I'm in a bad place

I really hope your T responds to your text and in a way that is helpful. I understand having obsessions about women as I've been the same for years but I have to say that my obsessions are not quite as all consuming as they used to be, if that helps at all. Having a good therapist to work through the feelings with is essential. If your T terminates you (and I hope she doesn't) it shows she sadly just isn't the right T to cope with this and many Ts aren't. It takes a very strong, self-aware and boundaried t to deal with this kind of stuff, preferably one that is trained extensively in trauma work, as obsessions like these are usually rooted in trauma. There are such ts out there and the feelings can get easier as you start to unravel them, but you need someone safe to work with.

In that case, it is probably not worth ending it with her because of the obsession since it would just shift the problem, especially given what you said, that she is a good T for you. Stories like this always remind me of the substance addiction I had - I even ended up in a professional field studying addiction, but learning everything there is about how addiction works never helped me quit while I was in it. It helped tremendously after quitting though, to remain sober, because I knew what sorts of things put me at the risk of relapse and what things in my lifestyle didn't serve me well, just created other addictive and obsessive patterns and served as avoidance.

I find the comment about obsessions being distractions from healthier things and what should really be addressed very interesting, also relevant to myself. I have a similar tendency and can see it very clearly at this point of life that it is mostly a form of psychological avoidance. Overfill your mind with something, it will keep away the anxiety about more serious and important things in the moment. Unfortunately, it never truly works beyond the moment, for me it just makes my anxiety worse because it adds procrastination to the mix and poor discipline. When it comes to people, I explored obsessions in my youth several times by diving into the relationships directly, instead of just viewing and obsessing from a distance. That was very useful for me and not something one can do in therapy. Well, some people do it, but that always ends badly. I almost always found that the reality never stood up to my imagination, often it didn't even match it. But it was often hard to tell apart these kinds of fantasies from real potential when I was young. I didn't have bad relationships due to it, per se, but many complicated ones. I actually don't like to call my past experiences attachment because they were not attachment to a particular person - that's why the person can be replaced quite easily. It's more attachment to an inner fantasy world while avoiding the real deal. And it reinforces itself when we avoid real, satisfying, involved relationships... it creates a lacking and void... which is filled with fantasy and obsession. I often felt puzzled at the emptiness and void feelings many people describe because, I thought, I never felt that way. But probably because I filled mine with fantasies and weird experiences, way too much intensity.

I haven't experienced similar for several years now and it is a relief, but sometimes still feel the pull and the remnants of the current. What made the difference? Getting more involved in my real life and dealing with things more effectively, not avoiding and escaping. Also just normal aging, I think (I am 45). I think the avoidance creates deprivation - of course we obsess then. Not sure if any of this strikes a chord with you, just wanted to share in case it sounds familiar to you or anyone here. Also want to add that my version of this has nothing to do with trauma, there is no trauma in my history that could explain it that way. It's more anxiety-related avoidance, a tendency for not wanting to deal with certain things when I don't have the motivation, and choosing to engage in what feels more stimulating and interesting in the moment. Looking up things about people can feel quite interesting and stimulating in the moment, sometimes useful, but can be completely a waste of time as well.

I wanted to let you know that when I read this, I thought to myself, "That's brutal".

Sounds like you need to mourn whatever happened to you in the first place, so you can stop repeating the pattern.

I know - that and five bucks will get you pumpkin spice vente latte.

Thank you for this!!!! I can really relate to you. I, too, had a substance addiction (2.5 years sober!) I'm sure it's all connected somehow

She responded. I still don't have a good sense of whether or not she is going to terminate me when I see her on Tuesday. I have a sick feeling she is going to terminate, but doesn't want to tell me the bad news in a text because she knows I don't have healthy emotional reactions to bad things. So, she wrote a vague response instead. I've asked her in the past about termination, and in the past (via text) she has said "I'm not going to terminate. We are going to get through this." This time, she didn't do that. It went like this:

My text to her:
"I'd like to know if you are planning to terminate on Tuesday or start the termination process, in which case I'd really like to know ahead of time so I can prepare myself. I don't want you to worry about my reaction, I just really need to know now. Thanks, I appreciate it."

Her response:
"We have to discuss how to move forward together. We'll discuss in session."

What do you guys think? I feel like she is sugar-coating termination until I see her face to face. Like I said, she has flat out in the past said she wasn't going to terminate me, and she didn't do that this time.

