[nottrustin]

Since I am essentially now working with only my 2nd T this is all new to me. Have you been in the situation where a T had a significant different opinion on something in your treatment or have you hoped they would?

A few years ago after being put on a horrible position of watching my brother repeatedly act inappropriately around teenage girls T convinced me that I needed to break off all forms of contact with him. I was torn as he is family, has two toddlers who I adore and want to be involved with, I already have a really small family and feel it is my job to keep our family together. She told me that if I didn't contact she would have to report it as I had a teenage daughter and frequently have young girls visiting my home. She went as far as saying if he ever did anything to my daughter she would close her business and relinquish her license.

So I did it. It has been painful and something T and I would occasionally discuss after I would look him up on facebook or my other brother (who knows the situation and has been repeatedly asked not to mention him) will talk about something my brother has done.

Yesterday was my brothers 50th birthday. I tried to look him up on face book but he has now blocked me. In my appointment with Emdr T I mentioned it being his birthday. She already knew the basics of me not having contact. A part of me had hoped she would disagree with T and feel it was okay to have limited contact. She asked why I was torn I explained why I hated breaking the relationship and how painful it is. So she asked why behind why T felt it was important to do it. I explained all the reasons and included some new information that came to light last year and why it was in important for my well being. Putting all the information it makes total sense but doesn't hurt any less.

Part of me had hoped EMDR T wouldn't have agreed with T. Not really sure why. She completely agreed with T. I don't know why I wanted that to happen as I completely trusted T and know it was not something she took lightly. Nor would I have necessarily changed my mind.

Sorry so long.. if your T has disagreed with a previous provider how have you handled it??

I think the reasoning behind breaking contact is important.
You don't seem to be laying much emphasis on that instead projecting the responsibility of what is really, from your description here, a very important one.
At the end of the day you could walk away from treatment providers and resume contact.
I've not had my T tell me what I should do in any instance. But then I'm not actively connected to anyone they might be a danger to me or my family.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Trace62

I think the reasoning behind breaking contact is important.
You don't seem to be laying much emphasis on that instead projecting the responsibility of what is really, from your description here, a very important one.
At the end of the day you could walk away from treatment providers and resume contact.
I've not had my T tell me what I should do in any instance. But then I'm not actively connected to anyone they might be a danger to me or my family.

Yeah I could walk away. One of the reasons I have is that while I feel feel torn they know know that I would really beat myself up if anything were to happen. So T kept me focused on the whys and helped me stay firm. Looks like I can rely on EMDR T do the same

[coolibrarian]

I basically took care of my brother during the last year of his life. But I made sure he was never around certain people, because he...well...this is so hard to say. I'm pretty sure he had an unhealthy relationship with children, especially boys, but sometimes girls. I think there are many possible reasons for this, but, like me, he grew up in a household rife with depression, abuse, and neglect. He was a chronic alcoholic with some chronic illnesses; if he had stopped drinking, chances are he'd still be alive. I don't know if I would ever confront him about his...strangeness. I'm pretty sure he never acted out his feelings in person with any kids...there were always other adults around and this was in a public setting. He was highly educated, but I think he was also a 10-year-old boy in his head, and drank because he knew the truth, that he could never be 10 for always. Anyway, the reason I am saying all this is: don't try to form a new connection with your brother, painful though it may be. You can still love him, if you want, just don't have contact with him. Detach with love, for your own sake. Gentle hugs.

[nottrustin]

Cool, thank you for your response. Unfortunately, my brother has acted on it many times. He is now married to a women who was his daughters best friend. the got married shortly after she turned 18. Looking back the we quite a few signs something read going on well before she turned 18. He has also had multiple other relationships with 16 year olds. The authorities start to investigate so he ups and moves. The parents are happy he is gone and so the investigation stopped. I always thought I could keep my daughter safe by making sure they were never alone. Which is the case. Even though she didn't know about his ways she felt uncomfortable when he was around so she avoided him as much possible.

[Ididitmyway]

First, to answer your question "if your T has disagreed with a previous provider how have you handled it??", I think, you might've meant if "your T agreed" ?? because that's what flows logically from your description of how your emdr T agreed with your other T.

In any case, I never saw two Ts at the same time, and when I ended the work with one and moved to the other one, whatever problems I had with the previous T, the current T seemed to "take my side", so that was never an issue.

