[Lama2006]

I've been seeing a therapist for a while now. Initially I thought he was good for me but he has become increasingly aggressive and doesn't seem to care much about whether or not he's getting me wrong.

I noticed just a few off-putting things initially. Initially it was more like little moments where he'd cut across me or say something dumb/inane and/or insinuating, but lately it's just bordered on the psychotic. 3 sessions ago we had a heated argument over whether or not my social graces were up to scratch after explaining how a touchy relative detonates into a screaming match if I don't give her the red carpet treatment. It doesn't have to even be an actual social mistake - I mentioned this and the fact that she does this to EVERYONE including her mother, who she hurls abuse at in front of guests. He ignored that last statement, acted like it was just me she does it to and started trying to make out I was constantly making social faux pas with everyone and started arguing the toss on that basis, including finishing off my sentences to change their meaning (honestly, are we in 4th grade?) to suit his view. At the end of the session I nearly walked out without paying him and then he goes 'are you going to pay me?'. I walked away feeling like crap and thinking 'he might have a point' but realised after a while that he may have deliberately conned me into making a social mistake, particularly the way he didn't move an inch at the end of the session (he usually gets up and I hand over the fee without having to be asked, so he obviously disrupted the rythm to catch me out).

I've begun to realise he doesn't waste many opportunities to disparage me or hack into me and has gotten into tirades - one session he ranted at me over how negative I am and screamed 'why can't you just let go of past events!!!' and when I explained it's not that simple he started getting snotty and on his high horse, talking down on me and how I'm "not empowered", then literally turned his nose up at me. Then in the last session he referred to the last 2 sessions, which were brutal, by going "the way I've been with you the last 2 sessions, confronting the source of your problems, that's real therapy" - it's hard to explain but it just sounded from the snotty tone he used like to round this all off he was deliberately trying to make me feel small and worthless as if he really meant "those easy sessions, you thought they were real therapy". I was also trying to explain to him what I was doing to take charge of my life and he very abruptly went 'no, this has to be from you!'. I'm still at a loss as to what that was about - surely you say say that when someone ISN'T taking charge NOT the opposite, and I wasn't blaming other people or moaning in any way.

He has acted like such a contrarian eg one week he was tearing into me over not getting out enough, then a few weeks later when explaining how I was doing an urban dance lesson he abruptly went 'That seems a bit weird for someone with social anxiety going to a dance, surely that will be difficult for you'. I was completely thrown by this particularly describing it as 'a dance', a vastly, vastly different event to a 'dance lesson'. When I tried to explain why I was doing it he kept repeatedly interrupting me so I couldn't finish my sentences - it was like when someone knows that what you say doesn't suit them so decides to silence you. For starters the fact that it was dance lesson made a massive difference as it was much more relaxed.

There's also been several times where he's gone and said things like "you don't know that you just said" when I know full well word for word what I said. I got fed up with it and in my last session deliberately threw in an odd comment when discussing my teens to see if he would see the difference. I was going to say 'in my teens girls started taking interest in me when I was 16' and decided to throw in 'believe it or not' and said to myself "bet he goes 'you don't know what you just said'", which of course he duly did. Even after explaining that I had deliberately thrown that in he STILL INSISTED that I "didn't know" that I had just said it and he lost a lot of credibility in my eyes.

Until the last session I'd felt "he's just trying to sharpen and toughen me up" and also noticed that many of his observations are accurate - observations on my difficulties with expressing what I feel, that I talk too much about causes of problems and not enough about solutions, his insights on problems with my family and on my lack of warmth in social interactions. It was simply a case of "it's not what he's saying, but how he's saying it" and I felt that he had a point with my social graces, even if he did genuinely play a trick on me.

