[Merope]

“Father hunger is the result of receiving too little quality fathering as a child or young adult. Some argue that even grown men and women need fathers or father surrogates and that the absence of such role modeling and support is associated with less fulfillment in life. In general, father hunger results from too little intimacy between child and father”. (Schaller, 1995)

I’ve had “daddy issues” my whole life, even before I actually knew they were a thing. When I was about six or seven, I became obsessed with a character in a book and I didn’t know why, though later I understood that he possessed qualities I associated with a good father. I was so hungry for him, that I’d spend all my time fantasising that he was my dad.

The pattern repeated later in life too. Teachers at school, lecturers at uni etc. Ive noticed that a recurrent pattern in my fantasies is that I always imagine these father figures as “stern” and often make up scenarios where I get in trouble with them. I don’t know why, its always been like this. When I was younger I would imagine them hitting me, though again, I don’t know why, especially because I am opposed to physical violence. Maybe part of me thought I deserved it, since dad left when I was very young. I think I thought it was my fault, so in my head, if they hit me then they’d forgive me afterwards and stay.

I never had a father figure who really interacted with me unti I met my current therapist. It’s a weird feeling, experiencing some of the more normal fantasies i had about father figures in real life, namely the listening, the caring, the teaching of life lessons. He’s even been stern with me once or twice.

I am becoming obsessed with therapy and my therapist for this reason. It’s not all bad. As far as therapy goes, it’s actually helpful. And he’s meeting a lot of unfulfilled emotional needs too.

Im curious what other people’s experiences are with this.

I had "mother issues" spent my whole life looking for something, anything from female figures who I took as emotional hostages.
When I begun with my T. It all got focused onto her. Which is good. Because it's worth her where the healing happened.
Now yrs on, I relate to women for who they are and meet them where they are. I don't play games with them any more.
I've got what I needed and still get it from T.
The thirst is quenched.

I have been drawn to older, mentor-type males in the first ~35 years of my life so much that I got into quite a few questionable relationships with some of them. Most of them I did not see as authority figures at all, more like equals but with more life experience and wisdom than young myself, and there was a motivation to kinda merge with them and acquire the traits, knowledge and experience that my mind automatically associated with them (sometimes more projected than really out there). It's interesting because I had a good father and I was very close to him pretty much until he died, except a few of my teenage years when my focus was naturally on becoming independent and I did not care much about him. And the relationship with my father became only stronger (in a more mature, equals form) in my adulthood. So, for me, seeking out those men wasn't about a desire to fulfill something I never got from my biological father, more the opposite, I could not get enough of it, but there was a progression in the chain of men in such a way that they always had to have more and more (or just different) outstanding features. It wasn't care and love that I sought via them really but models of human traits and experience that I admired and wanted to have in myself. So they were mostly positive relationships, I never had fantasies about being treated badly and would not have allowed it.

The whole pattern has mostly dissipated by my late 30s, I think because I actually developed those things in myself that I liked and tended to project, so no need for models really. I can still feel vague remnants of it when I meet a new guy who impresses me with specific things but I no longer crave the interaction that much, I would definitely not get into complicated/inappropriate relationships for it. What I experience now quite often instead is young people (often my students) going through the same thing with me, but I've learned to keep much steadier boundaries than some of those men in my youth, I also don't often feel urges to develop relationships with them other then mentoring.

Both of my Ts were older males, one who could really be my father based on his age and the other a bit over 15 years older than me. I never really felt the attraction pattern of my youth toward them (I was almost 40 when I first started therapy) except for some fleeting moments. One of the Ts felt more like an older brother for me. And I lost every desire to be associated with the other one when I gradually got to know him better, he had some really ugly and immature behaviors that I didn't only not admire but grew to despise intensely.

There was a guy that I truly saw as a sort of father figure just before I started therapy and I got a lot out of that relationship. It was during the time when my elderly biological father's health and mental faculties were declining seriously and I could no longer have the kinds of interactions with him that we used to have. It was a sort of slow grief even before he physically passed away and I really missed him then, was angry about losing him and all. No surprise I experienced what a T might describe as paternal transference to that guy, who was similar to my dad (in his prime) in many ways. Unfortunately, he got suddenly ill as well and died actually just a few months before my father. I have not really had a desire to replace them since, it kinda feels that the pattern has done its things and is completed. Maybe this is similar to what some people also experience with a T if it works well. I still do notice the "wise guy" type though when I encounter someone who seems to fit, but I can leave them alone.

