[Lrad123]

My therapist used to reply to emails but no longer does. He explained why, but honestly, his reasons seem fuzzy to me now so I wouldn’t know how to explain them here. To be clear, I do think he’s empathetic and kind and good, but I’m frustrated. He practices psychoanalitically and has said that he does not do supportive therapy, so maybe it’s partially related to that. Anyway, I start feeling distant and negative mid-way between our weekly sessions. Today, I sent him a brief email (he welcomes emails, but no longer responds) asking if he could just send me a sentence letting me know he’s there. He has not responded. I’m a fully functioning adult, so I don’t technically need a response from him, but it sure would be nice. I’m already feeling distant and like our relationship is a sham or an illusion so an email seemed like it might be helpful and get me back on track and feeling less skeptical about therapy. If I wasn’t in therapy I wouldn’t have these crazy feelings. I hate that I’ve let him have this power over me. I’m so tired of talking with him about how it feels to get a non-response (it sucks). I don’t want to do that again this week. We keep talking about it, but nothing changes. Now I feel like no-showing just to show him I don’t really need anything from him. I know I probably don’t ultimately want that, but it feels good to think about.

I guess I’d like convincing to go. Or not go. Or an undstanding of what this repeating cycle is all about. We are talking about moving to twice/week so maybe that will help.

[Waterloo12345]

Hopefully two sessions a week will help as you won't have time to move into distant mode.

You very likely know this already - that you set yourself up for failure - he's not going to just suddenly give in and be supportive when he's told you no it seems repeatedly. So try and set that to one side when thinking of going or no.

I don't think it's a repeating cycle so much as you differ on how to meet a need to know he's there. You want that met by email responses. He prob thinks his actions in always being at session etc shows that he's there.

So either you both find a mutually acceptable way to meet that need, e.g. 2 sessions, or you bury that need And wait for his method to work (if it does for you) or you ditch him and get a supportive one.

Seems most effective at the mo is go to session to talk and get the move to 2 sessions to start asap.

[piggy momma]

I think Waterloo said it perfectly. If he’s said he won’t reply to emails, he’s not going to just because you’ve asked him to. I totally get your frustration tho and feelings of wondering if you exist between sessions. I rely heavily heavily on email communication with my T between sessions. I’ve told him I don’t expect a response because we’re not doing e-therapy, buthe also knows how much it means to me when he does reply and so he does from time to time.

I think it’s worth trying twice a week with him, to see if that helps with the anxiety and intensity of your feelings between sessions. If also go to your upcoming session, but if it were me, I wouldn’t spend a lot of time talking about how you felt when he didn’t reply only because it sounds like you’ve addressed that multiple times before and at this point it’s like beating a dead horse.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

When he used to reply, were his response enough? Did you feel held and heard? I think the difficulty with looking to the other to reassure us about connection and positivity is that is often transient and unreliable since it is not located within ourselves.

[Anne2.0]

Reenactment and repetition compulsion come to mind. Perhaps this isn't the case, but when you keep repeating the same thing, asking him to respond to your emails when he has said he will not, expecting that it will turn out differently than the last time he said no, there is obviously more to it.

For me, recircling the same ground means there is something important going on. Do you know what is resonating for you about this issue? I could play armchair psychologist and suggest that it is someone from your past, perhaps a male authority figure, who wouldn't do what you asked, or who let you down after first being there for you, or who disappeared without warning?

I'd encourage you to go to your session. If this can be worked out, it's not going to happen by avoiding him. If you need to send him a message, look him in the face at a session and tell him what you think about what he's done. Let him have it about how he's screwed it all up and only he can fix it.

[Rive1976]

I understand. I wish I could see my therapist twice a week. That might help you not need to email.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Waterloo12345

Hopefully two sessions a week will help as you won't have time to move into distant mode.

You very likely know this already - that you set yourself up for failure - he's not going to just suddenly give in and be supportive when he's told you no it seems repeatedly. So try and set that to one side when thinking of going or no.

I don't think it's a repeating cycle so much as you differ on how to meet a need to know he's there. You want that met by email responses. He prob thinks his actions in always being at session etc shows that he's there.

So either you both find a mutually acceptable way to meet that need, e.g. 2 sessions, or you bury that need And wait for his method to work (if it does for you) or you ditch him and get a supportive one.