But that changed in the last session. In previous sessions I had commented on my disappointments in dating. I had also explained that I felt worried I might be too anxious about it - judging by the tirade he went into he had clearly ignored those concerns to facilitate talking down on me. I was trying to discuss a humiliating situation where my mother patronised me at 17 by telling everyone at a social gathering I was 'not into girls yet'. In previous sessions I'd discussed this issue that I'd had with my my mother trying to keep me from dating as a teen and in college had had multiple issues with her when I had girlfriends - until then he showed astute understanding of the issues, then suddenly it was as if an alien had wiped his memory (and selectively). Instead of understanding that I was having issues with past humiliations he decided to miss the point and fire condescending remarks at me like 'lots of guys don't have girlfriends aged 17'. He still didn't back down after I explained "no, you're missing the point. It was a humiliating experience because I was being belittled. I couldn't give a **** if I had no girlfriend, hell even if I'd never had one by now I couldn't give a ****, but being patronised about it was wrong and humiliating'. I feel like I should have also said "FYI, I don't think dating is the be-all and end-all before you start lecturing me about that" but instead he jumped in and went into a tirade, thinking he still had something on me, when I pulled him up with "No, I don't feel that way about dating. In fact I know exactly how I feel about dating" instead of apologising (why in the name of Christ would I lie or how on earth would I 'not know' what I think?) he just started disputing it at every turn. He started by going over details of previous sessions, mainly which he got wrong (this was the first time he misremembered things and the limit for me), and when I picked him up on that (his memory seems crappy and/or deliberately filtered and/or strategically altered) he resorted to finishing off my sentences to change their meaning. Funny how he never finishes off sentences to make them mean things he doesn't want to hear.

I feel like he's crossed a line by not showing any grace when making errors either in his rubbish note taking or abysmal perceptiveness - I also pulled him up on his mental filtering of previous sessions, not just on the dating issue, but the times he's switched positions like with the dance lesson and I just got more weasely ducking and diving from him. And I've noticed how my anxiety has shot up in recent months since seeing him - it's like doing little things scare me now. Now I'm really seeing how shaky my confidence has gotten and where I make basic social errors with friends I didn't​ do before.

I'm still conflicted - a voice inside keeps telling me I just need to respond to him as that way I'll improve my drive, but him starting to get things so remorselessly wrong has me worried. I'm also aware that my own self drive is probably not as good as I think it is and that self drive is more important in therapy than the ins and outs of details. I'm just wondering as I've never been in therapy before and have heard confrontation is part of it. Any ideas?

[LonesomeTonight]

I would change therapists. Yes, challenging the client can be a therapeutic technique, but he sounds outwardly hostile toward you! Sounds like he might have his own stuff going on, especially if he didn't used to be this way. In other words, it's him, not you. I think you need to find a new T--sounds like he's hurting more than helping...

[DodgersMom]

if you are unhappy, yes change

this is what i worry about, seeing so much stories like this, mine is awesome right now but i worry he will flip a switch. sadly though that would just deter me from therapy all together and not just shopping around

i am sorry he turned out to be such a jerk. hopefully you can find one you really feel comfortable with

[Out There]

Based on what you have said , I would look for another T. My T's challenge a bit but not in that manner. And anything along the lines of " Why can't you let go of the past ? " and how past humiliations make us feel. Uh , no.

[Pennster]

I would run away from this guy. I have heard that confrontation is part of some people's therapies, but I could never tolerate it and no therapist has ever used it on me.

Since you're in London, maybe you could look into finding a compassion-focused therapist? I think there are several there. It's the opposite of confrontational - works on building up your own resources to help yourself and treat yourself kindly. Googling "compassion-focused therapy in London" comes up with several results.

[ScarletPimpernel]

My T pushes me a little, but she's never confrontational. She's very encouraging and reassuring. I could never see a T like yours. I can't think of anyone that would.

[Daisy Dead Petals]

Your T sounds like he crossed the line between respectful confrontation and outright harassment or abuse. Good therapists remain empathetic while gently challenging clients. I hope you can find a therapist who is able to provide the compassion and support you (and all clients) deserve.

[Nammu]

From what you presented, I say drop him.

[kecanoe]

I would find a new t. I would not be ok with the screaming, the finishing sentences, the change in attitude toward me. And the bit about paying him? No.