Unlike many people reporting parental transference here, my relationships in the past never really felt painful in an unrequited love way (I have never been prone to that), there wasn't too much room for longing because in most of those relationships my desires were pretty much satisfied. I know that therapy would have never given the same for me for many reasons, one being that what we often did with those guys in the past would be considered acting out by a T. I just cannot imaging how mere talking could provide the same.

[ruh roh]

I did not have a father in my life, except for early few years and he was abusive, then died. I have had no interest in a father figure on any level, at any time. I have been just fine without one.

[Rive1976]

I have had mommy issues since 7. Still looking for a mother that actually loves me.

[seeker33]

As a child I imagined that captain Picard from star trek was my father and took care of me when I was sick.
In my teens I imagined having a mother who was a psychologist. She was divorced and my imaginary father didn't live with us. In reality, my mother isn't a psychologist and they are not divorced.

[TeaVicar?]

I can certainly relate to a lot of what you have written. My dad didn't walk out but he was very emotionally distant growing up, I never felt that he cared or loved me. I used to pretend a middle aged singer/song writer was my real dad. I used to spend hours just sitting and fantasising.

I suppose an occasionally stern/angry father, is a father who shows he cares - obviously I don't mean a father who is abusive but one who shows a variety of feelings towards us. I just listened to an interesting podcast which talked about how children experience their parents' love not only through positive loving experiences but also through the normal occasional outbursts of anger and hate. The idea being that you can't know love, without knowing hate.

pm me if you fancy a chat.

[RaineD]

My therapist is a father figure for me too. That's why I like it so much when he gets mad at me, even when he yells at me. It all seems like very normal, fatherly things to do.

[Lrad123]

I can really relate to some of your fantasies. When I was a kid I’d create these elaborate scenarios where some famous person or tv character or sports star was my relative. It was always a male. He’d be my dad, uncle, older brother or whatever sort of fit best in the particular fantasy of the moment. I would do something to get in trouble, he would notice, get mad (but not abusive or mean mad, just regular caring sort of mad) and I would feel loved by this interaction. It showed he cared and we were closer afterwards. It was soothing and comforting to me to have this fantasy.

I recently posted on another thread about trying to understand the transference that might be going on with my therapist and your thread really made me think. I think I might be trying to recreate this “fantasy” with my therapist. There’s a part of me that wants him to be angry with me, maybe because I think it will show that he cares. It’s sort of embarrassing, really, because there’s a huge part of me that would feel hurt and shamed if he were mad at me, but as I look back at my relationship with my T, it seems like I’ve been trying to create scenarios where he might get mad and I almost sort of crave that.

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

There’s a part of me that wants him to be angry with me, maybe because I think it will show that he cares. It’s sort of embarrassing, really, because there’s a huge part of me that would feel hurt and shamed if he were mad at me, but as I look back at my relationship with my T, it seems like I’ve been trying to create scenarios where he might get mad and I almost sort of crave that.

I never wanted my former T to be mad at me. I was kind of scared of it. And then one day she was. I was bewildered because I didn't even think whatever she was mad about (I can't even remember what it was) was a big deal. And then she got over it and I learned that I could survive her getting angry with me. I never want anyone to be angry with me because I'm scared of anger, so I find it fascinating that you equate someone being angry with you with showing caring. I can't quite make that leap in my mind. I think because in my formative years, anger was very scary and very threatening, and very destructive. Not my anger, the grown ups anger. But it does make me question whether or not caring and anger can exist at the same time. Thanks for bringing that up.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by SlumberKitty

I never wanted my former T to be mad at me. I was kind of scared of it. And then one day she was. I was bewildered because I didn't even think whatever she was mad about (I can't even remember what it was) was a big deal. And then she got over it and I learned that I could survive her getting angry with me. I never want anyone to be angry with me because I'm scared of anger, so I find it fascinating that you equate someone being angry with you with showing caring. I can't quite make that leap in my mind. I think because in my formative years, anger was very scary and very threatening, and very destructive. Not my anger, the grown ups anger. But it does make me question whether or not caring and anger can exist at the same time. Thanks for bringing that up.

Wow, I can’t believe your T got mad at you. That seems sort of untherapisty and I’m sorry that happened. And I completely understand being scared of anger. I am too, really. Maybe I mean less anger and more stern? Anyway, it all probably has something to do with the way we experienced anger in the past, right? My father was pretty absent and then took his own life when I was a teenager, so I think maybe I felt sort of unseen by him. Any sort of strong emotion towards me might have meant that he noticed me. I agree that anger is sort of a weird one to choose though.