Please tell me what you guys think.

I think her saying "move forward" suggests that she's not going to terminate. But I also understand why you're scared. Hugs...

"We have to discuss how to move forward together." - To me, this sounds more like actually moving forward together rather than separately. But I agree, it is not straightforward.

Maybe she wants you to sit with this discomfort for a while, to think about how an obsession like this can affect your relationships, instead of just saying basically it's fine and there won't be negative consequences. In a way, if you have an addiction-like pattern, it may not be bad to be forced to tolerate negative feelings and anxiety rather than just getting an instant, superficial gratification that all is okay. It can also be that the T is upset about it and gives you a bit of passive aggressive reaction. In any case, I don't think anyone can really tell what will happen. I would definitely prepare for discussing what makes you do all the searching though, what this preoccupation means to you. Again, I very much believe there is nothing objectively wrong about looking for information online about anyone as long as you don't break into anything, do illegal things, or use fake identities to fool people. But it can still affect relationships, don't know what your experiences have been with other people. This is why I would never tell anyone, I think it is the telling that's actually intrusive, not the looking on the public web. But maybe it's good material for therapy, I don't know. I actually always have a hard time believing that many Ts don't look up clients they find interesting in a similar way, I know I would have a hard time inhibiting myself if I am curious.

I agree. I would put money on, she is not going to let you stonewall her again? Meaning, THIS time you ARE going to talk about it. Not just, she lets you off the hook and you dont deal with it until the next time you want a crisis.

Imo, it seems like she is firmly holding her boundary, ‘We’ll discuss in session’ and you are filling in that it means something negative on your own.

I do understand your fear, though.

Her adding, ‘We have to discuss how to move forward together..’ seems as if she is, again, repeating her boundary that she wants to discuss this topic face-to-face and not in text....and the ‘move forward’ phrase seems positive to me.

I would suspect that she isn't going to terminate with you based on the "move forward" comment. But she might set more boundaries and she will probably express her feelings toward you.

She might be annoyed about you looking stuff up about her. And she might feel uncomfortable and weird. But she might be more worried about how this obsession is affecting you and she might want to talk about that.

I can totally understand how difficult this is. The therapy relationship is weird...helpful in a lot of ways and not great in others. It's so unequal.

That response would both annoy and worry me more. It's times like this that I wish a therapist would give a straight answer. I know mine would thankfully, but I remember instances like these with therapists who don't and it hurts. I wish they would just give a human empathic response at such times. Ugh. Sorry, I guess this brings things up for me. I really hope your T isn't going to terminate and that you feel supported by her when you see her.

Perhaps she can't give you a straightforward or reassuring response because she doesn't know what will happen either. If she wants to have a discussion which is genuinely mutual or negotiated then she can't describe what the outcome will be at this stage. It sounds as if she will want to (re)assert some boundaries around your perceived intrusions into her life. If you can agree the boundaries, it will be possible for you to continue working together. If it is not possible to agree, termination might be a solution. Either way, it is not up to her alone to decide at this stage. That leaves you in this painful place of insecurity and lack of clarity, but maybe there is no way to avoid that.

Good point, it may depend on how the conversation goes. Like the T might say, "If you agree to stop looking for me and my wife on Facebook, then we can continue."

Do you guys think a T could think it's that simple? IMO if they did, they would have no clue how obsessions work and how to resolve them effectively. If an ultimatum like that was sufficient, there probably would be no or very few people struggling with obsessions and addictions - usually these people are already desperate to stop but can't without a great deal of complex changes. People break their own resolutions as well, let alone an external demand.

Well, I'd hope she wouldn't think it was that simple, but it's hard to say. I don't think my T really gets it (so I just don't tell him stuff I've looked at anymore). I guess it depends on how you talk about it. Like if you tell her, "I feel this has become an obsession--I need help to stop" that might make it more clear.

I wasn't describing an ultimatum, quite the opposite actually - I was imaging a discussion where both therapist and OP agree mutual boundaries, not where OP just agrees to what the therapist sets out. OP should be encouraged to describe her boundaries and whether the relationship is sustainable for her.