[growlycat]

Good lord does he have mental health issues himself? Maybe the beginnings of a brain tumor? He sounds so volatile and angry. Is something going on in his life? It is one thing to be challenged and another to be disrespected. You deserve a t that will work with you not fight you.

[markmcc21]

Going to therapy should be therapeutic! Make sure yours is!

[Salmon77]

He sounds awful and like he doesn't listen to you at all. Telling you that you're wrong about what you yourself think or feel--sounds a little like gaslighting. Unless you're seeing some great benefit from this guy I would look for a new T with a more patient and listening kind of style.

[stopdog]

I would not stay with the one described in the OP

[Pain94]

This so sounds like my former T, I couldn't get away for the longest time but I finally did. My T now is nothing like former T. Please don't let this T go any further!

[Myrto]

That guy sounds like an absolute nightmare. There are good therapists who will challenge you without being rude, snotty or aggressive. I would drop this guy asap.

I personally like being challenged in therapy and often said to my Ts that they were not doing enough (it helps me because I tend to be quite shielded), but there are right and wrong ways of doing it. This T sounds confrontational in a defensive and self-serving way, plus does not listen and misinterprets a lot. If you want to challenge him about it and think you might get something out of doing so, perhaps bring up his attitude directly and how you feel it's hurtful and unhelpful. Otherwise I would look for a better fit.

[Wonderfalls]

If it's that bad I don't know why you would even question leaving him. Of course you should.

[Lama2006]

Originally Posted by Xynesthesia

I personally like being challenged in therapy and often said to my Ts that they were not doing enough (it helps me because I tend to be quite shielded), but there are right and wrong ways of doing it. This T sounds confrontational in a defensive and self-serving way, plus does not listen and misinterprets a lot. If you want to challenge him about it and think you might get something out of doing so, perhaps bring up his attitude directly and how you feel it's hurtful and unhelpful. Otherwise I would look for a better fit.

Update:

On Wednesday I challenged him about the level of mistakes and misreads he's made. I'd touched on it in the previous session but this time made it clear I would terminate if he didn't pay attention. He gave an unconvincing apology (it looked very much like a self appointed expert coming down from the mountain-top tbh) and then a few minutes later he started another tirade with 'You have to decide if I'm right for you', trying to pass the buck and copping out, followed by excuses for the mistakes. I slammed the fee on the table and left after I'd had enough and felt he'd wasted his final warning.

It might sound idiotic to others to have gone back but I could tell if I'd walked away without notice, even if I found successful therapy I'd still have a voice in my head saying I didn't give him a chance. I feel I put any doubts to bed by doing it that way - I might need confrontation in therapy but not in the manner he does it.

[East17]

This guy sounds like a total s**t, and has the ability to do great harm. You are worth so much more than this type of treatment.

[Salmon77]

Lama2006, that's great, I'm glad that you confronted him and followed through on terminating when his response wasn't good enough. That took guts. Good luck finding a new T.

[rainboots87]

This is completely wrong behavior on his part. I would run away from him so fast! Really, do not continue to see him- he sounds unhinged and like he will harm you more than help you. Just cancel and don't go back, please.

[koru_kiwi]

Originally Posted by Lama2006

Update:

I slammed the fee on the table and left after I'd had enough and felt he'd wasted his final warning.

[mogwaifn]

Originally Posted by Lama2006

Update:

On Wednesday I challenged him about the level of mistakes and misreads he's made. I'd touched on it in the previous session but this time made it clear I would terminate if he didn't pay attention. He gave an unconvincing apology (it looked very much like a self appointed expert coming down from the mountain-top tbh) and then a few minutes later he started another tirade with 'You have to decide if I'm right for you', trying to pass the buck and copping out, followed by excuses for the mistakes. I slammed the fee on the table and left after I'd had enough and felt he'd wasted his final warning.

