[Waterloo12345]

According to my doc I should consider this as a goal for this year. So not thinking that a period of upset or stress or vulnerability or even SI or running away means I am not well.

He thinks I'm better. Nb this is my medical doctor not my therapist. I've not had an opportunity to talk about it with my therapist.

But what I think he's getting at (and yes I should have asked but brain freeze) is that I may be hindering recovery or living by not realising what is a normal reaction. That it's normal to respond in x way to y and so it doesn't mean I'm unwell. Staying as a victim?

Previously he's said I had emotional deregulation issues and he first drew my attention to cptsd so he's aware of trauma etc.

But a few things have happened that I've responded to kind of ok. I think on the intense side but I guess normal is a continuum.

It may also be that I 'don't want to get better' because then the care will go. But neither he nor my therapist have ever indicated that so it's an irrational fear. But it may tie in to why I (subconsiously) want to be unwell.

I'm not sure what I'm asking here. Just wanted thoughts I guess on making the transition to living with trauma and its effects as opposed to being unwell or in continual crises.

And with the therapy I still have like major things to talk over and process so I'm not like 'better' or I still need a robust framework of support but with that I can be 'better' or have normal reactions. (By normal I'm meaning like within 2 standard deviations type and not meaning to pathologise anyone.)

I'm trying to bear in mind that doctors see the more extreme cases so I may not be unwell for him but still need therapeutic support (and meds; he doesn't advise giving that up yet) so not better better but can perhaps stretch myself a bit more? Don't have an I'm ill view?

I dunno; he just said it to me and am like argggh what does that mean? Is he telling me I'm malingering? I've an unhealthy victim mentality? Is he trying to get rid of me cause am a burden? What?????? (And I will, I hope I have the courage, ask him but it'll be a week or so till I see him). And 5 days till I see my therapist.

[susannahsays]

I don't know what he means. You'd have to ask him.

My initial reaction to the post title was that "bad patches" are actually part of some mental illnesses. Bipolar, major depressive disorder, etc. tend to be of an episodic nature.

But again, I have no idea what he meant without more context.

I feel this. I think it means that having the 'bad patches' is a part of and even instrumental in the process of moving forward. Maybe it can even be termed as forward momentum!
I'm trying to accept the trauma and the panic and all the other things as a part of who I am as a person. Some days are better than others. Usually the 'other' days are more prevalent it seems, and it's down right defeating sometimes.
It's the intent, willingness, and awareness to become well that is present that I think makes the statement true and meaningful.

[Ididitmyway]

I don't know what he meant by that, but I wouldn't worry about it at all. I don't take medical doctors' opinion on my emotional issues seriously. I am yet to find an MD who really knows how emotional trauma works and who truly understands the mind-body unity and looks at health from the holistic perspective. I don't have much faith in the medical field, but I visit doctors whenever I need to take care of some physical symptoms immediately and directly without getting deeply into their psychological causes. Some of the docs gave me pieces of their life "wisdom", which I completely dismissed (without telling them, of course). Their views were no different from the views of any average lay person on life in general. Not too bright.

[ArtleyWilkins]

I think I understand perhaps what he was getting at.

When my sister died, the grief was tremendous, but the grief was also completely in the range of normal for the event. During that time, one of the concepts I had to find clarity on was the difference between a normal grief response vs. a serious depressive episode. I was so used to serious depression, that it kind of scared me when I was grieving because I had a hard time distinguishing between the two. My therapist and my pdoc worked with me on validating my very normal, but very deep grief so that I could just allow myself to go through that process without trying to "fix it".

I think when we've spent so many years dealing with serious symptoms of mental illness, when we have normal reactions to situational events, we default to the mental illness when perhaps our response is pretty reasonable for the circumstance.

Learning to distinguish situational reactions vs. mental health downslides was important for me. It allowed me to not pathologize every stinking reaction I was having to life. It also helped me distinguish which situations I might be able to exert more personal control over vs. serious depression that has more of a life of its own and isn't always tied at all to any particular event or situation.

[satsuma]

Waterloo, I had a conversation with my T recently which I think might be similar. My T was pointing out that sometimes I think that I am terribly upset and in danger of losing control and being a criminal or something like that, when in reality I am just experiencing a normal amount of annoyance or anger to a level that everyone sometimes experiences.