Seems most effective at the mo is go to session to talk and get the move to 2 sessions to start asap.

Yes, I’m hoping twice/week will help although they are on consecutive days because that’s just what worked.

I guess I am just setting myself up by constantly reaching out and then feeling rejected. I don’t think I’m usually that much of a slow learner, but for whatever reason this one’s hard. Also, about a month ago I threw an email temper tantrum and he did respond so it’s not like he’s been 100% consistent. Today I asked really nicely and thought it was a simple, reasonable request. Many months ago he would have responded. Normally (at least lately) I have not asked for an actual response. I still set myself up for feeling crummy even in that situation though. I will go on Wednesday but just have to figure out what I want to say.

[Elio]

Has he given any other suggestions on how to handle the stresses occurring between session other than the 2x a week?

Would he respond to you if you called him rather than emailed?

I know for me moving from 1x to 2x a week did not resolve my need to out of session emails. Even with the move to 3x a week, I still email roughly 40-50% of the time.

I agree with ello. Twice a week won't resolve your need to email.
T once said "even if I was with her 24/7 I'd still feel that lack off when she left the room"

Only as the lack off within you gets worked with will it lesen.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by piggy momma

but if it were me, I wouldn’t spend a lot of time talking about how you felt when he didn’t reply only because it sounds like you’ve addressed that multiple times before and at this point it’s like beating a dead horse.

I’ve told him before that this topic feels like we’re “beating a dead horse.” I could choose not to talk about it because I pretty much direct the conversation, but it would feel like the elephant in the room that we’re just ignoring. I bet he might even direct the conversation there if I didn’t. The kind of therapy I’m doing seems to focus on those kinds of things that are awkward and that you just don’t want to talk about. Totally awkward.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by SorryOozit

When he used to reply, were his response enough? Did you feel held and heard? I think the difficulty with looking to the other to reassure us about connection and positivity is that is often transient and unreliable since it is not located within ourselves.

I guess you are the voice of reason because, no, oftentimes his responses were not enough. But sometimes they were. And now that he’s not responding at all, I’d settle for any little scraps.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Reenactment and repetition compulsion come to mind. Perhaps this isn't the case, but when you keep repeating the same thing, asking him to respond to your emails when he has said he will not, expecting that it will turn out differently than the last time he said no, there is obviously more to it.

For me, recircling the same ground means there is something important going on. Do you know what is resonating for you about this issue? I could play armchair psychologist and suggest that it is someone from your past, perhaps a male authority figure, who wouldn't do what you asked, or who let you down after first being there for you, or who disappeared without warning?

I'd encourage you to go to your session. If this can be worked out, it's not going to happen by avoiding him. If you need to send him a message, look him in the face at a session and tell him what you think about what he's done. Let him have it about how he's screwed it all up and only he can fix it.

Yes, I think I’ve mentioned before that my father took his life when I was a teen. Maybe it has something to do with that, but I also feel like I’m over that (or at least I thought so was) so I’m not sure. I will go on Wednesday. I’m just trying to figure out how to approach it mentally so it feels worthwhile for me. Would it have been so hard for him to throw me a bone? Right now I can’t help but feel like he’s taking some pleasure in this.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Jessica11

I agree with ello. Twice a week won't resolve your need to email.
T once said "even if I was with her 24/7 I'd still feel that lack off when she left the room"

Only as the lack off within you gets worked with will it lesen.

If I leave therapy then I won’t feel the lack of my T. I’m sure of it and I’ve thought about it.

Originally Posted by Lrad123

If I leave therapy then I won’t feel the lack of my T. I’m sure of it and I’ve thought about it.

No. You'll just feel it in other areas in your life. Therapy just magnifies it.
I use to leak that feeling from many holes. Therapy contains it.

[piggy momma]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

If I leave therapy then I won’t feel the lack of my T. I’m sure of it and I’ve thought about it.

This is really good insight.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

Would it have been so hard for him to throw me a bone? Right now I can’t help but feel like he’s taking some pleasure in this.

Do you have some reason to believe he's a sadist and enjoys not giving you what you want? Because I can think of a number of different reasons that are not that.