Now, in terms of your situation, I can't not to comment on your T insistence to break off contact with your brother. I understand from your description that your brother's behavior around underage girls may be more than just inappropriate. What I don't understand is why your T isn't just reporting it to the authorities if she believes that something is going on that deserves reporting? Why did she tell you that she'd have to report it IF you don't cut ties with him? What does reporting have to do with you having or not having a relationship with your brother?

She is a mandated reporter, as all therapists are. If she believes that your brother is sexually abusing minors, she is legally obligated to report it REGARDLESS of whether you have a relationship with your brother or not. Why is she making her reporting responsibility dependent on your continuous contact with your brother?

It is not her place, as a therapist, to advice you on a status of your relationship with anyone and, it is certainly not her place to DEMAND that you cut ties with someone for whatever reason. She has to follow her legal and ethical obligation to report regardless of your personal choices in regards to your brother.

And saying to you that she'd have to close her practice and relinquish her license if your brother did anything to your daughter is just a bunch of horseshit. She has nothing to fear if she reports what she is mandated to report (again, if she has a reason to believe that it is reportable).

I understand emotional reactions people have towards the behavior your brother displays, but, when someone is a professional, they have to deal with it professionally. I don't see your T behaving professionally in this situation. Besides, if she knows the details that require reporting and she didn't report them to the appropriate authorities, then she is also breaking the law.

[nottrustin]

The reason she didn't report it was completely second hand knowledge with no proof. We knew there were reports made on multiple occasions. But for whatever reasons that I don't know, nothing has ever been done to him. However, if I allowed him into my home around children knowing what I knew, even if I think I could keep everybody safe, she was totally not comfortable. She felt I would knowingly allow him around my child. She was looking out for my child as well as myself. With my abuse history and such it would destroy me. She said if anything happened to my daughter she felt she would have greatly failed as a therapist and failed me She was a therapist for 40 years and worked a lot with sex abuse victims so she knew her responsibilities not only legally but morally. She also knew how crappy the system is on my area.

We had been discussing my brother and she was strongly encouraging me to break the contact. I was dragging my feet. She didn't mention closing her business until after severing contact. As far as mentioning being a mandated reporter that happened during a series of emails when some where received and read out of order. So it was also after I actually sent my brother the text. But yeah I was angry with her for a while and we talked about it for a while before I understood her reasoning.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

The reason she didn't report it was completely second hand knowledge with no proof.

It doesn't matter. The law doesn't require a therapist to have a prove of abuse. The law says that a therapist has to only have a "reasonable suspicion" that abuse might be taking place in order to report. No one expects a therapist to be an investigator or a judge. It is not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to exercise their sound judgment and based on that to decide if something warrants reporting.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's a second hand knowledge. If the knowledge is gained while a therapist is functioning in their professional capacity, they are still required to report it, again, if they believe that abuse might be taking place.

Originally Posted by nottrustin

We knew there were reports made on multiple occasions.

This also doesn't matter. It makes no difference how many times it was reported before. The fact that something has been reported before doesn't relieve a therapist of their legal responsibility to report it. I had to report cases that were reported many times before. Mandate is mandate, nothing changes it.

Originally Posted by nottrustin

However, if I allowed him into my home around children knowing what I knew, even if I think I could keep everybody safe, she was totally not comfortable.

This is understandable. And it was totally appropriate for her to caution you about it. What was not appropriate is to put the entire responsibility for taking care of this issue on you when she, in fact, had her own responsibility to report your brother's behavior around minors to CPS, which she didn't fulfill.

And, also, while it's completely understandable that she was concerned about well-being of your children and wanted to put you on alert, it was unprofessional of her to demand that you cut ties with your brother. Not letting him be around your daughters is one thing, but ending the relationship all together is another.

I want to make it clear that I am not expressing an opinion on whether you should or shouldn't have ended the relationship with your brother. I have no opinion on that. I believe it is entirely your personal choice and I also believe your therapist should've left it up to you to decide.

She could've and should've explained the situation as she was seeing it and alerted you to all the dangers both to your children and to you, but the choice of what to do was ultimately yours.

If you had allowed your brother to be around your daughters and something had happened, you could've been legally in trouble, as well as your brother (not to mention the harm that would've been done to your children, of course), which is, again, something perfectly appropriate for her to tell you. But the choice of what to do with this information was ultimately yours and responsibility for any consequences would've been yours.

