Emotional neglect

Wow. Thanks.

Maybe that's your superego talking.

But blame is also in the eye of the beholder.

If you don't want to blame your parents through the therapy, simply don't blame them. (Simple as in deciding to adopt that outlook.)

(You're welcome about the links.)

I think everyone experiences at least some neglect in childhood, there is no way that parents could fulfill a child's emotional needs completely. The question is more the form and extent of it, and the consequences, IMO. I do believe that it can be very useful to understand what sorts of early life experiences contributed to the development of our personalities, problems and strengths. But I am personally not a fan of dissecting far past endlessly, over and over, in a case where it is not causing significant difficulties in the present (emotional or practical). If it is causing issues, that's a different situation. I also don't think it really matters what we call these things - if it is problematic, then address it, if not, maybe a waste of too much time on it just because others think it is important.

As I think about this a bit more, it’s partially about the discomfort I feel about placing blame, but it’s also pretty hard for me to talk about things without feeling like I’m complaining or whining. In a lot of ways I actually had it pretty good, and the circumstances that were tough probably led me to flourish academically and professionally and that’s something that I’m thankful for now.

Ok, that makes sense. I've certainly felt I was whining or complaining at times, and those times did not feel good.

Now, I'm focused on moving forward so looking back at the past much less often.

Since you direct your therapy, it can be whatever you want to make it about.

For me, talking about things is what allowed me to move forward, when I could do so in a way that was both emotionally resonant to the difficulty of what I experienced, but not be engulfed by the emotionality of it so I could speak to it with the truth of it that is was. These things then became like a page in the book of my life, one I didn't need to ignore and one I didn't need to focus on.

I relate to this and also mostly thankful. One childhood experience I can relate is when I was repeatedly bullied by some other kids before age 10 in ways only children do. I don't even have any memory whether my parents were aware of it or not, I know I did not complain much and tried to deal with it myself. My parents certainly did not do anything about it as far as I am aware except my mom actually adding to the problem - the bullying was about my weight, and I was overweight because my mom was a compulsive feeder, she had difficulties expressing care in a healthy, balanced way, so used food instead. I ate it because I had no better judgment as a young kid, became overweight, and some other kids picked on that. Then everything took a sharp turn when I decided to take all of it in my own hands at 10 and lose the weight, which was very successful as weight loss and to acquire more social acceptance and respect by peers but led to many years of struggling with an eating disorder. My parents did try to interfere when it became obvious but mostly with forcing, which did not help at all, I refused it, and it just made me secretive. I don't really blame my mom (or both) for any of this because they simply did know know better, they were not very self-aware people or ones who knew much about emotional health. They were great parents in many other ways, especially my dad. I also eventually resolved the eating disorder in my mid-20s on my own and did not grow into an adult with PTSD or low self-esteem, more into a very independent person who does not care too much what others think about me (in a way that would block me or cause a lot of rumination) and is not easily manipulated, especially by insecure, passive-aggressive and vicious people. I most certainly don't feel traumatized by my childhood experiences. In contrast, some of my own free adult choices and their consequences were definitely quite traumatic, with long-term effects and even PTSD symptoms.

I think perhaps some people would consider neglect the fact that my parents did not limit me much and did not teach me much discipline and to weigh risks better - these things did cause a lot of problems later and I can't say I could just easily change and acquire them on my own as some free choice, and I am prone to excess and compulsions, but eventually it all got much better. One thing that helped a lot was working and having relationships with people with very good discipline and self-regulation. I doubt that any amount of awareness and talking alone would have led to the same result but perhaps some benefit from therapy in a similar way.

I did not need therapy to put these together, honest introspection and some knowledge on development, personality, psychology, the brain and mental health were sufficient. I actually straight dislike many simplistic interpretations the therapy field (at least some schools and their true believers) tend to make because they would grossly misunderstand and misinterpret my life and probably create unnecessary confusion and wrong tracks, if I let it.

Adding...

So why even do therapy? You already got alot of insight into your patterns, perhaps enough understanding of your emotional inner world. This will enable you to make better choices.

It can suck you in, especially the dependency on your T. Of course, you have the dependency otherwise you wouldn't feel that way (it's just intensely magnified in this therapy).

