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  #1  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 06:49 AM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Iīm in a deep grief after losing my therapist as she wasnīt allowed to continue with me. They had a policy within church that said a therapist was allowed to give 20 sessions and me and my therapist saw each other for almost as twice as many.

I feel let down in that respect that I thought my therapist in a proper way had established she was allowed to continue beyond the limit of 20 sessions. But she canīt have as when she went to supervision after having had more than 30 sessions it all ended abruptly.

I canīt understand how she could just continue seeing me and knowing what she did was wrong. She explained it by that she wanted me well and that she didnīt want to disappoint me or make me feel abandoned.

But thatīs no reason for keep going and knowing her supervisor and the congregation had set the limit of 20 sessions.


I also find it very odd that her supervisor just made her end it all in one session only as we then had already had so many sessions it wouldnīt matter if she gave me a few more to be able to wrap things up.

I understand no one has the exact answer to this but I would want to hear what you can think of as a possible reason to all this happening.
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  #2  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 06:58 AM
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elisewin elisewin is offline
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I'm sorry this all happened to you.
Doesn’t sound all that professional to me at all. Was she a lisenced psychotherapist btw? Obviously she really wanted to help you and because of that kept going against the limits, but I think she should have told you from the beginning what the frames of the services they offer are.
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  #3  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 07:32 AM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. No, she isnīt licensed and she did know about the limits from the start and she also told me they had this limit of 20 sessions. But after a while she said as she was employed by the church she had the freedom to organize her week as she thought was best. But I think that was just some kind of wishful thinking, not that she had actually heard it was ok to give me more sessions.


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Originally Posted by elisewin View Post
I'm sorry this all happened to you.
Doesn’t sound all that professional to me at all. Was she a lisenced psychotherapist btw? Obviously she really wanted to help you and because of that kept going against the limits, but I think she should have told you from the beginning what the frames of the services they offer are.
  #4  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 07:45 AM
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elisewin elisewin is offline
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I agree with you it might have been wishful thinking, not a fact when she said she could keep seeing you as long as needed although what the offer sound more like temporary councelling. And probably both her and her bosses lack of psychotherapeutic knowledge and skills influenced in the way they presented it to you with an abrupt ending, without taking into consideration how hard it would be. I get a feeling she didn't mean any harm but was not equipped with what you needed, either professionally or framewise in the church.
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  #5  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 07:45 AM
Echos Myron redux Echos Myron redux is offline
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Sounds like she was out of her depth professionally and unable to hold the proper boundaries that the church had stipulated. I work for an organisation that offers time-limited therapy so I know what it's like to have to end with clients that would benefit from more sessions. It doesn't feel great, but to bury my head in the sand and pretend like no ending would be necessary would be unprofessional and setting the client up for hurt, as you have experienced here. It seems like another case of a therapist making promises they can't keep and I am very sorry you were on the receiving end.

I'm sure she had the best of intentions but was clearly working beyond her competency. I hope you can take away from the experience the knowledge that she cared about you, and that I am sure she is sorry that her professional error of judgement has led to hurt for you.
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  #6  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 11:58 AM
Rive. Rive. is offline
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Countertransference most probably.

She let her emotions towards you take over. It wasn't very professional as she didn't abide by the rules and boundaries set by the church. It's surprising that she couldn't anticipate her supervisor / the church would find out sooner or later. And the fallout from this poor decision.

She may have been well-intentioned and/or caring but that was rather... naive of her .
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  #7  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 01:20 PM
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SalingerEsme SalingerEsme is offline
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It seems like she got in some hot water/ in trouble?
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  #8  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 02:15 PM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Yes, I know they arenīt licensed but alternative therapists and they more of acted like I had just seen her for a few sessions of counselling rather than therapy. I agree she probably didnīt know how to handle en ending to a longer therapy and also didnīt know how to handle her feelings for me. I now mean feelings like towards a fellow human, not in a romantic way.

As she gave me almost twice as many sessions she had a lot of time, we also had a summer break when she was on vacation, and still she couldnīt manage to tell me we had to end it. And ending it over some time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by elisewin View Post
I agree with you it might have been wishful thinking, not a fact when she said she could keep seeing you as long as needed although what the offer sound more like temporary councelling. And probably both her and her bosses lack of psychotherapeutic knowledge and skills influenced in the way they presented it to you with an abrupt ending, without taking into consideration how hard it would be. I get a feeling she didn't mean any harm but was not equipped with what you needed, either professionally or framewise in the church.
  #9  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 02:21 PM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Yes, she said they had never faced such a situation before when a client had been given "too many" sessions and then had to end it all. Itīs interesting to hear about your experiences from this.