Isn't part of this the therapist's responsibility? I mean, in terms of adjusting privacy settings on facebook and such like. My T is pretty open and I have looked at her page a few times (not that I'd ever tell her) but I would think if she didn't want me viewing anything all she has to do is adjust her settings. It's easy enough to do. I can understand a T feeling violated if they weren't aware of what a client could find out about them, but once they do know, they can and should take their own steps to manage this if they so choose, rather than put all the blame on the client. Hopefully this is what the OP and T can work out together rather than apportioning blame anywhere. In this day and age it's so easy to cross boundaries.

That's a good point. I think it's a big part of why my T isn't on social media (he's said he's not on it--though I suppose he could be and just well-hidden). I mean, he's on LinkedIn but that doesn't really count. There are settings in Facebook where you can either not allow people to tag you in photos or have to approve them first.

When I found out the one thing about my T, which was something on a public site (not social media and not like MyLife or one of those search things), he was at first bothered, then was like, "Well, I guess it is part of my public life, so it's OK."

Certainly many people (including Ts) don't truly get these things beyond what they learned about them. I understand because the out of control part that often defies every rational consideration and self-interest is indeed hard to imagine if one has not experienced it directly. But it's similar for many other mental health conditions, even something as "trivial" as depression, how these things affect people's choices and functioning. I know I do not truly get quite a few of them either as far as truly being able to imagine from the inside, and you're right that in such situations people often minimize, dismiss or freak out.

What I personally don't like in how many Ts approach obsessions and addictions is being stuck in the old dogmas and simplistic explanations. For example, they sometimes think it's enough treatment to just go and talk about it, to figure out the causes. One of mine, who actually claimed to be an expert in these things, approached it like that and even discouraged me to seek help outside of therapy. "Just come and talk." I could have killed myself talking about it endlessly. Fortunately, more and more clinicians are now interested in expanding their horizons with 21st century knowledge, but many still do not really apply it in their practices or encourage clients to develop a more complex set of tools for change. And yes, these things are usually very hard to talk about, jut like gross traumas, because of the associated shame. So if a T approaches it with boundary setting, that can easily validate the clients' shameful feelings, that they do wrong. The nature of obsessions is really not being able to apply boundaries in a realistic and healthy way. It is often compared to light switches where something in the mechanics goes wrong - we may wish/expect it to work properly all the way we want, but it won't just happen magically. I think many people who suffer these know exactly what it should be like, just unable to stick to it. IMO, the true solutions are usually outside of the actual area where the obsession manifests, i.e. in this case likely in many places in OPs life, not so much in the therapy relationship. Of course that can be useful part f the discussion, I just hope it goes much further, including into practical considerations for how exactly to resist urges and change behavior. As far as the Ts freaking - I think it is absolutely their responsibility to protect their privacy in any way they want, or to accept the fact that clients will look at the info. I am pretty sure it's not only OP even just with this one T, this is super common.

When is your session? I am so sorry you have to wait in this suspended state of anxiety. I am glad the idea of limermece was of help. A female psychologist wrote a memoir last year about how she just lost it in her 30's and stalked this guy for real. You have not done anything very bad here like that, and you are shaming yourself so much it is hard to see that you need any more reprimanding by your T. I hope your T can muster some curiosity about you and your history with this, and then role up her selves to help you figure it all out. I agree with others that "move forward together" sounds like she isnt definitely going to terminate you, but she is in no mood to spoon you reassurance without seeing you face to face?

at this point, even I am in suspense vicariously. I think on PC we've seen therapists make a range od decisions with this one situation. I, like most, am hoping your T turns out to be one of the sturdy, steady ones devoted to your care, and even intrigued by all this enough to dig into the why's with you.

Do you have any idea what you might be evading by giving this gift of your total attention to others? I say gift bc I love human analytical thinking, intelligence, attentiveness - the poet Yeats calls it our "brightening glance". We all know your T probably isn't worthy of all the focus you give her, and that it is about something in you, not something in her. Even if she experiences it as intrusive , you haven't hurt her . I do worry if she terminates you, it will hurt you, you will have hurt yourself. I am not sure if it is by obsessing or by not using the social skill of concealing the obsessing, but the core issue definitely is the sum-total of life-energy that get spent on someone not reciprocating at the same intensity.