It really can be like opening Pandoras box. In my case, the only reason why I did therapy was because a therapist took the lid off. I did not choose that so had a different dilemma to deal with.

You have mentioned in other posts that you experienced CSA which is a big deal by anyone ‘s standards and worthy of therapy especially in the setting of emotional neglect. I have only experienced neglect, and so I have times where I feel like my situation pales in comparison to others and is therefore not worthy of therapy or attention. I also happen to work with cancer patients and am aware on a daily basis that I have much to be thankful for.

I don’t know. Maybe that’s the question I should really be asking myself.

I think anything is worthy of therapy if a client thinks so, including pure curiosity. Why not? Especially if the client is able to view whatever comes up in therapy with a critical mind and discriminate between what is relevant/meaningful and what is not a good fit. What isn't good IMO is accepting all interpretations and interventions for granted. There are definitely general truths about mental health but also so many individual differences and perceptions, I think it is better not to comply with dogmas and follow something just because "it is supposed to work" in a certain way. People on this forum often say hat some conditions prevent person from being able to see their issues and situations is a realistic way and from different angles; I think that is true and can make a good cause for seeking external input. But if someone does have a critical mental faculty and instincts that tend to lead to useful insights and choices, I think it is better to use them rather than become a blind follower - so many stories on this forum that the latter can be very destructive.

I also think that many mental health issues vary on a broad spectrum, including severity. It is probably always best to view them in their true context, which is the individual experiencing something. For example, I do not relate to many things people discuss on this forum at all, some that appear very common and abundant, at least among the therapy clients posting on this forum. But my own limitations and issues are significant for me and I want them improved even if many/most others see my life as very successful. To expand the cancer analogy - of course that is often a very severe condition that causes a lot of suffering and, ultimately the end of life. But it does not mean that people who "only" have some minor aches, that are not even all the time, would not deserve and benefit from medical interventions. One model from psychology I like, that highlights this, is Maslow's Pyramid... some people persistently struggle on quite basic levels, others have more "garden variety" issues, and for some most human needs are fulfilled on on satisfying levels and they focus more on maximizing their potential and exploring/reaching whatever is possible. I think all of these are worthy of exploration and improvement. I would not let a therapist (or anyone) to pull me down though and entice me to focus on and "treat" stuff that is already highly functional and satisfying, just because their training, usual approach, or own experience is focused that way. It's just a version of meeting someone where they are and, just because we had certain life experiences, it does not mean they are still causing problems or ever have.

Might be a useful exercise. You could even synthesize all the information you know at this point, and list all the reasons, and email it to your T to discuss in session.

What's nice about psychoanalytic therapy is it's usually self-directed, so you can make it about whatever you want it to be about.

People often say this therapy is not practical, but I know firsthand people's views of it are not what it really is about. My therapist friends even get it wrong. In T school, students are taught inaccurate information and old stereotypes. Psychoanalytic therapy can be quite pragmatic and useful. Perhaps with other therapies too, you get out of it what you put into it and or what you want to get out of it.

I don't understand the urge to blame clients for not knowing how therapy works or if therapy doesn't work it is somehow because the client didn't do it right/work hard enough/etc

I don't see anyone here blaming parents or blaming clients.

Maybe I'm missing something or am just not cut out for these types of forums or conversations anymore.

I am curious how you know this, how you believe all of those people get it wrong and you get it right? Not a judgment, just curiosity, especially that there seems to be a sort of pattern on this forum for people who like psychoanalysis, viewing it and posting as though it was some higher form of therapy, which needs higher understanding and ability. But I never really see so outstanding insights provided and people never explain what makes it so great, often claiming it cannot be explained and is somehow mysteriously known by those who are dedicated to it and experience it.