[Anne2.0]

What he said makes sense to me. To some extent I am always working on being okay with not being okay. Sometimes life is hard. Sometimes it sails along like a sleek boat in still waters. Sometimes I feel such joy and happiness it makes me catch my breath, pinch myself, see if it's real. Other times I feel like I've fallen through a trap door into blackness. Learning to weather the inconsistencies of life and my internal world has been helpful to me.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Nemo1934

I feel this. I think it means that having the 'bad patches' is a part of and even instrumental in the process of moving forward. Maybe it can even be termed as forward momentum!
I'm trying to accept the trauma and the panic and all the other things as a part of who I am as a person. Some days are better than others. Usually the 'other' days are more prevalent it seems, and it's down right defeating sometimes.
It's the intent, willingness, and awareness to become well that is present that I think makes the statement true and meaningful.

This resonates with me although I think I'm right at the start of the journey to accept this is the new me. And to stop chasing perfection in wellness. Thanks!

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

I think I understand perhaps what he was getting at.

When my sister died, the grief was tremendous, but the grief was also completely in the range of normal for the event. During that time, one of the concepts I had to find clarity on was the difference between a normal grief response vs. a serious depressive episode. I was so used to serious depression, that it kind of scared me when I was grieving because I had a hard time distinguishing between the two. My therapist and my pdoc worked with me on validating my very normal, but very deep grief so that I could just allow myself to go through that process without trying to "fix it".

I think when we've spent so many years dealing with serious symptoms of mental illness, when we have normal reactions to situational events, we default to the mental illness when perhaps our response is pretty reasonable for the circumstance.

Learning to distinguish situational reactions vs. mental health downslides was important for me. It allowed me to not pathologize every stinking reaction I was having to life. It also helped me distinguish which situations I might be able to exert more personal control over vs. serious depression that has more of a life of its own and isn't always tied at all to any particular event or situation.

Yes I think this is a huge bit of it. Thanks for articulating it. For me my emotions were locked down. Then therapy began to bring them out or I began to actually realise there was such a thing as feelings. But I was hugely disregulated. It was an all or nothing feeling. I had no control, and, am thinking aloud here, it meant all feelings were a symtom of illness.

But now that I can engage in some level of regulation I too need to learn to distinguish a situational reaction v a pathological one.

I guess that's why he said 'this year'. I was like thinking it's only Jan - what's gonna take a year to learn but I can see this will take time and lived experience.

He also pointed out that my reactions to the triggers were normal- what anyone would feel. So that again resonates with what you say.

I'll need to talk it over with my therapist as I think elements of my reaction were linked to abandonment and low self esteem and fear of failure which links back to trauma but I can rationally see it's a continuum.

Thanks, this has been very thought provoking.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by satsuma

Waterloo, I had a conversation with my T recently which I think might be similar. My T was pointing out that sometimes I think that I am terribly upset and in danger of losing control and being a criminal or something like that, when in reality I am just experiencing a normal amount of annoyance or anger to a level that everyone sometimes experiences.

Wow, i think you are right but this is definitely a complex journey to healing.

I am like I've just learnt to identify emotional flashbacks and when my disproportionate reactions are due to some old trauma and now the doc wants me to learn to identify when those are normal situational reactions!?!?. Yikes. Oh well ever onwards.

[Waterloo12345]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

What he said makes sense to me. To some extent I am always working on being okay with not being okay. Sometimes life is hard. Sometimes it sails along like a sleek boat in still waters. Sometimes I feel such joy and happiness it makes me catch my breath, pinch myself, see if it's real. Other times I feel like I've fallen through a trap door into blackness. Learning to weather the inconsistencies of life and my internal world has been helpful to me.

That's kinda what he said about life except he used one word (that I cannot now recall) to encapsulate it and part of my brain was focused on the word and thinking ohhh aren't you clever. Avoidance thanks !

[Waterloo12345]

Just to add as an update. I emailed him last night, not asking about this cause he doesn't respond to that kind of thing, but an innocuous pragmatic type question he would respond to (like scheduling but not). I guess I was checking he's still there even if he thinks I'm better. He wrote back, pretty swiftly, and repeated that the way I've been dealing with stresses recently are indicative of 'being well'.

Now he's been the unfortunate recipient of a lot of emails and angst as my therapist was away for a month, so he knows exactly how I've been coping.

It's just kind of nice that someone's whose view I respect thinks I'm well. Or doing well. As long as I can hold on to the belief deep in my bones that doing well does not equal no support from him then I'm happy. I know the more i do well the less support I'll need but I struggle with doing well unless I know the whole shebang worth of support is still there. Gotta get off my sofa - no excuse to me sitting here on of at like 10.16 in my pyjamas in a work day arrrggggghhhhh

[Waterloo12345]

I'm processing in real time here, which for me is like progress because prior to this I would want to email my therapist or doctor as, at the very least, irl people walking beside me when I struggle. Baby steps hey!