She should've only taken care of her professional responsibility, which, in this case, was to report your brother's behavior.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

It doesn't matter. The law doesn't require a therapist to have a prove of abuse. The law says that a therapist has to only have a "reasonable suspicion" that abuse might be taking place in order to report. No one expects a therapist to be an investigator or a judge. It is not their responsibility. Their responsibility is to exercise their sound judgment and based on that to decide if something warrants reporting.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's a second hand knowledge. If the knowledge is gained while a therapist is functioning in their professional capacity, they are still required to report it, again, if they believe that abuse might be taking place.


This also doesn't matter. It makes no difference how many times it was reported before. The fact that something has been reported before doesn't relieve a therapist of their legal responsibility to report it. I had to report cases that were reported many times before. Mandate is mandate, nothing changes it.


This is understandable. And it was totally appropriate for her to caution you about it. What was not appropriate is to put the entire responsibility for taking care of this issue on you when she, in fact, had her own responsibility to report your brother's behavior around minors to CPS, which she didn't fulfill.

And, also, while it's completely understandable that she was concerned about well-being of your children and wanted to put you on alert, it was unprofessional of her to demand that you cut ties with your brother. Not letting him be around your daughters is one thing, but ending the relationship all together is another.

I want to make it clear that I am not expressing an opinion on whether you should or shouldn't have ended the relationship with your brother. I have no opinion on that. I believe it is entirely your personal choice and I also believe your therapist should've left it up to you to decide.

She could've and should've explained the situation as she was seeing it and alerted you to all the dangers both to your children and to you, but the choice of what to do was ultimately yours.

If you had allowed your brother to be around your daughters and something had happened, you could've been legally in trouble, as well as your brother (not to mention the harm that would've been done to your children, of course), which is, again, something perfectly appropriate for her to tell you. But the choice of what to do with this information was ultimately yours and responsibility for any consequences would've been yours.

She should've only taken care of her professional responsibility, which, in this case, was to report your brother's behavior.

Thank you for your concerns. I am comfortable with the way she handled it. There was nothing more she would have liked than to report him and have it all stop. She made many reports in her career and she would have really struggled in this case.. However she would have done it as she felt by allowing him into my home I would knowingly be putting my children in harm's way. She knew the full details about what and how I knew of the situation and that the only person who I even knew ther names of was the person who married.

[Deejay14]

Trust me...it is neat impossible to say you would never leave your kids alone with him. Life happens much different than we,plan it and an abuser knows how to take advantage in a very short period of time. What if you had to leave your kids with a friend who had no idea about your brother? The possibilities are numerous.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

Thank you for your concerns. I am comfortable with the way she handled it. There was nothing more she would have liked than to report him and have it all stop. She made many reports in her career and she would have really struggled in this case.. However she would have done it as she felt by allowing him into my home I would knowingly be putting my children in harm's way. She knew the full details about what and how I knew of the situation and that the only person who I even knew ther names of was the person who married.

It didn't look from your original post that you were comfortable with the way she handled it. Otherwise you wouldn't be hoping for a different opinion (your thread is literally titled "Hoping for a different opinion"), and that's why you posted about it here or so it seems.

I am not telling you how to feel about this. I don't care if you are comfortable with how your therapist handled it or not. You didn't seem comfortable in your OP, but if you now say otherwise, whatever, I don't care. You posted this to get input from others and I am giving you my input. If you don't like it, that's fine with me.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Deejay14

Trust me...it is neat impossible to say you would never leave your kids alone with him. Life happens much different than we,plan it and an abuser knows how to take advantage in a very short period of time. What if you had to leave your kids with a friend who had no idea about your brother? The possibilities are numerous.

This I know which is why I ultimately made the decision. As much as it hurt to stop all contact and sometimes I question it and wish I could go back, it would have been way worse to have her any of my friends kids hurt.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

It didn't look from your original post that you were comfortable with the way she handled it. Otherwise you wouldn't be hoping for a different opinion (your thread is literally titled "Hoping for a different opinion"), and that's why you posted about it here or so it seems.

I am not telling you how to feel about this. I don't care if you are comfortable with how your therapist handled it or not. You didn't seem comfortable in your OP, but if you now say otherwise, whatever, I don't care. You posted this to get input from others and I am giving you my input. If you don't like it, that's fine with me.

I also stated in the original post: Part of me had hoped EMDR T wouldn't have agreed with T. Not really sure why. She completely agreed with T. I don't know why I wanted that to happen as I completely trusted T and know it was not something she took lightly. Nor would I have necessarily changed my mind. Sorry so long.. if your T has disagreed with a previous provider how have you handled it??

