[*Beth*]

Hi, I just saw my therapist. Last week she showed me some cute crafts in her office and said, "A client I used to have made them." We talked about how adorable they are (little dolls).

This week I mentioned how I was still thinking about the creativity of the doll-maker. My T and I have often discussed Bipolar Disorder and creativity (I have BD and am an artist).

I said, "Did the client who made the dolls have bipolar disorder?" I asked specifically because I was curious if someone who made something so creative has BD like I do. My T hesitated, then said, "You know...it doesn't feel right to me to disclose that. I'm sorry...but it just doesn't feel right to me."

I am stunned and so hurt. Why did she tell me that a client made them in the first place? I feel like I never want to go back. I'm lost. What should I do? Go back to the clinic and ask to speak with her (it's very close to my home). Call? Cancel for next week and just take time away? Please, can someone offer some insight? I feel like I can't just let this go. Thanks.

[SlumberKitty]

HUGS @BethRags It is difficult that your therapist gave you mixed messages. She told you the dolls were made by a client but then didn't want to say yes or no if the client had bipolar disorder. IMHO she could have just said yes or no and not disclosed if the client had a different disorder. I think you should go to your next scheduled appointment and discuss your feelings about what happened with your therapist. Don't expect her to decide to tell you whether or not the client had bipolar disorder, but express your feelings and how it made you feel. Perhaps take some time to journal in between your session. It may make for some really positive growth to discuss that with her. HUGS Kit

[susannahsays]

The client who gave her the art did not give it to her with the idea that it would be used as a jumping off point to discuss that client's issues with other clients.

As for why she told you, it probably didn't occur to her that you would take it so much to heart and think about it all week. I'd say I also would have personally just assumed that I had no right to ask questions about individual clients, so it never would have occurred to me to ask any follow up questions in a similar situation.

Therapists can disclose things about clients, but it has to be non-identifying. The more information they disclose, the more likely it is that someone could be identified. So I don't think there was anything wrong with her saying a client made the dolls, and I also think it was respecting that client's privacy to not discuss their diagnosis. Can you see there is a vast difference between acknowledging a client made something and discussing case specifics?

I'm sorry the whole situation has been so destabilizing for you. As for what you should do, can you not just wait until your next session to talk to her about it? If not, yes, I would call.

[Salmon77]

I'm sorry it's upsetting to you, but I think your T was right not to tell you another client's diagnosis. There is always the off chance you could meet this person in some random situation, find out they're a dollmaker, and put 2 and 2 together.

It's interesting that you are so hurt by this situation, though, maybe you feel like your T is pushing you away when she refuses to answer something? Or maybe you feel like she isn't supporting you as an artist in some way? I would say, just give it some thought, ask yourself what about this situation hurts so much, and then talk about it at next session.

[*Beth*]

Thank you so much, Kitty. You gave the perfect name to what I feel right now..."mixed message." Honestly, I felt a little bit hurt when my T showed me the dolls and seemed so delighted that her client had made them for her (of course, like most clients I don't like the thought that other clients might be more important to her than I am...shameful, but true).


Then she did this today...a mixed message, yes. I feel just so confused right now. It's as though she clearly cares about that other client more than about me, and it feels like a horrible betrayal.

[susannahsays]

I don't understand where you are getting the idea that she cares more about this other client. Why do you think that?

[*Beth*]

Thanks so much to each of you. Wow, I wish I had some special way to show gratitude besides just saying "thank you."

susannahsays - good point about the client not expecting her diagnosis to be up for examination. My thought on that is that my T might have considered a less direct way to talk to one client about another. As in, "Aren't those cute? Someone I know made them." And not even bring the word "client" into the picture.

I tend to agree with Kitty about the message being mixed. I would never ask about another client - but my T brought it up, which led me to believe I could ask a question about the doll-maker.

Salmon '77 - Yes, I felt like she was pushing me away. Worse, telling me one thing then telling me I was "bad" to ask an honest question about what she told me in the first place.

Okay. So I decided that the healthiest way to handle this extremely upsetting (to me) situation was to call my T. I have never done so (in over a year of therapy). But I guess it was okay, because she called me right back. I told her exactly what had happened. We talked about it, which was quite helpful.