I've been in the position-- as a parent, as a partner, as a friend, as a colleague of saying no to someone's request. And I've explained why, and I've had some of these people continue to ask (or beg), and I keep my answer to no. I can admire their perseverance, but at some point, I tell them they need to take no for an answer.

I tend to think that if a person tells me no, they mean no, and that asking again means that I should expect to hear the same answer, for the same reason. I am having a difficult time understanding your repeated attempts and beliefs that he should respond differently, and interpreting his reason as enjoying your suffering in some way.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Do you have some reason to believe he's a sadist and enjoys not giving you what you want? Because I can think of a number of different reasons that are not that.

I've been in the position-- as a parent, as a partner, as a friend, as a colleague of saying no to someone's request. And I've explained why, and I've had some of these people continue to ask (or beg), and I keep my answer to no. I can admire their perseverance, but at some point, I tell them they need to take no for an answer.

I tend to think that if a person tells me no, they mean no, and that asking again means that I should expect to hear the same answer, for the same reason. I am having a difficult time understanding your repeated attempts and beliefs that he should respond differently, and interpreting his reason as enjoying your suffering in some way.

I have no proof. I’m just throwing it out as one of many possibilities. I have clearly somehow ended up in a position where I want something from him emotionally (which he does not need from me) and that puts him in a position of power. My gut tells me he’s good, but I really know nothing about him and I know we can’t always blindly trust people in power.

I do not understand his reasons for not responding to my emails. I haven’t asked for a response for the past month, and today I asked my therapist, who by nature one would assume is kind and empathetic, to send me a one sentence email. He would have done this up until a few months ago. This was a sensible, non-emotional, non-angry, simple request. It would be easy for him to do and not only has he done it in the past, but he has done it wholeheartedly and even seemed to welcome it. His reasons for stopping seem unclear and fuzzy to me. His decision not to respond under any circumstances feels rigid and I believe that sometimes you need to think outside the box. I believe he has a right to do whatever feels comfortable for him, but this decision makes me feel left alone.

[susannahsays]

I doubt he's taking pleasure in the situation. I looked back at your posts, and you've said that he 1) never did emailing with any other clients other than scheduling 2) said he felt like responding via email was supporting something unhealthy and 3) didn't want to conduct therapy over email. It sounded like you two had fallen into a bit of a pattern because you were having trouble opening up in session. While that issue is definitely understandable and it makes sense that sharing things via email could be helpful, I can also see his point that responding to them is something for session. You also describe your emails as "extreme" at times, so he may also have been uncomfortable interacting with such material when not face to face and able to assess your reactions.

You seemed to understand his reasons for stopping at the time, despite the understandable distress the decision caused. Maybe it would be helpful to look back over the posts from that time frame.

I also think it should be pointed out that your therapist is working outside the box - for him. Other clients don't send him non-scheduling emails. I get that reading this forum can sometimes give you the impression that therapists are just gaga for emails, and hearing other people mention emails to/from their therapists might make you wonder if your therapist is being unreasonable. I can't answer that question, but it is not unusual at all for therapists not to accept emails from clients - not even to read them. And yours sounds pretty old-school, so I think he's making a pretty big concession breaking the frame to meet your need to the extent he thinks is therapeutic.

Your recent request may have seemed sensible, non-emotional, non-angry, and simple to you. I definitely don't think his choice to respond would have been simple. I also question if the request is sensible if you know it has already been denied, and if it is non-angry and non-emotional when there is what appears to be an implied threat that you will become those things when he doesn't respond (as you have in the past). Just something to think about.

[Lrad123]

Ok, now I’m yo-yo-ing between feeling upset that he won’t respond and feeling bad about asking too much of him. I appreciate the input. Lots to process.

[susannahsays]

I don't think you should feel bad - sorry if I gave that impression. I don't think you should feel bad. I was more trying to add some perspective or counterarguments to your reasoning - it seemed like you had yourself and him backed into a bit of corner. My goal was not to make you feel guilty.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I don't think you should feel bad - sorry if I gave that impression. I don't think you should feel bad. I was more trying to add some perspective or counterarguments to your reasoning - it seemed like you had yourself and him backed into a bit of corner. My goal was not to make you feel guilty.