My relationship with my T preoccupies me more than any other relationship. I don't know that it is obsession, but it might be since I am more interested in him than in my SO or anyone in my real life at this point. I dont have this problem typically, and have never been obsessive before. This is also my first time in therapy ( year 4). I gradually realized it is because while I trust Dr. M as psychologist and we have made amazing concrete strides together working on what he calls Capital Trauma (csa), I do not always trust him as a person, a human in real life. This combination attracts the kind of hypervigilance I demonstrated as a tiny kid for the perpetrator . So it is a mess- either an unhealthy trauma bond with my T replicating childhood or a really productive working through that is now in its mid arc and absorbing like good, creative work is absorbing. My T taught me how to vanquish dissociation as a defense, but he lies like a champion , smoothly, right to my face, and he finally admitted this and apologized. He is there for me with such loyalty, teaching object constancy, growing along with me and saying how much he cares, but then he refused listen that he was overcharging for sessions suddenly, and now owes me a few thousand dollars back that I can't afford to be without (either bc the insurance company messed up and he didnt notice/ dismissed my concerns too fast or bc he messed up but was too-cool to believe he could until now the insurance company called it out. . This mix of adoration / skepticism keeps me riveted to his every move and communication. I think about him much more than if I just trusted him, and i have searched and found out much about him once I realized he had told me a flat out lie in year one. I love my T deeply, I recognize his excellence of fit for me in terms of our intellectual compatibility , but i am just not sure who he is in terms of his character or real personality. Because of my history, I have chosen wisely in my romantic relationships soI am surprised to find myself here, at once deeply loving and deeply doubting a psychologist. wtf, therapy!!

I interpreted this as "we have to discuss together" not "move forward together." As in, "we need to buy apples at the store together." The placement of the word 'together' is throwing me off.

Knowing her, I have a feeling this is her way of saying that she won't terminate me without interaction first- and that we need to discuss together if our time together is over. So, it'll seem like a 'mutual' decision to terminate, even though it's really not. When she says "we'll discuss in session," that leads me to believe she wants to discuss the reasons to terminate in person, rather than send me a blanket "yes, we're terminating" over text.

I feel like an idiot for being so upset over this

I just don't think she is really familiar with how privacy settings work. This obsession started years ago when I admitted to stalking her facebook page. She then told me she had no idea it was public. A couple of days later it was private and I could never look at it again.

Her wife's page is private too. The picture I saw on facebook was a picture her wife was tagged in by a friend of theirs who had a public page. There is no way I would even know to look at that person's page except I connected the dots years ago and figured out this person was friends with my T and her wife, so I've been stalking HER page now, in hopes she would post something about my T or her wife. And she did. First time in forever. I'm sure if my T knew how easily I know how to navigate Facebook (or even really understood how Facebook works), she would have found a way to make sure those tags stayed private.

In fact, I know that. I didn't even tell her how I knew her wife was pregnant, but I guess she figured it out because her wife is no longer tagged in that photo (even though the photo is still public). How mortifying That means she must have had a conversation with her wife and asked her wife to untag herself. I don't even want to know how that conversation went

I think she is doing her due diligence to keep her info private... she just probably never suspected I would look for tags of her wife by a friend. That's two degrees removed from her. I'm such a freak

Our T's can be huge figures in our lives, and it is actually a good sign about you that you are bonded and care . Don't grovel. It is her JOB to work with you. If you didnt struggle, you wouldn't pay her to work through all this with you. Go in there and tell her you are glad this came up, this is your core issue, and you can't wait to get to work untangling it and using that same energy in a different way that elevates and enriches your own life. If you feel like an idiot, then that is partly her.

Some of us give our T's way too much power. I do to mine. However, this summer I broke out and showed both of us I was stronger than expected ( and so did LT with her T). Maybe she will see you with new eyes, if you dont apologize too much for struggling with something that is a legitimate symptom of both attachment disorders and trauma?

Also, feel free to ignore this point bc I am more fired up than usual about T's sitting in judgement of their patients rather than getting to work helping them.

I hope the discussion goes well and you can mutually put some boundaries in place that are workable for both of you, allowing you to continue working together if that is what you desire.

It may be that it is time to consider a different therapist if continuing with her has become less effective because it has opened up such an obsession that you've lost focus on your own self in your therapy, but perhaps now that you have opened up about this, it might squelch that impulsive desire a bit.

It also may be that she was okay with managing the behaviors when it only involved herself and her wife, but in realizing your behaviors have reached out into a wider range of friends -- and the additional issue of a child eventually being part of the mix -- those behaviors may have crossed a line that is much harder to manage on her end and less acceptable.

I hope the discussion is open and thorough, and that whatever is decided is a solution that works best for all involved.