Basically, I do what my mom, and then my husband, did/does to me - expect me to think only of them (my mom was severely mentally ill and I grew up as her caregiver...long story, but I came out really effed up, My husband is also mentally ill...repeat).

First, think only of them, next shame on me for being a human being with human emotions, unless it has to do with caretaking them (my mom or husband). Result being, as soon as I feel a "negative" emotion I want to annihilate myself. I want to die, because I hate myself so badly for having an emotional reaction.

So my homework for the week-end is to be kinder to myself and accept that feeling an emotion is perfectly okay.

It's confusing to me - but I'm willing to try my best.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by susannahsays

I don't understand where you are getting the idea that she cares more about this other client. Why do you think that?

If I knew the answer I probably wouldn't be in therapy

[peacelizard]

Originally Posted by BethRags

Hi, I just saw my therapist. Last week she showed me some cute crafts in her office and said, "A client I used to have made them." We talked about how adorable they are (little dolls).

This week I mentioned how I was still thinking about the creativity of the doll-maker. My T and I have often discussed Bipolar Disorder and creativity (I have BD and am an artist).

I said, "Did the client who made the dolls have bipolar disorder?" I asked specifically because I was curious if someone who made something so creative has BD like I do. My T hesitated, then said, "You know...it doesn't feel right to me to disclose that. I'm sorry...but it just doesn't feel right to me."

I am stunned and so hurt. Why did she tell me that a client made them in the first place? I feel like I never want to go back. I'm lost. What should I do? Go back to the clinic and ask to speak with her (it's very close to my home). Call? Cancel for next week and just take time away? Please, can someone offer some insight? I feel like I can't just let this go. Thanks.

Maybe I'm clueless, but I don't get why that would upset you so much. Even if she started to tell you something, you have no right to another client/patient diagnosis and instead of blowing it out of proportion just respect it and leave it at that, the same way it would be if roles were reversed

I think she absolutely done the right thing in nit disclosing.
T has a sketch of her old hse on the wall.
I asked who done that and she just said "sometime who use to see her". The simple fact it was in the therapy space in her hse told me it wanother client. Perhaps a leaving gesture.
I wrote never expect T to disclose more that what she did.

[peacelizard]

Yup. If there's a common meeting area for that therapist's patients or therapists' patients if it's a group practice, it's bound to happen.

That's what happened when my therapist eluded to a client of his that was either right before or after me. He didn't give me enough information to figure it out immediately, but I felt like if I ever ran into this person I'd definitely know who they were. And sure enough, one day I came in and was waiting in the outer office area for my therapist to call me back to his individual office and I immediately recognized him as he was walking down the hall.

He was a local politician for something like two decades in the town I grew up in and I think he recognized me too because, even now, I run into him once or twice a week early in the morning at Starbucks when he's with a few other people.

For me, it's not a big deal. I mind my own business and respect confidentiality; plus, I work in the field, so I just get it anyway. I just hope I didn't make him uncomfortable. I even told my therapist to tell him he has nothing to worry about — that I'd never say a word to anyone.

[sophiebunny]

I would be uncomfortable if she gave me another client's diagnosis. My thought would jump to "if she's talking about this client what is she saying about me". I don't think it's a privacy breach to say where an item came from. It is a breach to get into diagnosis.

[ScarletPimpernel]

I don't think your T has done anything wrong. Stating that something was made by a client is fine. I'm sure the client was asked first if it was okay if it was displayed. As far as disclosing said clients diagnosis, that's none of your business (i.e. makes no difference to you and your therapy), and is confidential. Your T did the right thing by not telling you.

I have given and made a lot of things for T and L. Right now, L has two things I've given her displayed in her office: a vase I had my dad make for her and little fairy in one of her plant pots. She wanted me to put a little of myself in there so it could be my space too. I would be fine if someone asked her who gave those things to her, and she said a clients. I would be devastated if she told someone my diagnosis.

And it's kind of judgmental to assume that the client had BD. I have BPD and consider myself very creative within my own skillsets. Creativity doesn't mean that a person has BD.