No I appreciate your perspective. I do sort of feel backed in a corner, I guess, so I actually like hearing how others see things. The therapy world sometimes feels so very strange to me and I realize I’m lacking perspective. It doesn’t help that there’s no rule book.

[velcro003]

what was his exact reasoning for not emailing anymore? if you've said it, i've missed it.

[Lrad123]

Originally Posted by velcro003

what was his exact reasoning for not emailing anymore? if you've said it, i've missed it.

I feel like he’s explained it differently each time I’ve asked which is why it’s fuzzy to me. Part of is that I was expressing a lot via email, and not much in session so I think he wanted to bring stuff into session. That makes some sense to me. I think he also felt like I was “regressing” sometimes in emails and that he was supporting that by responding. Whatever the reason, I certainly don’t want to ask him to do something that doesn’t feel right to him, but I thought an occasional brief comforting response might be ok. Apparently not.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Lrad123

I feel like he’s explained it differently each time I’ve asked which is why it’s fuzzy to me. Part of is that I was expressing a lot via email, and not much in session so I think he wanted to bring stuff into session. That makes some sense to me. I think he also felt like I was “regressing” sometimes in emails and that he was supporting that by responding. Whatever the reason, I certainly don’t want to ask him to do something that doesn’t feel right to him, but I thought an occasional brief comforting response might be ok. Apparently not.

I think he has explained it very clearly, as you've articulate above. It doesn't sound fuzzy at all to me, but feeling that way seems to fuel this perception of yours that he will respond when he's said very clearly for weeks now that he won't. He didn't say he would do "an occasional brief comforting response." Perhaps as long as you continue to hold some irrational belief that he will respond, if only you can figure out some way to construct your email or your need for a response in the right way. It feels like you have some magical thinking about this, that somewhere there's a loophole in the very clear message you've been given by him. It's just a simple no. No exceptions.

You are doing nothing wrong by emailing and asking for a response. He didn't say you couldn't continue to email and ask for one, and if he is uncomfortable, he can deal with his emotions. That's not your problem.

What does seem to be your issue is somehow you're living in a fantasy where he doesn't say what he means and means what he says. Is this often true for you (rhetorical question, of course you don't have to answer) where people don't say what they mean, or where you don't say what you mean to others?

Maybe you're getting something out of this frustration you're setting up for yourself. Maybe you need to spin this out until you're done. That's where the irrational can often be rational and/or beneficial. From the outside, I'm like "dude, he's been really clear, and has been from the beginning. Your belief otherwise is irrational, as is your continuing to email and expect a response. So what's the payoff?"

[Elio]

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I'm like "dude, he's been really clear, and has been from the beginning. Your belief otherwise is irrational, as is your continuing to email and expect a response. So what's the payoff?"

I agree that OP's T has been clear about the limit/boundary here and OP continuing to try to get a response is futile. I question (or take issue with) the use of "belief" here as I wonder if it is a belief that the OP will be able to get a response or if it is a need to have the support of out of session contact. If it is the need to have that type of support/relationship with the T, then perhaps this T is not the T for the OP (something that has been commented on before). I believe, this T has stated that they do not do supportive therapy. It does seem like an impasse.

Then again, like all comments, this is colored by my own issues. I see this type of situation very black and white. The other person says no *and* if it is something I feel strongly about; I can't make them do it, so I leave and find someone else that will.

So OP - how badly do you need out of session contact or support in your therapy? What would those things do for you that will help your treatment? What did they do for you then? Are there other ways you could still get that now? It sounded like to me that you were using emails as a method to share information in a less personal way verse what might be considered object consistency seeking behavior. Is that true? If so, does acknowledging that within yourself change how you see his decision and perhaps finding a way to work with it.

How much is your treatment being hindered by not getting them? What is the price you are paying or the cost of not getting something you want (and maybe need)? What about this is the bigger/root issue and can you get those needs met differently within the context of what your T is willing to do? Can you grieve the loss (I do see it as a loss)? Can you separate out the grieving process from what is a therapeutic need?

I think it's perfectly fine to continue to talk to him about this because having something taken from you is a big deal and comes with lots of baggage. BTW, I still go back to the concept that you could call him if you needed support; unless that is also off the table. I know for me taking that step to call is a major leap where as emailing is much easier. Even with that, there have been a few times where things have been so bad that I did call her.