Yes, I think itīs easy for a therapist to promise certain things in the beginning to build trust and perhaps my therapist in a way hoped that I would myself feel that I wanted to end our contact after some time.


But when she told me she had the freedom to plan her own week I aimed for staying with her until next spring or something like that. I find it very strange that she knew from the beginning, she didnīt establish what she was planning to do and just kept going.


Just after the summer break, in August that was, she said to me "itīs so nice to get starting with our work again". That she said knowing we already had had too many sessions! I canīt get this together.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Echos Myron redux View Post
Sounds like she was out of her depth professionally and unable to hold the proper boundaries that the church had stipulated. I work for an organisation that offers time-limited therapy so I know what it's like to have to end with clients that would benefit from more sessions. It doesn't feel great, but to bury my head in the sand and pretend like no ending would be necessary would be unprofessional and setting the client up for hurt, as you have experienced here. It seems like another case of a therapist making promises they can't keep and I am very sorry you were on the receiving end.

I'm sure she had the best of intentions but was clearly working beyond her competency. I hope you can take away from the experience the knowledge that she cared about you, and that I am sure she is sorry that her professional error of judgement has led to hurt for you.
  #10  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 02:24 PM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Yes, it might very well be countertransference and her being in a situation where she couldnīt seek proper counselling without revealing it all. Yes, I totally agree to that she must have known that some time sooner or later someone would find out about this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rive. View Post
Countertransference most probably.

She let her emotions towards you take over. It wasn't very professional as she didn't abide by the rules and boundaries set by the church. It's surprising that she couldn't anticipate her supervisor / the church would find out sooner or later. And the fallout from this poor decision.

She may have been well-intentioned and/or caring but that was rather... naive of her .
  #11  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 02:27 PM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Yes, but what kind of hot water so to speak? Was it the supervisor who got to know about my therapist's feelings and by that wanted to end it all? Or was she in trouble simply for not abiding to the rules and limitations? As she wasnīt hired as a therapist in church perhaps they saw this as working within something she wasnīt at all allowed to.

Whatīs hard to understand is that they didnīt seem to care what would happen to me as they didnīt offer anyone else to talk to nor did they give my therapist some time to solve it.


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Originally Posted by SalingerEsme View Post
It seems like she got in some hot water/ in trouble?
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  #12  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 02:53 PM
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coolibrarian coolibrarian is offline
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I don't have any answers for you, but I wanted to let you know, again, how sorry I am, that happened to you. Kramar.
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  #13  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 04:23 PM
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Ididitmyway Ididitmyway is offline
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I second what Echos said. She demonstrated a lack of professional boundary and a lack of responsibility to you, as well as the church she works for.

I too have worked in places that limited a number of sessions for clients and I know how much it sucks to see people sad about the ending when they clearly needed and wanted more. But they were informed about this limit upfront and so they accepted it.

I also worked for agencies that acted unethically IMO because they suddenly changed the conditions for therapy without giving clients and therapists both an advance notice. In one organization they suddenly imposed the limit on the number of sessions for everyone including the existing clients who were told in the beginning that they could see their therapists indefinitely, as long as the therapists work there. The therapists were taken by surprise by the new policies as much as the clients were. I thought this was outrageous and I would've been, probably, justified if I'd continued seeing my clients at some other place, but I didn't have my own practice then and didn't work for any other agency. So, I just had to end my work with those people abruptly. They were devastated and so was I.

I don't understand how a therapist would not tell a client about the rules of the place they work at. It is a sure set up for a trauma. I mean, what it is exactly that your therapist was thinking of? That she'd be able to continue it forever without anyone finding out about it? She had to understand that it was going to end at some point and she had to think about how this would affect you. When you expect things to end, that's one thing. You can be sad about it but you accept it. When they end unexpectedly because the therapist failed to tell you that they were supposed to end (which is a lie by omission) that's a betrayal and an abandonment, which causes trauma. The fact that she didn't think about this is just a sign of being grossly irresponsible.

I agree with you about her supervisor. They also had to have some consideration of your well-being. It wasn't your fault that the therapist failed to disclose that the counseling was limited and so they should've allowed more time for you to make the ending smoother. Unfortunately, organizations of any kind are rarely ruled by the principles of humanity. They are just bureaucratic machines even those who, by definition, are supposed to serve humanitarian causes. I am so sorry you are dealing with this right now.
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  #14  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 05:08 PM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Itīs interesting to hear about your experiences from a similar situation when it comes to limited sessions. I can really understand it must be hard to see clients getting sad when they canīt continue in a treatment they need.

What you wrote about those agencies suddenly changing their rules is just obnoxious as it hurts so many people, both clients and also therapists on some level.

What you wrote about clients being devestated and so also you struck a chord in me as I can understand the overwhelming feeling in leaving people behind against oneīs will. And leaving several clients at the same time must be even harder.