[Amyjay]

I don't think your T has done anything glaringly wrong and I don't think you have done anything wrong. If anything T was probably feeling bad herself about disclosing that the dolls were made by another client, after realizing that her revealing that information could potentially breached client confidentiality.
I can understand your shame (shame on me also for having human emotions!) but you don't need it. Both you and T are just going about the business of being human, which is sometimes very messy and very confusing, but ultimately both of you have only had a very minor mis-step on the path, and not even come anywhere close to tumbling into the yawning abyss of unforgivable human error.
Carry on, human!

[Lonelyinmyheart]

Beth, I want to first say that I would feel exactly as you do. It would hurt that T wouldn't tell me. It would make me feel pushed out, rejected, etc, as well. But coming from your T;s perspective, I think she was right to not disclose anything personal about a client of hers, such as her diagnosis. I'm sure she would be similarly protective of you. It is a good thing, but feels awful to be on the other end of it.

[Rive.]

It's different saying 'a client made X' to disclosing said client's diagnosis to other clients. That is a breach of confidentiality/ethics.

Just as your T is not 'allowed' to share your diagnosis with anyone, she is respecting others' privacy and confidentiality.

I don't see why you would consider cancelling or taking time away around this issue. This is a bit extreme. After all, she didn't do anything 'wrong'. I would however, discuss your strong reaction and/or assumptions with her.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by peacelizard

Maybe I'm clueless, but I don't get why that would upset you so much. Even if she started to tell you something, you have no right to another client/patient diagnosis and instead of blowing it out of proportion just respect it and leave it at that, the same way it would be if roles were reversed

I didn't blow it out of proportion for me. With all respect, you don't know my history.

[*Beth*]

I didn't post this thread for my reaction to be judged; I posted it by stating my reaction (whether anyone agreed or not) and asking for opinions on what to do considering that I was extremely upset. I did not start this post for anyone to debate how I felt.

How I feel about a situation is not helped by others judging me when my personal background is unknown, and I do not in any way find support in being told my feelings were wrong.

Thanks for the feedback. I'm feeling really shaky right now. There's no need to continue this thread.

[ArtleyWilkins]

You did ask for input and what most are simply saying is that your therapist has the duty to not disclose another client’s diagnosis. I seems like that is all people are saying, probably to help you maybe see this in a different, more positive light. I don’t think anyone had the intent to be judgmental, just realistic about the situation.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by ArtleyWilkins

You did ask for input and what most are simply saying is that your therapist has the duty to not disclose another client’s diagnosis. I seems like that is all people are saying, probably to help you maybe see this in a different, more positive light. I don’t think anyone had the intent to be judgmental, just realistic about the situation.

Thank you. I will consider that.

[guilloche]

Hey BethRags,

I totally get it, and I would have felt exactly the same way! *hugs*. For me, I would have felt like I had done something wrong by asking, T's response would have felt like a rebuke. I'm super sensitive to stuff like this, so even a tiny "correction" can make me feel really awful, and it's just a downward spiral from there.

I also would have been confused and felt a little mislead about T bringing it up (thus seeming open to questions) only to shut me down. It feels like a trap!

Glad you were able to talk to her about it. From an objective standpoint, I don't think she meant that you did anything wrong, I think her response was more about her and her previous client than about the rightness/wrongness of your question.

But, I also think it's annoying when Ts bring up that previous clients gave them stuff that you can see in their office, and this is making me realize why it's a bad idea. It sort of brings another person into the room, which doesn't seem good for therapy. I think it can also create the feeling that you're not good enough as a client... my last T had this gorgeous huge painting in her office, it was *beautiful*. When I commented, she told me that a previous client gave it to her.

OK, I get that people are creative and want to make things to thank their Ts, but doesn't this set up the expectation that her "good" clients give her (impressive!) gifts - and that if I don't give her anything, I'm a terrible client? (She also had all kinds of bags of gifts visible during the holidays, that I assume her happy, well-adjusted, not-broken-like-me clients brought her!)

Anyway, just wanted to say that I can totally relate, and I don't think you actually did anything wrong. And, there's probably a lot of good stuff buried in this interaction, if you want to work through it, to help you figure out more about how your brain is working.

And also, thanks for posting... it helps to see something that is a fairly typical response for me in some one else!