But the thing is i'm procrastinating with work. Not started yet. And the day is half gone here.

And part of me wants to be like don't worry, you're tired, have a rest day, don't push yourself because you'll have a relapse (the spectre of severe depression is never far away), don't worry you are ill.

But if I'm generally well, then this is just normal procrastination, people do this all the time. Unless you are very lucky bits of work are going to be boring. There's no excuse.

But I don't feel like I did before when I didn't really procrastinate like this or to this extent. I was a v hard worker/overachiever. This is the new me. A more normal run of the mill person. But it seems like that was a 'good' trait that I've lost. It may have come from a bad place but it seems a good thing?

And also. It's like I've just accepted I'm ill with no or little shame. Just beginning to tell people. To admit it is ok. And he's like you're well. I'm.like what the hell? The framework is moving too fast for me! Hugs.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

But the thing is i'm procrastinating with work. Not started yet. And the day is half gone here.

And part of me wants to be like don't worry, you're tired, have a rest day, don't push yourself because you'll have a relapse (the spectre of severe depression is never far away), don't worry you are ill.

But if I'm generally well, then this is just normal procrastination, people do this all the time. Unless you are very lucky bits of work are going to be boring. There's no excuse.

My experience with procrastination is that it is quite normal, especially with work that is not cookie-cutter, involves analysis or writing, or where it always isn't clear what the right approach to take it. And I do think rest and not pushing yourself are important things to consider. I work hard but I also take lots of down time.

I think this unwell/well framework you are grappling with is something important. It's not just all about how you feel, but how you feel about how you feel. Tears are not an emergency and anger doesn't require retaliation. Nothing is ever going to be the same moment to moment, day to day, and so on, being able to roll with the emotional waves and still do life has been significant for me. Feeling different today than I did yesterday isn't cause for alarm and dropping everything else in the service of fixing it right now. Like if I wake up with a crick in my neck, I can either head to the emergency room or do the work with my hands/oils/foam roller/stretching/hot shower. But first I'll drink my coffee, roll my shoulders and do a little meditation, and I won't pound my neck into submission, but slowly and gently do what's needed to feel better. For me it's been about the tools and about engaging a process that works for me. But if I freak out about the pain and otherwise overwork it with an urgent need for relief, it'll stick around. Having a more collaborative perspective on both my emotional and physical pain, engaging it like it is relational rather than a foe to be anihilated (sp) has brought less pain and greater happiness.

[Waterloo12345]

This is really helpful thanks. Defo need to roll with the emotional waves and still do life. A good friend once said you move from drama to drama. Everything is a drama. She was being observant and helpful not horrid and it's true.

And the imagery of working with it and it not being a foe to be anniliated made me chuckle as it resonates. I want to be 'prefect' at wellness lol.

Thanks for the much needed perspective on procrastination. All the factors you mention are my job (barrister). Sometimes the procrastination comes from a dysfunctional place of not wanting to do anything so I can't fail at it or even be seen at all. But there is just common or garden variety procrastination. Or indeed, actually, what i thibk you mean, is that even if it comes from that dysfunctional place, it is OK- don't fight it. Acknowledge it. Carry on. Even if less, even if change to an easier task. That dysfunctional feeling does not require curling up in a ball and saying no no no.

Omg so much to learn and do and internalize. But onwards and keep on keeping on. Thanks

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

A good friend once said you move from drama to drama. Everything is a drama. She was being observant and helpful not horrid and it's true.

My word for drama is "urgency" which I think is less loaded for content. Maybe 'intensity" works too. I am not a dramatic person in the sense that I always have one real crisis after another or that I'm always having blowups with the people and systems in my life.

But my internal life once had a greater sense of urgency to "fix" whatever overwhelming feeling was leading at the time, and frustration that there wasn't a quick answer or a tried and true tool, and at times frustration with therapy or my therapist for not helping immediately or in the precise way I imagined. Learning to slow down and be less reactive to my internal whirlwind has made my life less intense and everything feels less urgent. I think my friends 20 years ago probably described me as dramatic, those I've had for longer than that remark on how "zen" I am. Even the perception of that was hard won.

[Waterloo12345]

Hi Anne, just to say thanks! I had a big on going professional stressor today and was v v anxious. Normally I would curl up and dissociate on the sofa. But I used your phrase, roll with the emotional waves and do life. So I did. Maybe not 100% but still pretty significant for me. Thanks