It also makes me think about my therapist and perhaps she feels in a similar way even if sheīs part of it in a more direct way. She knew about the limit from the beginning and also told me there was a limit of 20 sessions. But after a while she told me I could continue as long as I liked and later on she also told me that she was employed by the church and by that she had the freedom to plan her week. But I think this was more of a wishful thinking than anything else.

I also thought about this how she thought about continuing under the risk of "getting caught". I guess she might have turned to supervision WITHOUT letting the supervisor know anything about who the client was nor how long the client had been seeing her. By that she could seek supervision on my case and still keeping it a secret that we had seen each other for a longer period of time.

But when she sought supervision the last time, the content in my e-mail probably revealed it all as I had there talked about being afraid of losing her. That isnīt so common among clients who see a therapist for general counselling during ten sessions or similar.

She did think about all this but she explained it as she had had a hard time actually telling me we had to end and she just kept going as she didnīt want to disappoint me or make me feel let down. But then all this happened instead which is so much harder to handle in comparison to if she had stuck to the rules, ending after 20 sessions. Or, of course, if she had talked to the supervisor and asked her if it actually was ok to continue but none of this happened.

Thanks for support, I appreciate it. I spend all my days in grief now, I try to distract myself, I read on PC and try to find articles or books that covers some of those things. But itīs impossible not to think about it and Iīm worried how to find a way forward in life. I had that thought before as well but it heightens now when I no longer can see my therapist.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ididitmyway View Post
I second what Echos said. She demonstrated a lack of professional boundary and a lack of responsibility to you, as well as the church she works for.

I too have worked in places that limited a number of sessions for clients and I know how much it sucks to see people sad about the ending when they clearly needed and wanted more. But they were informed about this limit upfront and so they accepted it.

I also worked for agencies that acted unethically IMO because they suddenly changed the conditions for therapy without giving clients and therapists both an advance notice. In one organization they suddenly imposed the limit on the number of sessions for everyone including the existing clients who were told in the beginning that they could see their therapists indefinitely, as long as the therapists work there. The therapists were taken by surprise by the new policies as much as the clients were. I thought this was outrageous and I would've been, probably, justified if I'd continued seeing my clients at some other place, but I didn't have my own practice then and didn't work for any other agency. So, I just had to end my work with those people abruptly. They were devastated and so was I.

I don't understand how a therapist would not tell a client about the rules of the place they work at. It is a sure set up for a trauma. I mean, what it is exactly that your therapist was thinking of? That she'd be able to continue it forever without anyone finding out about it? She had to understand that it was going to end at some point and she had to think about how this would affect you. When you expect things to end, that's one thing. You can be sad about it but you accept it. When they end unexpectedly because the therapist failed to tell you that they were supposed to end (which is a lie by omission) that's a betrayal and an abandonment, which causes trauma. The fact that she didn't think about this is just a sign of being grossly irresponsible.

I agree with you about her supervisor. They also had to have some consideration of your well-being. It wasn't your fault that the therapist failed to disclose that the counseling was limited and so they should've allowed more time for you to make the ending smoother. Unfortunately, organizations of any kind are rarely ruled by the principles of humanity. They are just bureaucratic machines even those who, by definition, are supposed to serve humanitarian causes. I am so sorry you are dealing with this right now.
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  #15  
Old Sep 29, 2018, 06:44 PM
Anne2.0 Anne2.0 is offline
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I think it's the organization that has an ethical problem for limiting sessions to some artificial and arbitrary number, and apparently having so little understanding or oversight about what their volunteers are doing. Setting a cap like that on sessions isn't really consistent with what we know about effective therapy or mental health issues.

I do believe in general that volunteers or other people inside organizations like a church (or a nonprofit, which I am more familiar with) should follow the guidelines, but as much I agree in general about rule following, it gets more complicated when the organization sets dumb restrictions and your judgment is telling you that you can help people better by doing it your way. I've been a rule breaker a time or two and I'm not sorry about it at all. Some nonprofits make it their mission to not help people or to help as little as possible, and I've solved this problem now by simply not being part of an organization and doing what I think is best. And in that time (I'm not a T) I've learned just how much it takes to really help someone. If I stuck to the guidelines of what certain professionals think should be the limits, it would be a lot worse for at least some of the people I've worked with.
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Old Sep 30, 2018, 03:42 AM
here today here today is offline
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I expect that you may not want to hear what I have to say, and may not be in a place to hear it either, but I don't know for sure that you aren't either. So, for what it is worth. . . What strikes me as most important is this --

Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahSweden View Post
. . .
Whatīs hard to understand is that they didnīt seem to care what would happen to me as they didnīt offer anyone else to talk to nor did they give my therapist some time to solve it.
From my experience, I know that what I felt, and still feel, about my frustrations and disappointments with therapy is highly correlated with feelings I had about my family of origin, and I had deeply repressed (or dissociated or whatever you want to call it). There would have been no point to feeling it, back then.