[SlumberKitty]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Wow, I can’t believe your T got mad at you. That seems sort of untherapisty and I’m sorry that happened. And I completely understand being scared of anger. I am too, really. Maybe I mean less anger and more stern? Anyway, it all probably has something to do with the way we experienced anger in the past, right? My father was pretty absent and then took his own life when I was a teenager, so I think maybe I felt sort of unseen by him. Any sort of strong emotion towards me might have meant that he noticed me. I agree that anger is sort of a weird one to choose though.

It was sort of untherapisty come to think of it. But we got through it.

I'm sorry about your father...I can understand that any strong emotion would mean being seen. Being seen is important. Again, thanks for sharing.

[Ididitmyway]

Yeah, "daddy issue" was a story of the most of my life. I am happy to say "was" because it's not any more.

It was very classic - longing, attraction, destructive re-enactments of some of the dynamics of my childhood relationship with my father who was emotionally abusive to me, erotic and other kinds of transference with therapists (all of whom were older males). Most of those "father surrogates" abused me and, instead of healing the original trauma, I was re-traumatized.

I am really happy to say that this whole **** is over now and it's been for a while. After my relationship with my last therapist ended, I just decided that I was done with searching for a 'daddy" and that I didn't need any daddies any more. That part of me that needed a "daddy" or someone who'd heal this primary wound through a relationship, that part has died and it has died for good. I finally felt the breath of fresh air, like I was reborn when that happened.

What's more, I feel like relationships in general are overrated. We need people in our life and we need relationships, no doubt about it. But looking for relationships in the hope that they would heal us and make us whole is a futile task and a guaranteed disappointment.

[Merope]

I think a lot of it does have to do with being 'seen'. My biological father was physically abusive towards my mother and after he left, I was very confused about what anger meant. I was three, but part of me felt that because he wasn't abusive towards me (I didn't consider it abuse at the time) he didn't care. After he left, all my fantasies around father figures had an element of anger in them, purely because I thought that people only see you when they are angry at you.

I think that kids do have to experience anger from parents, but obviously in a healthy way. I think that's what those of us who want Ts and other father figures to be angry are trying to reenact: the healthy sort of anger that comes with good parenting.

Ididitmyway, I think not needing these things any more is not a bad place to be in. I mean...no matter how good one's "father figure" is, they will never be able to fully satisfy that thirst for a dad in the real sense of the word. I hope that one day I will no longer think I need this so much and just let go and get on with my life.

Thank you to all who replied to this.

[nicoleflynn]

I did not know my father, and met him when I was 30; I didn't think much about it; it was the "norm"

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

What's more, I feel like relationships in general are overrated. We need people in our life and we need relationships, no doubt about it. But looking for relationships in the hope that they would heal us and make us whole is a futile task and a guaranteed disappointment.

I completely agree with this. Especially looking for "parental treatment" as adults. I just think that's impossible as we are not children anymore, no matter how we did not receive good enough parenting as kids. I also kinda doubt that many adults would enjoy being talked to, cared for and generally treated as children by other adults. People talk about child parts and such things, but encouraging an adult to satisfy childhood-type needs can be quite misguided IMO. If nothing else, it encourages an avoidance to accept and take responsibility for whatever we do and kinda encourages a dissociated type of relating. I think it can be warranted as part of the treatment of some real dissociative issues, or even as a way to explore our various motives in symbolic ways, but I really think Ts who claim to be parent substitutes can do a lot of harm.

I also don't believe that all psychological issues are due to insufficient relationships in childhood (and thus should be healed through relationships). It tends to be a basic tenet of many therapies, probably in part because a T really cannot do much more, therapy is basically a social interaction mostly. It is really wrong, IMO, when they say that therapy can heal all or even most psych issues, just keep going.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I completely agree with this. Especially looking for "parental treatment" as adults. I just think that's impossible as we are not children anymore, no matter how we did not receive good enough parenting as kids.

Yes. That's not to discard the idea that what we didn't receive as kids was important and that the lack of it affected us in our adult life. That's just to say that what's done is done and it's impossible to compensate for it or to replenish the lack of "emotional nutrients" through re-parenting us when we are adults. Re-parenting adults doesn't work in my experience.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I also kinda doubt that many adults would enjoy being talked to, cared for and generally treated as children by other adults.

Certainly not. Though some seem to enjoy it and crave it in therapy. But that's because therapy implants the idea that this kind of experience is supposed to heal people somehow.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

People talk about child parts and such things, but encouraging an adult to satisfy childhood-type needs can be quite misguided IMO.