It wasn't her handling of the situation that I was talking about. I have been trying to figure out why I would have wanted to have a different opinion. So my post was about trying to figure that out and find out I'd other people had Ts who had different opinions on issues. And if so how would they handle it.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by nottrustin

I also stated in the original post: Part of me had hoped EMDR T wouldn't have agreed with T. Not really sure why. She completely agreed with T. I don't know why I wanted that to happen as I completely trusted T and know it was not something she took lightly. Nor would I have necessarily changed my mind. Sorry so long.. if your T has disagreed with a previous provider how have you handled it??

It wasn't her handling of the situation that I was talking about. I have been trying to figure out why I would have wanted to have a different opinion. So my post was about trying to figure that out and find out I'd other people had Ts who had different opinions on issues. And if so how would they handle it.

Thanks for clarifying. As I said in my first comment, I didn't have an experience when I'd be seeing two Ts at the same time and they would have a different opinion about something. (I guess, that's the reason why ethical rules don't allow Ts to work with clients who are currently in therapy with other Ts unless by mutual agreement.) I had three main Ts, all of whom I was seeing at different times, so this was never an issue. I think, if I was seeing two Ts at the same time who had a different opinion about a particular situation, it'd get me very confused and anxious and I'd feel like I had to choose only one of them, the one whose opinion would feel right.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Thanks for clarifying. As I said in my first comment, I didn't have an experience when I'd be seeing two Ts at the same time and they would have a different opinion about something. (I guess, that's the reason why ethical rules don't allow Ts to work with clients who are currently in therapy with other Ts unless by mutual agreement.) I had three main Ts, all of whom I was seeing at different times, so this was never an issue. I think, if I was seeing two Ts at the same time who had a different opinion about a particular situation, it'd get me very confused and anxious and I'd feel like I had to choose only one of them, the one whose opinion would feel right.

I made sure they both knew I was seeing the other before even seeing EMDR T. When I was seeing them at the same time Emdr T was pretty much only dealing with Emdr. She felt T was my primary T and she was just there to help. They spoke to each other a couple of times about me (with appropriate releases) while there were some confusion and struggles we were all committed to working through it.
The problems have arisen because T died unexpectedly in June. No time for transition and now Emdr T and I are trying to back up after seeing each other for a year to give her all the details that she didn't need before.

[healinginprogress]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

Now, in terms of your situation, I can't not to comment on your T insistence to break off contact with your brother. I understand from your description that your brother's behavior around underage girls may be more than just inappropriate. What I don't understand is why your T isn't just reporting it to the authorities if she believes that something is going on that deserves reporting? Why did she tell you that she'd have to report it IF you don't cut ties with him? What does reporting have to do with you having or not having a relationship with your brother?

She is a mandated reporter, as all therapists are. If she believes that your brother is sexually abusing minors, she is legally obligated to report it REGARDLESS of whether you have a relationship with your brother or not. Why is she making her reporting responsibility dependent on your continuous contact with your brother?

I don't believe this too be true. She's mandated to report if she believes or knows of a specific child that is being abused. Not just a general statement that he may now be abusing, or in the past abused, teenagers. That's why she would report if the OP let her brother visit, or continue contact; because then the OP's daughter would be the (potential) victim.

I assume you're talking about reporting to CPS since that's where the term mandated reporter usually comes in.

[Ididitmyway]

Originally Posted by healinginprogress

I don't believe this too be true. She's mandated to report if she believes or knows of a specific child that is being abused. Not just a general statement that he may now be abusing, or in the past abused, teenagers. That's why she would report if the OP let her brother visit, or continue contact; because then the OP's daughter would be the (potential) victim.

I assume you're talking about reporting to CPS since that's where the term mandated reporter usually comes in.

I assumed from OP postings that they know specific children their brother was around.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by Ididitmyway

I assumed from OP postings that they know specific children their brother was around.

I knew of specific children (in most cases not the name) after the fact when information came out and he was supposedly being investigated. Once he was at my house and I was uncomfortable because he was holding "the babysiiters" hand and rubbing her back. His wife was there as well." It was gross and I was uncomfortable which is how the subject came up with T. It triggered some of my abuse. However, she felt that it was not enough to go on. A short time later we found out he was once again being investigated but moved out of town and the investigation dropped.