Doesn't mean that the frustrations and disappointments with therapy aren't valid. And that therapy and therapists need to understand and accept that better. And that re-traumatization, with new trauma added it, can be devastating to people sometimes.

It's like a giant chicken and egg, and in my experience therapy and therapists do NOT have the full answer, for many of us. Even as I think some of their ideas, like transference and repression/dissociation, do have some merit sometimes.

I'm really sorry you're having such a bad time, and have for a long time. I hope that you may find some ways forward and that your grief will lessen in time.

Please let us know what you do plan to do next.
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  #17  
Old Sep 30, 2018, 07:24 AM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Yes, I think just because they shouldīt offer therapy but more of general counselling, the understanding of the therapeutic process is too weak. I think thatīs at least partly why my therapistīs supervisor now just ended it all, like if we had had just counselling and not therapy.

I agree to what you say about restrictions within different kinds of organisations. Those who really believe in helping people find it hard to work according to rules that donīt benefit those they are helping.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne2.0 View Post
I think it's the organization that has an ethical problem for limiting sessions to some artificial and arbitrary number, and apparently having so little understanding or oversight about what their volunteers are doing. Setting a cap like that on sessions isn't really consistent with what we know about effective therapy or mental health issues.

I do believe in general that volunteers or other people inside organizations like a church (or a nonprofit, which I am more familiar with) should follow the guidelines, but as much I agree in general about rule following, it gets more complicated when the organization sets dumb restrictions and your judgment is telling you that you can help people better by doing it your way. I've been a rule breaker a time or two and I'm not sorry about it at all. Some nonprofits make it their mission to not help people or to help as little as possible, and I've solved this problem now by simply not being part of an organization and doing what I think is best. And in that time (I'm not a T) I've learned just how much it takes to really help someone. If I stuck to the guidelines of what certain professionals think should be the limits, it would be a lot worse for at least some of the people I've worked with.
  #18  
Old Sep 30, 2018, 07:37 AM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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In this case with my therapist I think it's plain forward as no professional therapist would ever say like "I think due to the clientīs problems we now end it all abruptly even if the client has nowhere to go". A termination period isnīt based on capriciousness where some clients are entitled to a termination period and some are not.


I donīt have any plans for the moment and I donīt know how to process it all without my therapist as books and such will never be the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
I expect that you may not want to hear what I have to say, and may not be in a place to hear it either, but I don't know for sure that you aren't either. So, for what it is worth. . . What strikes me as most important is this --


From my experience, I know that what I felt, and still feel, about my frustrations and disappointments with therapy is highly correlated with feelings I had about my family of origin, and I had deeply repressed (or dissociated or whatever you want to call it). There would have been no point to feeling it, back then.

Doesn't mean that the frustrations and disappointments with therapy aren't valid. And that therapy and therapists need to understand and accept that better. And that re-traumatization, with new trauma added it, can be devastating to people sometimes.

It's like a giant chicken and egg, and in my experience therapy and therapists do NOT have the full answer, for many of us. Even as I think some of their ideas, like transference and repression/dissociation, do have some merit sometimes.

I'm really sorry you're having such a bad time, and have for a long time. I hope that you may find some ways forward and that your grief will lessen in time.

Please let us know what you do plan to do next.
  #19  
Old Oct 01, 2018, 06:50 PM
BudFox BudFox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahSweden View Post

I donīt have any plans for the moment and I donīt know how to process it all without my therapist as books and such will never be the same.
For me this was the essence of the therapy trap (or one of the traps). You become habituated to seeking answers from external sources rather than from within, and the more therapy you do, the more dependent you become on this contrived external authority.

It was absurd irony and the last straw when failed therapy made me feel I urgently needed a therapist to explain what just happened with the previous therapist.

Kinda liberating when you realize they don't know any more than you do. And then the game is over.
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  #20  
Old Oct 02, 2018, 08:41 AM
SarahSweden SarahSweden is offline
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Thanks. Yes, I agree this can be valid to some extent depending on what experiences one has from therapy but my post was about why my therapist gave me more sessions than she was allowed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BudFox View Post
For me this was the essence of the therapy trap (or one of the traps). You become habituated to seeking answers from external sources rather than from within, and the more therapy you do, the more dependent you become on this contrived external authority.

It was absurd irony and the last straw when failed therapy made me feel I urgently needed a therapist to explain what just happened with the previous therapist.

Kinda liberating when you realize they don't know any more than you do. And then the game is over.
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