Same. Well my father was I guess slightly more overtly emotionally abusive? There was definitely aggression there. But that's not what's had the biggest impact on me.
I struggle with this a lot.
I know it gets said a lot, but it's helped me to think of the child who went through it. Maybe I think it shouldn't be a big deal, but there was a kid in a lot of pain on a daily basis for many many years, feeling like she was responsible for carrying the weight of the world.
There's the annoying "what would you say if it was any other child" question.
Fairly recently someone I've known for a very long time said that he'd started believing that he was fundamentally "bad" at 7. I don't have any details about his childhood, but that was enough information for me to find it heartbreaking. I couldn't think of any way that feeling could actually be warranted, and any situation that led to a child that age feeling that way means they were failed by the adults in their life that were supposed to protect them and look out for them. No matter what the situation was, there's no way I could be convinced it wasn't a big deal, since it obviously was, or that the child was just overreacting or anything along those lines. Those feelings came from somewhere.
As opposed to myself, where I just prefer to believe that I was actually fundamentally bad and that's why I felt that way.

Realizing how I felt about it being someone else, in practice rather than some abstract hypothetical, was honestly surprising and difficult to deal with.
It did help put things in perspective. I won't say I'm willing to acknowledge my experiences as genuine trauma yet, but it's getting easier to say "wow, that's pretty ****ed up"

-therapist and client blogs and posts (eg Reddit) associating it with Freud, couches, psychosexual stages, and talking endlessly about the past
-schools don't teach it much anymore, so when an intro is given, it's often about Freudian concepts
Freud Is Widely Taught at Universities, Except in the Psychology Department
-those in the field, including personal conversations with my own psychiatrists; see pgs. 3-5 That was Then This is Now
-media, TV
-Woody Allen

I had to laugh as I think it's funny that you see people referring to it as mysterious and special where I see people associating it with outdated concepts and stereotypes.

Definitely true for media and fiction. Where I live, there are all sorts of psychoanalysts and analytic institutes but hard to find an actual Freudian. It's also a region with many wealthy people who can afford psychoanalysis out of pocket even, which I don't think is the case in most places.

I like that article by Shedler and a few of his other writings. He definitely comes across smarter and more of a reformer from his writings though, I met him in person and he was quite a disappointment that way, not very open-minded and often antagonistic for its own sake.

I think the associations with stereotypes and outdated concepts are because the concepts are often discussed in quite dogmatic ways and as though they were universal truths. I am definitely someone who very much believes in the substantial and long-term effects of early life experiences, I work on that sort of thing myself from a biological perspective. But exactly because of that, I dislike when the therapy field imposes truly outdated and simplistic explanation that were proposed 100 years ago or so and they refuse to at least learn a bit modern views and interpretations, including how it all works. There are really not so mysterious explanations these days for how and why therapy can work, the practitioners are often just very poorly educated and/or ignorant, or unable to explain their "art".

What does what anyone else went through, "big deal" or not, have to do with your therapy? My own hasn't been about CSA for many years, but I continued to seek therapy to understand what I wanted for myself better, to improve my relationships, and to feel more present and peaceful in everyday life. It's for self care (because I do hard work) and stress relief and to feel better.

Therapy isn't a zero sum game. Other people who allegedly have suffered or suffer more aren't going to be helped if you quit therapy. My guess is that no one will recover from cancer because you quit therapy, nor will you be more grateful because you've been spared that if you quit therapy.

Is your life the way you want it to be? Do you still hurt? Do you wish for something more than what you have, in terms of meaning, purpose? I'm sure there are many other reasons to pursue therapy, you're already a year and change in. Are you just afraid to continue?

I lived a horrible,hateful,lonely childhood........yes,it absolutely can destroy anyone,I was defined by my childhood. I don’t know how to feel differently,I’ve been to doctors,been put on medicine that never worked,I’ve gone to daily disability groups and I put myself in the hospital to many times to remember,it all failed. I can never escape my memories knowing why I am what I am. I don’t deserve happiness or anything. My being is a waist of space. I am 53,alone and I have nothing. I know I’m responsible for it all,I’m so pitiful

Which concepts are you referring to that are often discussed in dogmatic ways and referred to as universal truths? Or which outdated and simplistic explanations are you talking about?

I really get this. So sorry you have had this experience.

I saw this was your first post on PsychCentral. Welcome.