I disagree, but it depends on what exactly we are talking about when we say "childhood-type needs". Many human needs of adults and children are the same. We need love, respect, acceptance, understanding, support, encouragement etc. at any age. If we didn't get these essential needs satisfied in early childhood and adolescence that doesn't make them "childhood-type needs". They are just human needs and the hunger to satisfy them that we carry from childhood has to be satisfied somehow for the sake of our well-being. Otherwise, we'll get sick not only mentally but often physically because physical health is connected to emotional health. In the same way as our health gets deteriorated from poor nutrition, lack of exercise, lack of fresh air and other healthy environmental conditions. Our organism needs emotional nourishment just as much as it needs physical nourishment to be healthy and to function properly. There is no difference.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

If nothing else, it encourages an avoidance to accept and take responsibility for whatever we do and kinda encourages a dissociated type of relating.

Again, it depends on what kind of needs we are talking about. If we are talking about the need to have a "mommy" or "daddy" surrogate when we are adults then yeah, encouraging this kind of infantile attitude and infantile cravings is ultimately disempowering. If we are talking about fundamental human needs that weren't met in childhood, I don't see how satisfying them would lead to avoidance of responsibility for one's behavior. I think, the more we are able to find healthy ways to nourish our souls the stronger and more mature we become.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I think it can be warranted as part of the treatment of some real dissociative issues, or even as a way to explore our various motives in symbolic ways, but I really think Ts who claim to be parent substitutes can do a lot of harm.

Undoubtedly so. I, actually, don't think taking on a parent role should be a part of treatment of any issues. In fact, I believe, the more severe the issue is, the more dangerous the "re-parenting" game can become, because people with severe disturbances don't have enough of the integrated "self" to recognize and to resist therapist's manipulations. We've seen quite a few people here, on PC, who are relatively stable and integrated, but even they have a hard time seeing this "re-parenting" game as dangerous. But, at least, they have the capacity to feel that something is wrong and to stay on alert. That's why they come here and seek independent opinions from outsiders. A person with dissociative issues or other major disturbances wouldn't even have this protective mechanism.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I also don't believe that all psychological issues are due to insufficient relationships in childhood

Well..not all of them for sure, but, I believe, most of them are. I wasn't brainwashed by the profession to believe it. I discovered it on my own long before I decided to pursue this field of study as a career. And, I discovered it not because I lived in the "therapy culture" that's very prominent in the US. It happened long before I immigrated here, and, in the place where it happened, psychotherapy didn't even exist as a profession.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

(and thus should be healed through relationships).

No, it shouldn't. And, this is exactly my point. Just because the problems had started in relationships doesn't mean they should be healed through relationships. From a purely intellectual view healing relational problems through relationships sounds sensible and logical, but, as I've discovered, emotions don't operate by the rules of the intellectual linear logic. The problem might've started as a relational problem, and that's why people believe that the way to "undo" or to "fix" it is through new, better relationships. Not going to work. The healing comes from the inner work only. A therapist can help to facilitate this work through their knowledge of the process, but they can't help it through a "relationship" with a client. The idea of healing oneself through a "good" relationship should be buried and should RIP if any healing is to take place.

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

It tends to be a basic tenet of many therapies, probably in part because a T really cannot do much more, therapy is basically a social interaction mostly. It is really wrong, IMO, when they say that therapy can heal all or even most psych issues, just keep going.

I couldn't agree more. I think, the profession would do the public a great service if and when they finally come clean about how much they really know and how much they really can do. The limitations of therapy is the most important thing to include in the informed consent. In fact, I think, there should be a consumer brochure issued by licensing boards that clearly outlines the limits of therapy and what can and cannot be realistically expected. Otherwise, it's just a fraud, which it currently is.

[MRT6211]

I can relate heavily to what you’re saying, but not with a father figure, with a mother figure. Everything you said applies, especially the fantasies of them being stern. I often have those. And my current T and T before that have both been fairly stern with me, and I’ve done best with that approach.

As for what led to this for me...I grew up without a father, and I ended up with the association that men are inherently uncaring and unreliable, so I absolutely cannot work with a male therapist. I’ve tried. I feel no emotional connection whatsoever and I hate going to therapy. Yet, every female therapist I have, I cling to like I’m their needy child. I think that tells me that I didn’t get what I needed from my mom, who was a single mom raising 4 kids after my dad left, and so now I have unmet needs in that area. Therapy often meets those needs, when it’s going well.