It might sound idiotic to others to have gone back but I could tell if I'd walked away without notice, even if I found successful therapy I'd still have a voice in my head saying I didn't give him a chance. I feel I put any doubts to bed by doing it that way - I might need confrontation in therapy but not in the manner he does it.

Some posters seem to not realise you just terminated him (perhaps you should have added an explicit sentence saying so), but well done the way you did it.

I had a similar experience with a T years ago and really wished I'd confronted him over his mistakes - instead I walked away without saying anything after he went on holiday, as I realised my anxiety had died down from not seeing him for a few weeks. It may sound more sensible than what you did but the thing is, even after doing successful therapy with another T, I still wondered 'did I give him a chance? should I have given him a warning?' and if it could have worked out etc etc. Eventually after talking on another forum about it and hearing a range of other Ts invalidate virtually everything he said (seriously, he was a massive idiot) those voices died. Also my last T took the bad T's name down - their clinic does this to ensure aggressive and abusive therapists don't get referrals and find it hard to get jobs in major clinics in London, it was validating hearing this and explained a lot about him as he was very cheap for his age.

In terms of future therapy the biggest concern I have is in terms of building your social skills. The trick is to realise you probably have them and to learn to tackle anxiety so that it stops acting as a block/distraction to letting your social skills shine naturally - look up any expert like Philip Zimbardo and they will say this. This T's nasty trick with the payment serves to do the opposite and have you walking on eggshells, which is probably why you're finding basic social skills so hard to follow now. Even though you have walked away from him (blasted out, in fact) you probably are following a fraught approach. He would, of course play the 'oh, the patient misunderstood me' card and weasel out of it, but the way he did it sent out a very specific message, whether that message was intended or not.

Another thing I would say is if anybody gives you s**t over this give them a copy of your OP. The sensitive nature of the issues + this post modern fixation on being hypersuccinct means you might end up going silent and giving a broad snappy statement like 'he was aggressive', which doesn't do you justice - the length and extent of the issues described in the OP tell a vastly different and nastier story to just 'he was aggressive'.

There's plenty of respectful therapists out there that have exercises to help you tackle anxiety and will talk through your history and current issues without any need for aggression. Pm me for a refferal for someone in SW London - she is a little expensive and costed £85 per session when I saw her in 2009/10, but she was very attentive, respectful and knew her therapy backwards.

[Lama2006]

UPDATE:

I've just finished up with a new therapist, who I started seeing a month after I posted this. I've said it in private, but thanks again mogwaifn for the referral.

Completely different experience, she was never confrontational. The actual work we did was a little tough at the start and I needed to be pushed/motivated a bit, but I noticed a huge difference fairly quickly with anxiety. A huge thing with her was that she never got into complicated spiels and acknowledged my feelings and simply listened to what I said.


We went through a lot of work on getting that last T out of my head, which was very hard. I did probably need a kick up the backside and to come to some realisations, which happened over time, but slipping in unfair comments and explosive and/or unwarranted abuse should never be part of the deal.

I think it's important to bring this case up as my previous T clearly used my weakened mental state against me, which is where most patients are. I also complained about him, which was dealt with poorly by his accreditation body, especially after he produced his notes which were clearly fabricated to cover his arse. Even after getting help from new T to file a complaint they still automatically sided with him and she was deeply shocked by what happened.


Ultimately I've found that I ended up changing a lot of bad habits naturally, I think it's also important to spread the message as I see so many people going on forums proclaiming that therapy doesn't work based on bad experiences. It can and does. I also feel that having a decent T is way, way underplayed and this whole "You've got to do it yourself" thing is used as an excuse for bad therapy. I'm sure there are those that fail at therapy because they don't use it properly, but it can't be the only reason for therapy failing.


Anyway, I'll leave it at that as I feel like I'll give the wrong impression. I've moved on and found better therapy. It got to the point where we felt there was little else to cover and had out last session today. She was expensive, but not all good Ts are expensive. For those that have been burnt by bad therapy, just don't give up hope. I think moving on until you find a decent one is a good idea.