[atisketatasket]

Leaving aside the other client (I didn’t think you were making too much of it, fwiw), if you still want to know if someone with bipolar can be creative, absolutely yes. Google bipolar and creativity or something like that and you’ll get a lot of examples, plus research links.

ETA: so if you’re interested in doing something creative, I would say go for it.

[susannahsays]

Originally Posted by BethRags

First, think only of them, next shame on me for being a human being with human emotions, unless it has to do with caretaking them (my mom or husband). Result being, as soon as I feel a "negative" emotion I want to annihilate myself. I want to die, because I hate myself so badly for having an emotional reaction.

Ugh. Relate to this. It's miserable. And trying to be "kinder to myself" always seems to backfire somehow.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by guilloche

Hey BethRags,

I totally get it, and I would have felt exactly the same way! *hugs*. For me, I would have felt like I had done something wrong by asking, T's response would have felt like a rebuke. I'm super sensitive to stuff like this, so even a tiny "correction" can make me feel really awful, and it's just a downward spiral from there.

Thank you, guilloche. I felt terribly ashamed for having asked her if the client has BD. To me, her response absolutely felt like a rebuke. I, too, am miserably sensitive to stuff like this.

I also would have been confused and felt a little mislead about T bringing it up (thus seeming open to questions) only to shut me down. It feels like a trap!

I was very confused. By telling me that her client had made the dolls, it seemed to me that - while she certainly should not give me the client's name or very personal details - I thought it would be okay just to know if the client has BD.

The main reason I asked was because I had just mentioned to my T that it would be so valuable to attend a group with other people who have bipolar disorder. My T said that would be really good, and that she would definitely be up for leading such a group. The problem, she said, was that there aren't many with BD at the clinic at this time; probably not enough to start a group. That was when I asked if the doll-maker has BD. My thought was, although she was a former client, perhaps my T could reach out to her if there's a support group. Then my T shut me down...the whole exchange was confusing to me, and very hurtful.

Glad you were able to talk to her about it. From an objective standpoint, I don't think she meant that you did anything wrong, I think her response was more about her and her previous client than about the rightness/wrongness of your question.

During my phone call with her, she assured me several times that she hadn't meant to sound stern when she replied to me and exactly what you've said - that in her mind she was thinking about how much to disclose about her client and struggling with whether to answer my question, or not. So she came across as harsh.

But, I also think it's annoying when Ts bring up that previous clients gave them stuff that you can see in their office, and this is making me realize why it's a bad idea.

It is. Hands down, it is not a good idea.

It sort of brings another person into the room, which doesn't seem good for therapy.

Exactly. It feels creepy. Invasive.

I think it can also create the feeling that you're not good enough as a client... my last T had this gorgeous huge painting in her office, it was *beautiful*. When I commented, she told me that a previous client gave it to her.

Ugh. That feels awful for me just to hear about.

OK, I get that people are creative and want to make things to thank their Ts, but doesn't this set up the expectation that her "good" clients give her (impressive!) gifts - and that if I don't give her anything, I'm a terrible client? (She also had all kinds of bags of gifts visible during the holidays, that I assume her happy, well-adjusted, not-broken-like-me clients brought her!)

Oh, wow. What a painful experience for you. That is just not right, in any way.

Many years ago I saw a psychologist who made it clear from the start that he would not accept gifts of any kind from clients. Cards were okay (but he never displayed them in his office). At the time I thought it was kind of odd that he didn't accept clients' gifts - but now I can see why he didn't.

Anyway, just wanted to say that I can totally relate, and I don't think you actually did anything wrong. And, there's probably a lot of good stuff buried in this interaction, if you want to work through it, to help you figure out more about how your brain is working.

Thank you for your kind support. And yes - the great thing about this is that I can definitely use it as an experience to learn about myself. I feel sure that my therapist feels the same way.

And also, thanks for posting... it helps to see something that is a fairly typical response for me in some one else!

You are so welcome

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by atisketatasket

Leaving aside the other client (I didn’t think you were making too much of it, fwiw), if you still want to know if someone with bipolar can be creative, absolutely yes. Google bipolar and creativity or something like that and you’ll get a lot of examples, plus research links.

ETA: so if you’re interested in doing something creative, I would say go for it.

Thank you, att. I'm an artist...which made the whole exchange more complicated for me.