeling into constructive action. I also have a tendency to be very sensitive to unfairness, even if it is not targeted to me directly but to those that are close to me or people I respect - I can act protective with pointing out the unfairness directly, which is appreciated by many people, especially of no one else would voice it. Often simply just feeling angry can be quite energizing when I am otherwise in a low motivation state.

Being able to say nasty things on impulse in therapy can be useful, I guess, if the T can take it. It can be a start of something more constructive vs. never saying it so that the T does not know about the dissatisfaction.

Thank you for this!

I've read it several times and it has really encouraged me to learn that kind of productive anger.

It's hard to understand this as being anger, when the only anger I have experienced is explosive and abuse rage and manipulation.

I'm eager to go forward with this because I can see how it can be very empowering

Thank you!

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by WarmFuzzySocks

Yes. T and I have talked about anger. It seems to come up cyclically, as I find new levels of peace, recovery, growth, I find myself angry and grieving all over again. It seems to be where I am right now, and it really stinks.

I think Xynesthesia is on to something with hostility and anger. Trying to tease out the difference between the ways anger was(n’t) expressed in my family, appropriate productive anger, anger expressed as hostile behavior, and how to feel and express anger are still kind of a mysterious tangle for me.

I agree with you on Xynesthesia's post.

Hostility and anger are two different things and I've never really understood that.

Honestly, it feels freeing to learn to distinguish the two.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by coolibrarian

I used to just stay silent. I guess I was punishing my T (for something someone else did or said) or for something I perceived that she did or said. Then I learned that, often, depression is "anger turned inward." In other words, if I didn't express my anger, I would become angry at myself, and depressed. So now if I am angry at my T, I try to tell her right away, so I can work through it, and move on.

Thank you!

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think it is also important how we deal with anger in other people. Direct hostility but also passive aggression, which IMO can be the most toxic and unproductive form of anger. I think people who are prone to passive aggression are often unaware of their anger and that they are hurting someone.

Passive aggression confuses me. I'm not sure that I know what that is or looks like.

Transference maybe?

Triggering someone and their anger is directed at me?

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by ruh roh

I don't think trying to express anger with pillow punching or something similar is all that helpful. I think it's more helpful if anger is a problem outside of therapy, then therapy might be able to help with it. But just wanting to get angry for a therapeutic purpose seems forced and unhelpful. When I finally got angry, it was when I heard someone else tell a story similar to my own and it made me see the injustice in a way that I could not do for myself until then.

Maybe just let it surface on its own, in its own way. It will happen.

I agree.

I feel kind of silly, thinking about it now, that I needed to do something physical to express that I was angry. That's really hostility and what damaged me. It's the only kind of anger I've known though.

It's also easier for me to get angry about injustice for someone else than for myself.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by RaineD

I can't really answer your question because anger is the only feeling that comes easily to me. But I do know (from being lectured by my therapist ad nauseam and also from reading books about his type of therapy) that the tears were a defense to anger. So, in order to feel the anger, you have to NOT resort to the defense of crying.

The way my therapist gets me to stop resorting to a defense in session is by yelling at me. His yelling shocks me out of the defense before it takes hold. It works for me, but it may or may not work for you. Everyone's different.

Thank you!

I dissociate very easily and the yelling might not be a good option right now. It is something to learn to handle though.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by guileless

If your 'new' at anger, I wouldn't worry about trying to shape it in any productive way; as anything. It may be worthwhile to first experience and learn about it before deciding what to do with it. Being in a raw state might help you connect to those aspects of yourself, explore it, leading to healthy ways to manage it in time.

While the average person without a trauma history may tend to deny or displace anger, it's said people with trauma histories often can't experience both the good and bad at the same time.

Trauma in the first 2 years of life can mess with one's ability to experience anger 'normally'. When the psych becomes overwhelmed from trauma, it has a way of impacting your sense of self. Without a way to cognitively process the overwhelming affect of trauma, it can get stored as fragmented parts and memories. All this to say I have a dissociative disorder and my anger surfacing was frightening and confusing. At first, it felt like an alien inside me. Then my abusers seemed to be inside me as part of me...fast forward after months of terrifying experiences, body memories, states...it was probably the most terrifying thing that happened to me in my adult life.My T didn't handle it too well at all and I have been impacted for a long time. (I think he realizes this now and is trying to help build me up). After going through hell, it has integrated. It gets in the way here and there but is no longer egodystonic to the extreme.

Aside from dissociation, if you've ingrained a need to be 'good' all the time, your impulses can counteract that and it can normalize and level out. It might cause anxiety now, but if you give power to your impulses and let them take over with no expectations, rules, limits, self scorning, and do it a few times with T, that aspect of yourself could be more integrated and the anxiety might go away in time. Just don't think of the anger impulses as 'bad', think of it as you in a free, natural state that is part of being human.

Thank you for this!

I'm so sorry for the terror you have been through with this! I am glad that you worked through it and are experiencing more integration. Integrating parts brings strength to me. I hope it has for you!

I do dissociate and anger is a hair trigger for it.

I'm wondering if the anger for the trauma that I was looking at on the timeline, felt like there was nothing that could be done about it. Maybe it felt like it was pointless since it was then and not now.

Maybe the tears were the result of anger that could do nothing.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by Trace62

I've been angry in therapy loads.
But being told to sit with anything would make feel even angrier.
I do now try and verbalise what it is I feel like doing whilst angry. But that's come with time.

I was thinking along these lines earlier.

It almost feels like "sitting with it" would feed it and make it bigger.

That's almost a scary thought, but something to think about.

It would be good to verbalise that with my counselor if I can remember to.

[TrailRunner14]

Originally Posted by ScarletPimpernel

I was taught that anger is just an emotion that masks other underlying emotions. What if, because you allowed yourself to feel angry for even a second, you were able to access those other feelings? Maybe that's why it was emotionally intense?

Thank you!

Allowing myself to be angry, I believe, is the hinge here. I haven't looked at it that way before.

That feels like a good journal topic.

[WarmFuzzySocks]

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

I'm wondering if the anger for the trauma that I was looking at on the timeline, felt like there was nothing that could be done about it. Maybe it felt like it was pointless since it was then and not now.

Maybe the tears were the result of anger that could do nothing.

This really resonated with me. Thank you for this topic.

I read this thread before my therapy session yesterday. I think it was really helpful, because at a point I felt overwhelmed, I was able to pinpoint it as anger and talk about it..reading this makes me recognize that feeling as helpless anger, and it doesn't feel useful because it can DO nothing.

Originally Posted by TrailRunner14

Thank you for this!

I'm so sorry for the terror you have been through with this! I am glad that you worked through it and are experiencing more integration. Integrating parts brings strength to me. I hope it has for you!

I do dissociate and anger is a hair trigger for it.

I'm wondering if the anger for the trauma that I was looking at on the timeline, felt like there was nothing that could be done about it. Maybe it felt like it was pointless since it was then and not now.

Maybe the tears were the result of anger that could do nothing.

I know that helpless feeling. You may getting in touch with those feelings. It's hard.

Originally Posted by WarmFuzzySocks

This really resonated with me. Thank you for this topic.

I read this thread before my therapy session yesterday. I think it was really helpful, because at a point I felt overwhelmed, I was able to pinpoint it as anger and talk about it..reading this makes me recognize that feeling as helpless anger, and it doesn't feel useful because it can DO nothing.

That sounds like rage. Helpless anger usually leads to rage whereas anger has a purpose and a different quality. I think people often think of rage as loud or something, but that is not what distinguishes rage from anger.