I would consider emotional neglect to be a type of trauma. I mostly judge this by looking at what I react to and how I react as an adult. My adult trauma memories are all situations where my brain starts telling me no one is listening, people are indifferent to my pain and suffering, and there will be a nasty fallout with bad consequences for me. It's definitely a fight, flight or freeze response. There is fear that I will have nothing. I don't know anyone else who feels like this in my RL.

I know that this is largely wrapped up in parents who are emotional dunces. They love me and did the best they could for me. But I don't feel like, beyond acknowledging my upbringing as the root, talking about that will really help me. People understand smoking is bad and still smoke.

Blaming them won't help me -- on rare occasions, my husband tells me I'm not very receptive to his emotions, and am similar to my parents that way, which makes me feel awful and want to check out. So how would blaming or talking to my parents help? I'm not going to get anything out of them.

Having a husband who is there for me emotionally had healed a lot of my issues. I suspect coming to the mindframe that I can solve issues on my own, that I won't die, will be the next step. I think these emotional neglect issues are harder to solve precisely because you can't categorize them as a past event that's over, the way you can for physical abuse -- emotional neglect doesn't tie itself into the moment, but somewhere else. Where that somewhere else is, I don't know.

I've found many things that are helpful in reducing symptoms, but they've never solved the problem. Would love to read more on how people got to the other side.

Absolutely. I think it is considered a form of emotional abuse. Children really *need* adequate love, attention, nuturing, affection, etc. to develop properly. A baby is better off being physically undernourished but consistently loved by attuned caregivers, than to be warm and well-fed but lacking love. Read about the "monkey love experiments" for something relevant about maternal deprivation and the preference for emotional comfort over meeting hunger needs.

What makes something traumatic is based on the reaction of the person exposed to the trauma, not outside measures of whether specific events 'count' as traumatic enough or whether a parent had 'good intentions' - that's completely irrelevant to the effect it had on the child. If the child was traumatised, if their brain responded in that way, then it was trauma.

Everyone has different psychological makeup, temperaments, coping skills, and susceptibilities, so the exact same event that traumatised me may not have traumatised you, and vice versa.

Jonice Webb has good marketing so it seems she's everywhere because the book is popular, but she's definitely not the spokesperson for emotional neglect.

Sorry for not responding earlier, I have just seen this question. I think this could be a whole different topic for a separate thread if we really wanted to discuss in depth, but I disagree with the notion that some kind of transferential interaction will necessarily emerge in therapy and even if it does, dissecting that will have healing power and that whatever emerges will be a good model/representative of a client's patterns and relationships. I very much reject the idea that merely understanding and bringing things into consciousness can lead to change, as a basic therapeutic approach - if it could, so many self-aware people with mental health issues would resolve them much more quickly. I also do not think it is a good idea to probe into unconscious mechanisms endlessly (or excessively) - they exist for a reason, the brain is wired to have those and they serve important functions. I also heard from too many analysts that deep down clients relate to the T as a parental figure even if they don't think so. And I think the importance of diverse, complex social environment and influences are often minimized (or neglected) by psychoanalysts and everything is too heavily related to parents and immediate family of origin. There are also many things Ts tend to interpret about client behavior (e.g. intense desire for between-sessions contact) that can be way too simplistic, like it is related to unmet childhood needs or attachment. It can be, but can also be many other things.

What I rarely hear from psychoanalysts is that therapy can work (or harm, when that is the case) via the phenomenon of neuroplasticity and associated neurobiological mechanisms, that (like many social interactions and learning processes) it can rewire mechanisms in the brain, ultimately leading to changes in emotions and behavior. Saying that talking, awareness, relationship do the job is an example for what, I think, is very superficial in the era of current knowledge. I would not expect a psychologist to be a neuroscientist but, these days, it is kinda irresponsible to conduct mental health treatment without at least having some basics - I interviewed enough Ts who had no clue. This is one of the things I mean when I say therapy is often claimed to be too mysterious.

I am sure that some of the fans would say that I misunderstand some of these things or am not familiar with the this or that in the literature, but these are literally things I hear way too often (both from Ts and clients). It is possible that part of it is not the concepts but that they are not explained well. I don't really want to go down the rabbit hole with this topic as it's not exactly about OPs points, I am sure some of us on this forum could end up having some intense debates on it without actually getting to much consensus.